2022 AFL Season

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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:01 am

whufc wrote:Once again comparing to rugby I think if a player has a genuine concern about an interpretation or rule utilise the captain to go and have a chat to the umpires for clarification. This happens in union between penalties, obviously that time doesn't exist in aussie rules so imo the captain should be allowed to go and chat to the umpires at quarter time if they have a genuine concern. I think a genuine discussion at a period the game is stopped between a figure head and umpire is pretty healthy. In union the referee often uses it as an oppurtunity to pass a message back to the players through the captain...….its a two way streak.

Like trader said trying to have those discussions whilst the umpire is trying to enforce the stand rule, make sure a player is over the mark, call the millisecond a player plays on etc is not the time to discuss what 90% of the time is a player who actually has seen the incident incorrectly.

You can't really compare the two codes, one is stop start and the other flows, one has a billion rules and the other not a great deal of rules that rely on interpretation.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:03 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:I didn't realise umpire abuse and grown men throwing the dummy out of the cot was actually part of the game. The 'game' is better for players getting on with doing what their paid do.....play the game.

Go and watch a low grade ammo's game.


:lol: :lol:

Let me guess the games gone bloody soft...….back in my day!!!

Funnily enough it is normally the lowest division where umpire abuse is the most rife.

When i ran social soccer/netball comps for a living it was generally the lowest ranked sides who were the biggest sooks and experts on umpiring.

Funnily enough though for all the experts we had we never seemed to see many go and ply their trade of expertise.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:06 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:Once again comparing to rugby I think if a player has a genuine concern about an interpretation or rule utilise the captain to go and have a chat to the umpires for clarification. This happens in union between penalties, obviously that time doesn't exist in aussie rules so imo the captain should be allowed to go and chat to the umpires at quarter time if they have a genuine concern. I think a genuine discussion at a period the game is stopped between a figure head and umpire is pretty healthy. In union the referee often uses it as an oppurtunity to pass a message back to the players through the captain...….its a two way streak.

Like trader said trying to have those discussions whilst the umpire is trying to enforce the stand rule, make sure a player is over the mark, call the millisecond a player plays on etc is not the time to discuss what 90% of the time is a player who actually has seen the incident incorrectly.

You can't really compare the two codes, one is stop start and the other flows, one has a billion rules and the other not a great deal of rules that rely on interpretation.


Agree the codes are different but the concept of the captain being able to have a discussion with the umpire to raise concerns is one that could be adapted and utilised better in the AFL eg at quarter time breaks etc.

Interestingly as well prior to a game of union the referee comes into the changes room and will explain to the entire team some of his interpretations, areas of focus etc before the game, his expectations. Its nothing ground breaking but I always felt it started the relationship on the right foot, it was also an oppurtunity for all players to ask any questions or queries they had.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby gadj1976 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:09 am

And... Hawkins doesn't get a fine for his dive. What a friggen joke.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:10 am

gadj1976 wrote:And... Hawkins doesn't get a fine for his dive. What a friggen joke.


Made a pretty decent meme though so benefit of the doubt for him. :lol:
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:17 am

whufc wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:Once again comparing to rugby I think if a player has a genuine concern about an interpretation or rule utilise the captain to go and have a chat to the umpires for clarification. This happens in union between penalties, obviously that time doesn't exist in aussie rules so imo the captain should be allowed to go and chat to the umpires at quarter time if they have a genuine concern. I think a genuine discussion at a period the game is stopped between a figure head and umpire is pretty healthy. In union the referee often uses it as an oppurtunity to pass a message back to the players through the captain...….its a two way streak.

Like trader said trying to have those discussions whilst the umpire is trying to enforce the stand rule, make sure a player is over the mark, call the millisecond a player plays on etc is not the time to discuss what 90% of the time is a player who actually has seen the incident incorrectly.

You can't really compare the two codes, one is stop start and the other flows, one has a billion rules and the other not a great deal of rules that rely on interpretation.


A: Agree the codes are different but the concept of the captain being able to have a discussion with the umpire to raise concerns is one that could be adapted and utilised better in the AFL eg at quarter time breaks etc.

B: Interestingly as well prior to a game of union the referee comes into the changes room and will explain to the entire team some of his interpretations, areas of focus etc before the game, his expectations. Its nothing ground breaking but I always felt it started the relationship on the right foot, it was also an oppurtunity for all players to ask any questions or queries they had.


A: I'm sure the AFL umpire supervisor would be doing this to comply with the "actual" laws of the game and how each umpire is travelling, a player will always have a biased opinion, every time the umpire blows his whistle half the people there don't like him regardless of the call being correct or not, no need for the captain to bother at that level, community level is fine though IMO.
How many times do you watch a neutral game and think "Gee, Richmond are getting a decent ride", then after a break the other team gets a few soft ones to even it up a bit? They must've been told.

B: I'm sure that doesn't happen at any elite level.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby gadj1976 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:17 am

Trader wrote:
If you need someone to explain to you the rules of the game, as your coach during the week.

Making the mistake is human.
Abusing someone else when you perceive they have made a mistake isn’t human, it’s being a bully.

Accept the decision, get on with the game and if you still think it was the wrong decision, on Monday morning ask your club to contact the AFL and seek clarification then.

Abusing or simply querying the umpires mid game isn’t going to get him to change his decision, so accept it and move on.


You keep going back to abuse! This isn't what we're talking about.

For your first comment, yep, sometimes you do for your own instantaneous benefit so you don't do it again.

The comment about asking the AFL for clarification is farcical. Sorry.

And finally for me - this argument about players making mistakes really grates on me. The ball is an oval shaped ball that doesn't bounce in a straight line. Disposing of it is an imperfect exercise 99% of the time. It's uncertain, it's dynamic and hence why we love the sport.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby The Bedge » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:25 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:B: I'm sure that doesn't happen at any elite level.

It happens at AFL level - umpires visit each side before the game and personally wish each player best of luck and introduce themselves, and if required reinforce an area of focus for the game eg deliberate out of bounds.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:29 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:Once again comparing to rugby I think if a player has a genuine concern about an interpretation or rule utilise the captain to go and have a chat to the umpires for clarification. This happens in union between penalties, obviously that time doesn't exist in aussie rules so imo the captain should be allowed to go and chat to the umpires at quarter time if they have a genuine concern. I think a genuine discussion at a period the game is stopped between a figure head and umpire is pretty healthy. In union the referee often uses it as an oppurtunity to pass a message back to the players through the captain...….its a two way streak.

Like trader said trying to have those discussions whilst the umpire is trying to enforce the stand rule, make sure a player is over the mark, call the millisecond a player plays on etc is not the time to discuss what 90% of the time is a player who actually has seen the incident incorrectly.

You can't really compare the two codes, one is stop start and the other flows, one has a billion rules and the other not a great deal of rules that rely on interpretation.


A: Agree the codes are different but the concept of the captain being able to have a discussion with the umpire to raise concerns is one that could be adapted and utilised better in the AFL eg at quarter time breaks etc.

B: Interestingly as well prior to a game of union the referee comes into the changes room and will explain to the entire team some of his interpretations, areas of focus etc before the game, his expectations. Its nothing ground breaking but I always felt it started the relationship on the right foot, it was also an oppurtunity for all players to ask any questions or queries they had.


A: I'm sure the AFL umpire supervisor would be doing this to comply with the "actual" laws of the game and how each umpire is travelling, a player will always have a biased opinion, every time the umpire blows his whistle half the people there don't like him regardless of the call being correct or not, no need for the captain to bother at that level, community level is fine though IMO.
How many times do you watch a neutral game and think "Gee, Richmond are getting a decent ride", then after a break the other team gets a few soft ones to even it up a bit? They must've been told.

B: I'm sure that doesn't happen at any elite level.


B: happens in the highest level of rugby, definitely needed in a sport like union because of all the rules but im sure the concept could work in the AFL as well
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:40 am

whufc wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:I didn't realise umpire abuse and grown men throwing the dummy out of the cot was actually part of the game. The 'game' is better for players getting on with doing what their paid do.....play the game.

Go and watch a low grade ammo's game.


:lol: :lol:

Let me guess the games gone bloody soft...….back in my day!!!



Not at all, I think people sook more and find excuses for their own poor performances or judgements.

I was umpiring a game a while back and someone kept laying late bumps so I kept downfielding him, some time during the 3rd quarter I did it again some dude behind me called out "You're shit umpire", I looked around and knew who said it but had no proof so I replied "Yeah mate, and your two kicks have gone straight to the opposition".

The game has lost the banter, the world has in general.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:51 am

Yeah we had the 'game has gone soft types' and then like you said the one who blames everything including their own performance on the ref/umpire.

Worst part about a social comp was you generally only had a couple of refs so pretty quickly they built a relationship/reporte with that refs. It tended to either be a great one or an absolute horrible one. Both players and refs often had premeditated ideas of one another before a game started because they were reffing/playing each other over 20 times a year.

Playing soccer I was a ref abuser/critise (not overly bad especially by soccer standards which is probably the poorest out of any game on the planet). Once I started managing sporting comps my views on the refs and ref/player relationships changed a million fold.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:10 am

whufc wrote:Yeah we had the 'game has gone soft types' and then like you said the one who blames everything including their own performance on the ref/umpire.

Worst part about a social comp was you generally only had a couple of refs so pretty quickly they built a relationship/reporte with that refs. It tended to either be a great one or an absolute horrible one. Both players and refs often had premeditated ideas of one another before a game started because they were reffing/playing each other over 20 times a year.

Playing soccer I was a ref abuser/critise (not overly bad especially by soccer standards which is probably the poorest out of any game on the planet). Once I started managing sporting comps my views on the refs and ref/player relationships changed a million fold.


IMO, the game had to go a bit softer, gone are the neanderthal times of late hits and belting people, it happened at the top level and they'd miss two weeks.

It may be a bit OTT nowadays but if it means less Shane Tuck like outcomes then it's for the betterment of the game.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby RB » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:16 am

gadj1976 wrote:simply querying the umpires mid game isn’t going to get him to change his decision, so accept it and move on.


That might be good advice, but IMO it certainly doesn't justify a 50m penalty for the opposition.

A common sense approach to me would that genuine abuse results in a 50 (well, I prefer 25), but mild frustration or disagreement with the decision (e.g. throwing one's hands up) results in nothing. The other team have a free kick anyway, play on.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:25 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:Yeah we had the 'game has gone soft types' and then like you said the one who blames everything including their own performance on the ref/umpire.

Worst part about a social comp was you generally only had a couple of refs so pretty quickly they built a relationship/reporte with that refs. It tended to either be a great one or an absolute horrible one. Both players and refs often had premeditated ideas of one another before a game started because they were reffing/playing each other over 20 times a year.

Playing soccer I was a ref abuser/critise (not overly bad especially by soccer standards which is probably the poorest out of any game on the planet). Once I started managing sporting comps my views on the refs and ref/player relationships changed a million fold.


IMO, the game had to go a bit softer, gone are the neanderthal times of late hits and belting people, it happened at the top level and they'd miss two weeks.

It may be a bit OTT nowadays but if it means less Shane Tuck like outcomes then it's for the betterment of the game.


100% the game is in a better place for the lack of thuggery.

Its the only reason I came back to play after 20 years off. Was sick of getting belted behind play and at the bottom of the pack. Clearly im not built to be running around belting blokes. Even at amateur/country level its a million times better than it used to be albeit not perfect.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Trader » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:40 am

gadj1976 wrote:You keep going back to abuse! This isn't what we're talking about.


40 years ago giving your wife a right cross was considered domestic abuse.
In 2022, everything can be considered abuse, emotional abuse, social abuse, verbal abuse, economic abuse.

I'm not drawing the comparison to suggest players are threatening violence against umpires, but I would say that questioning their decisions is a behaviour that undermines the umpires authority.

The average fan is looking at what's getting pinged today, and comparing it to what was acceptable back in the 80s (refer to BT's antics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6V9kY-C_2M). Then coming to the conclusion that Harris Andrews is hard done by.
They shouldn't compare it to 1980's BT. The rules have changed. Interactions from players towards umpires now need to be respectful.

The bottom line, the AFL has come out and said players are no longer allowed to undermine umpires.
Is questioning their decision abusive? Or simply disrespectful? Who cares is the answer, neither are allowed.

Rather than argue what constitutes abuse, players that accept the ruling (both the new stance that umpire respect is required, and individual decisions in games) and move on, will be better off than those that want to argue the point.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:52 am

I did have a semi interesting umpire interaction last year playing b grade.

I was at the bottom of the pack when the umpire called a ball up, I went to handball to it him from five metres away and it flicked another player and missed the umpire. Keep in mind im a rugby bloke we throw the thing haha.

My natural response was 'sorry sir'...…………... rugby you have to address the umpire by sir every single time.

He blew the whistle and gave the free to the opposition, proclaiming 'for being a smart arse they can have the kick.'

At that same time the quarter time siren went to which I walked with him and explained I came from 10 years of playing union and haven't got out that habit as yet, I wasn't being a smartarse, I then asked him what he would like me to call him and he froze...……….he couldn't come up with an answer :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby tigerpie » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:53 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
whufc wrote:I didn't realise umpire abuse and grown men throwing the dummy out of the cot was actually part of the game. The 'game' is better for players getting on with doing what their paid do.....play the game.

Go and watch a low grade ammo's game.

Or even an u 13's game.
See it regularly, arms out complaining.
The kids mimic their AFL heroes so let's can it at that level then the next generation won't see it on a TV so won't do it.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby am Bays » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:03 am

Putting my community umpire hat on.

Arms out doesn't particularly worry me as its pretty harmless provided theirs isn't anything verbal associated with it which contravenes the following

18.8.2 Free Kicks - Umpires
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player or Official who:
(a) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language towards an Umpire;
(b) behaves in an abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene manner towards
an Umpire;
(d) disputes a decision of an Umpire;

The AFL is trying to address the issue of falling participation in the umpiring ranks. to me they are taking the path of least resistance thinking reducing abuse in community footy will attenuate the decline in umpire numbers.

Maybe increasing the pay for umpiring junior footy (especially 18s) and B grade where most of the issues are may help.

A grade community umpiring is generally pretty good pay but to get less money for doing a 17s and B grade in SA community footy compared to one A Grade game is poor.

The situation that is current right now is you have older less fit and less competent umpires doing those games and given the lack of discipline and skill at those levels the potential for flare ups is higher compared to A grade community footy.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Booney » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:17 am

Shut up maggot.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:30 am

Booney wrote:Shut up maggot.

Free kick Hawthorn.
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