2022 AFL Season

Talk on the national game

Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby am Bays » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:34 am

Booney wrote:Shut up maggot.


That's 50, come with me and while you're at it, try and hit a target next time you've got the footy or even better get a kick....

6 weeks ago in 2nd Semi final when a player was whinging about not getting a free kick for holding I did tell him the netball courts are 500 m that way....

I did have to explain myself, as the club complained, to the coach four days later who was also very good with that sort of lip when he umpired so I got the lettuce leaf "yeah dont do that again."
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Spargo » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:48 am

am Bays wrote:
Booney wrote:Shut up maggot.


That's 50, come with me and while you're at it, try and hit a target next time you've got the footy or even better get a kick....

6 weeks ago in 2nd Semi final when a player was whinging about not getting a free kick for holding I did tell him the netball courts are 500 m that way....

I did have to explain myself, as the club complained, to the coach four days later who was also very good with that sort of lip when he umpired so I got the lettuce leaf "yeah dont do that again."

Years ago I was umpiring in the Southern League, this team was getting belted & giving away ill disciplined free after free.
“You’re the worst f#cking umpire we’ve had all year” their captained screamed at me after another goal from a free.
“And you’re the worst f#cking team I’ve umpired all year”, I fired back.
I got a little please explain from the umpiring director on the following Tues night, nothing more.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:34 pm

am Bays wrote:Putting my community umpire hat on.

Arms out doesn't particularly worry me as its pretty harmless provided theirs isn't anything verbal associated with it which contravenes the following

18.8.2 Free Kicks - Umpires
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player or Official who:
(a) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language towards an Umpire;
(b) behaves in an abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene manner towards
an Umpire;
(d) disputes a decision of an Umpire;

The AFL is trying to address the issue of falling participation in the umpiring ranks. to me they are taking the path of least resistance thinking reducing abuse in community footy will attenuate the decline in umpire numbers.

Maybe increasing the pay for umpiring junior footy (especially 18s) and B grade where most of the issues are may help.

A grade community umpiring is generally pretty good pay but to get less money for doing a 17s and B grade in SA community footy compared to one A Grade game is poor.

The situation that is current right now is you have older less fit and less competent umpires doing those games and given the lack of discipline and skill at those levels the potential for flare ups is higher compared to A grade community footy.


Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby am Bays » Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:41 pm

whufc wrote:
Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.


Didnt say it should be the same but it should be higher than what it is as a minimum $20 buck higher. For my league that would make it $120 and $110 for Bs and 18s, A grade is $195.

BTW we are required to go an talk to teams (coaches and captain) before the game. Previous panel I umpired with stopped it.
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:56 pm

am Bays wrote:
whufc wrote:
Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.


Didnt say it should be the same but it should be higher than what it is as a minimum $20 buck higher. For my league that would make it $120 and $110 for Bs and 18s, A grade is $195.

BTW we are required to go an talk to teams (coaches and captain) before the game. Previous panel I umpired with stopped it.


I love the pre game chat especially in union.

We generally had a small but fast side and would always inform the umpire that we would love him to give advantage to us where possible as we would be looking to throw the ball around a bit and knew we would get smashed at scrums. :lol: Generally you would then see the umps give us as long as possible to capitalise on the advantage before bringing it back.

Im sure the alternative would have happened and teams would have asked the ump to not worry about advantage and just pay the penalty so they could lock down for the scrum. All fair in love and war.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:01 pm

whufc wrote:
am Bays wrote:Putting my community umpire hat on.

Arms out doesn't particularly worry me as its pretty harmless provided theirs isn't anything verbal associated with it which contravenes the following

18.8.2 Free Kicks - Umpires
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player or Official who:
(a) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language towards an Umpire;
(b) behaves in an abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene manner towards
an Umpire;
(d) disputes a decision of an Umpire;

The AFL is trying to address the issue of falling participation in the umpiring ranks. to me they are taking the path of least resistance thinking reducing abuse in community footy will attenuate the decline in umpire numbers.

Maybe increasing the pay for umpiring junior footy (especially 18s) and B grade where most of the issues are may help.

A grade community umpiring is generally pretty good pay but to get less money for doing a 17s and B grade in SA community footy compared to one A Grade game is poor.

The situation that is current right now is you have older less fit and less competent umpires doing those games and given the lack of discipline and skill at those levels the potential for flare ups is higher compared to A grade community footy.




Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.


B grade games are shorter and don't have time on.

A grade games are easier to umpire because of the skill level, you cop more shit from the sidelines because more people are there and they've drank more alcohol by then, the players are a bit more savvy in their approach to questioning free's. The hardest part is the switch on a wide oval, you can think you're in the right spot for the next play but then get caught out as they have the skills to back themselves for a switch, there are generally a lot less free kicks.

Country B Grade is good fun though, there's couple of loose cannons that get around so I usually run over to them in the warm up, slap them on the back and say "Hey mate, I'm busy Wednesday night, please don't ruin my plans" and have a laugh with them, it seems to put them in the right mindset.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby am Bays » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:22 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Country B Grade is good fun though, there's couple of loose cannons that get around so I usually run over to them in the warm up, slap them on the back and say "Hey mate, I'm busy Wednesday night, please don't ruin my plans" and have a laugh with them, it seems to put them in the right mindset.


I think I'd enjoy umpiring with you mate, make it fun and have a laugh. I detest umpiring with "Mr officious I'm an umpire so do what i say".

What you said is the key and why a pre-game chat if its done right makes the game flow better. I dont mind doing country B grade either as 95 % of the blokes are there to have a bit of fun, have a kick and have a few beers post game watching the As. Always 1-2 who make it "interesting" but if you talk to them respectfully have a bit of laugh it ends up being a good 100 mins

No matter what level, AFL or country footy if there's respect, a bit of give and take and and fun there's no need for reports/cards or frivolous 50s

Hopefully thread back on track
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:27 pm

am Bays wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Country B Grade is good fun though, there's couple of loose cannons that get around so I usually run over to them in the warm up, slap them on the back and say "Hey mate, I'm busy Wednesday night, please don't ruin my plans" and have a laugh with them, it seems to put them in the right mindset.


I think I'd enjoy umpiring with you mate, make it fun and have a laugh.

What you said is the key and why a pre-game chat if its done right makes the game flow better. I dont mind doing country B grade either as 95 % of the blokes are there to have a bit of fun, have a kick and have a few beers post game watching the As. Always 1-2 who make it "interesting" but if you talk to them respectfully have a bit of laugh it ends up being a good 100 mins


Yeah agree, my return to country footy as a 37 year old last year was thoroughly enjoyable and probably the most fun i've had on a sporting field in 20 years.

Like you said 99% of blokes are there for some fun, still attacked the ball hard but none of the off the ball jumper grabbing, bumping, arms across, abusive sledging that I had come to expect in my previous years playing. As a general rule that feel good fun translated to the relationship with the umpires, I think the worst I heard all year was a 'your ******* joking' towards an umpire.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:03 pm

am Bays wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Country B Grade is good fun though, there's couple of loose cannons that get around so I usually run over to them in the warm up, slap them on the back and say "Hey mate, I'm busy Wednesday night, please don't ruin my plans" and have a laugh with them, it seems to put them in the right mindset.


I think I'd enjoy umpiring with you mate, make it fun and have a laugh. I detest umpiring with "Mr officious I'm an umpire so do what i say".

What you said is the key and why a pre-game chat if its done right makes the game flow better. I dont mind doing country B grade either as 95 % of the blokes are there to have a bit of fun, have a kick and have a few beers post game watching the As. Always 1-2 who make it "interesting" but if you talk to them respectfully have a bit of laugh it ends up being a good 100 mins

No matter what level, AFL or country footy if there's respect, a bit of give and take and and fun there's no need for reports/cards or frivolous 50s

Hopefully thread back on track


Absolutely, if you're going to do it you may as well enjoy it and it's far easier when you are on the same page as your partner, nothing worse than having a different set of rules once the ball changes zones, it's bloody hard trying to teach a newbie while you're umpiring too, especially if there's a bit of heat in the game.

One thing that triggers me is at the coin toss, I've given the home captain a coin to toss and the other umpire has reefed it out of his hand to toss it himself, the better umpires go un-noticed.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby gadj1976 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:28 pm

RB wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:simply querying the umpires mid game isn’t going to get him to change his decision, so accept it and move on.


That might be good advice, but IMO it certainly doesn't justify a 50m penalty for the opposition.

A common sense approach to me would that genuine abuse results in a 50 (well, I prefer 25), but mild frustration or disagreement with the decision (e.g. throwing one's hands up) results in nothing. The other team have a free kick anyway, play on.


That wasn't me who quoted that by the way.

I agree with you 100% on the rest of your post.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby gadj1976 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:38 pm

Trader wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:You keep going back to abuse! This isn't what we're talking about.


40 years ago giving your wife a right cross was considered domestic abuse.
In 2022, everything can be considered abuse, emotional abuse, social abuse, verbal abuse, economic abuse.

I'm not drawing the comparison to suggest players are threatening violence against umpires, but I would say that questioning their decisions is a behaviour that undermines the umpires authority.

The average fan is looking at what's getting pinged today, and comparing it to what was acceptable back in the 80s (refer to BT's antics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6V9kY-C_2M). Then coming to the conclusion that Harris Andrews is hard done by.
They shouldn't compare it to 1980's BT. The rules have changed. Interactions from players towards umpires now need to be respectful.

The bottom line, the AFL has come out and said players are no longer allowed to undermine umpires.
Is questioning their decision abusive? Or simply disrespectful? Who cares is the answer, neither are allowed.

Rather than argue what constitutes abuse, players that accept the ruling (both the new stance that umpire respect is required, and individual decisions in games) and move on, will be better off than those that want to argue the point.


So hold on, if I say to my wife that I disagree with her going to the shops, I'm abusing her now am I? FMD.

Without logical debate the game will get more and more sterile and more boring to watch. I wouldn't mind if the AFL took feedback on but they are mightier than thou and cannot be questioned.

You have to remember, this is supposed to be bringing us back to respecting umpires. I can't see, even if we don't wave arms, that paying 50's every 5 minutes is 1, making our game better and 2. making us respect umpires any more than we do today/2021. In fact I see the disrespect being heightened.

And yep, coaches will take the AFL's stance, we'll laugh at players for giving multiple 50's away and in a few years time we'll have no remonstrating or 50's because of it, but like the "Stand" rule or "deliberate" rule, have those rules worked to achieve what they set out to do? No. The game will be over-governed and hugely boring.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby RB » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 pm

gadj1976 wrote:
RB wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:simply querying the umpires mid game isn’t going to get him to change his decision, so accept it and move on.


That might be good advice, but IMO it certainly doesn't justify a 50m penalty for the opposition.

A common sense approach to me would that genuine abuse results in a 50 (well, I prefer 25), but mild frustration or disagreement with the decision (e.g. throwing one's hands up) results in nothing. The other team have a free kick anyway, play on.


That wasn't me who quoted that by the way.

I agree with you 100% on the rest of your post.


My bad, back to Quoting 101 for RB.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby gadj1976 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:47 pm

RB wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:
RB wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:simply querying the umpires mid game isn’t going to get him to change his decision, so accept it and move on.


That might be good advice, but IMO it certainly doesn't justify a 50m penalty for the opposition.

A common sense approach to me would that genuine abuse results in a 50 (well, I prefer 25), but mild frustration or disagreement with the decision (e.g. throwing one's hands up) results in nothing. The other team have a free kick anyway, play on.


That wasn't me who quoted that by the way.

I agree with you 100% on the rest of your post.


My bad, back to Quoting 101 for RB.


All good mate.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Under_Scrutiny » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:27 am

am Bays wrote:
whufc wrote:
Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.


Didnt say it should be the same but it should be higher than what it is as a minimum $20 buck higher. For my league that would make it $120 and $110 for Bs and 18s, A grade is $195.

BTW we are required to go an talk to teams (coaches and captain) before the game. Previous panel I umpired with stopped it.


Interesting reading the payments at local level for the men in green, grey, white, blue or whatever they wear.

I might be alone here, but I'm thinking that is too low. A young bloke can work on a construction site on a Saturday and earn around $500 for the day. Even better if he's a gun footballer and he gets similar. Throw that same payment out to blokes to blow a whistle for a couple of hours on a Saturday arvo, and the talent pool will grow. All comps currently have old (some very old) retired footballers umpiring at least 2 games weekend cos no one else will do it. AFL have pillaged grass roots footy for a while now, and they could assist here and give back.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby whufc » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:31 am

Under_Scrutiny wrote:
am Bays wrote:
whufc wrote:
Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.


Didnt say it should be the same but it should be higher than what it is as a minimum $20 buck higher. For my league that would make it $120 and $110 for Bs and 18s, A grade is $195.

BTW we are required to go an talk to teams (coaches and captain) before the game. Previous panel I umpired with stopped it.


Interesting reading the payments at local level for the men in green, grey, white, blue or whatever they wear.

I might be alone here, but I'm thinking that is too low. A young bloke can work on a construction site on a Saturday and earn around $500 for the day. Even better if he's a gun footballer and he gets similar. Throw that same payment out to blokes to blow a whistle for a couple of hours on a Saturday arvo, and the talent pool will grow. All comps currently have old (some very old) retired footballers umpiring at least 2 games weekend cos no one else will do it. AFL have pillaged grass roots footy for a while now, and they could assist here and give back.


If its done legitimately is there a maximum amount someone can earn for a 'hobby' job that might prevent that level of payment being made??? Would it still be considered a hobby if someone was earning $300-500 a week. I genuinely don't know.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Booney » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:32 am

#nobushleaguesintheafl
PAFC. Forever.

LOOK OUT, WE'RE COMING!
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby am Bays » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:35 am

Booney wrote:#nobushleaguesintheafl


#noaflinthevcflbfl ;)
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:45 am

Under_Scrutiny wrote:
am Bays wrote:
whufc wrote:
Genuine question, if pay was the same for an A Grade and B Grade game would you see umpires only wanting to umpire the b grade games due to the perceived less pressure.

I would imagine umpiring b grade footy though has much harder decision making given the sloppier nature, albeit you would need to cover a lot less distance due to the slower speed of a b grade game.


Didnt say it should be the same but it should be higher than what it is as a minimum $20 buck higher. For my league that would make it $120 and $110 for Bs and 18s, A grade is $195.

BTW we are required to go an talk to teams (coaches and captain) before the game. Previous panel I umpired with stopped it.


Interesting reading the payments at local level for the men in green, grey, white, blue or whatever they wear.

I might be alone here, but I'm thinking that is too low. A young bloke can work on a construction site on a Saturday and earn around $500 for the day. Even better if he's a gun footballer and he gets similar. Throw that same payment out to blokes to blow a whistle for a couple of hours on a Saturday arvo, and the talent pool will grow. All comps currently have old (some very old) retired footballers umpiring at least 2 games weekend cos no one else will do it. AFL have pillaged grass roots footy for a while now, and they could assist here and give back.


The clubs will bitch about any increase, it's a thankless job at times and you've basically got to do it for the love of the game instead of the coin.

I don't mind doing it as it keeps me fit, I have some enjoyment out of it and it is a bit of a double edged sword, while I'm out earning a bit of money on a Saturday afternoon I'm not at the pub spending money.

I try to not touch it and let it build for a trip away or some form of reward to keep me motivated, when you wake up on a Saturday morning a bit dusty and you have 2 or games to do for the day and you can hear the rain pissing down it can make you cast some doubts on why the hell you do it.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby MW » Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:46 pm

Cory Weightman calling tall poppy syndrome on those booing him for drawing free kicks and thinks its a skill set to do it. Oh boy...
Go in first and hardest to win the ball is a skill set, not lifting arms and throwing the head back in a pack.
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Re: 2022 AFL Season

Postby FlyingHigh » Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:35 pm

Booney wrote:#nobushleaguesintheafl


#tautology
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