Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby RB » Mon May 02, 2022 6:47 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:But, in the world of envy we have in Australia, and even though those earning under $100k would get taxed a crap load less, the lefties wouldn't like it


By 'envy' presumably you mean 'a desire for both fairness and a fiscally responsible approach, and concern that there is enough public funding for essential services, health, defence, education, etc. etc.'
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 02, 2022 7:01 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:
Psyber wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:I wonder if the Productivity Commission has ever done a study on the effects of bringing the tax rate down to a flat rate (or 2) and getting rid of all tax deductions

@Psyber?

Top tax rate in
Singapore: 22% on S$320k+ (US$144,230)
Hong Kong: 17% on HKD200k+ (US$25,485)
Malaysia: 30% on MR2m (US$45,900)


I don't know whether they have ever considered it, nor whether it would work, but I'd like to see figures on how such a system would compare with our present one in terms of funding essential services. Overall, I think our MPs are disinclined to introduce any system that would reduce their net take home earnings.

I recall paying tax at 58 cents in the dollar in the late 1970s, and resenting that high a percentage. My accountant suggested I buy a Mercedes I could tax deduct, but I went for a Porsche instead...

These days, being largely retired and not working at all in private practice, I don't earn enough for the tax rate to bother me - I only work a couple of months each year in public health.


I'm thinking something like (these numbers could be anything)
0% to $20k
10% up to $100k
20% up to $200k
30% thereafter

But, in the world of envy we have in Australia, and even though those earning under $100k would get taxed a crap load less, the lefties wouldn't like it
We will never get proper tax reform whilst there are votes to be won
Stop all funding to private schools and tip it into public schools and public housing. Tax the churches and we will debt free in no time. Simple
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Spargo » Mon May 02, 2022 7:55 pm

Stop “funding” private schools & see what happens…
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 02, 2022 8:01 pm

Spargo wrote:Stop “funding” private schools & see what happens…
Little Johnny might have to go without his music lessons or the schools will have to survive with only 8 turf cricket pitches instead of 10?
Any religion based school shouldn’t get a cent from the government
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Spargo » Mon May 02, 2022 8:42 pm

Jim05 wrote:
Spargo wrote:Stop “funding” private schools & see what happens…
Little Johnny might have to go without his music lessons or the schools will have to survive with only 8 turf cricket pitches instead of 10?
Any religion based school shouldn’t get a cent from the government

You’re missing the point completely here, mate.
If you think all private schools have 8 or 10 turf pitches…
Forget Scotch, Pulteney, PAC or St Peter’s, have a look at how many smaller private schools are out there whose facilities are worse/aged than many public schools. Start with junior primary schools.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jase » Mon May 02, 2022 8:58 pm

We have 1 concrete pitch, that is in the middle of the 1 football oval...

We are a low fee paying independent school.. not one of the big boys, far from it, but we punch well above our weight with the results in the academic sphere as well as emotionally and pastorally for all our students...

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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby tigerpie » Mon May 02, 2022 11:58 pm

Jim05 wrote:
Spargo wrote:Stop “funding” private schools & see what happens…
Little Johnny might have to go without his music lessons or the schools will have to survive with only 8 turf cricket pitches instead of 10?
Any religion based school shouldn’t get a cent from the government

Can you imagine the class sizes in public schools if private schools were forced to close.
Ridiculous comment Jim.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jim05 » Tue May 03, 2022 12:03 am

tigerpie wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
Spargo wrote:Stop “funding” private schools & see what happens…
Little Johnny might have to go without his music lessons or the schools will have to survive with only 8 turf cricket pitches instead of 10?
Any religion based school shouldn’t get a cent from the government

Can you imagine the class sizes in public schools if private schools were forced to close.
Ridiculous comment Jim.
The amount of funding given to private schools could cover a whole stack of new public schools.
Yes, perhaps some of the smaller private schools might have to be exempt but absolutely zero dollars should be given to the larger colleges and absolutely nothing should be given to any religious schools.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby RB » Tue May 03, 2022 9:28 am

Jim05 wrote:
tigerpie wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
Spargo wrote:Stop “funding” private schools & see what happens…
Little Johnny might have to go without his music lessons or the schools will have to survive with only 8 turf cricket pitches instead of 10?
Any religion based school shouldn’t get a cent from the government

Can you imagine the class sizes in public schools if private schools were forced to close.
Ridiculous comment Jim.
The amount of funding given to private schools could cover a whole stack of new public schools.


Bingo. I would've thought this was implicit in your post anyway.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Trader » Tue May 03, 2022 10:57 am

Do private schools get more funding (per child) from the government than the state schools?
If so, then I'd agree with them getting cut back.

But if they are getting the same or less (I assume its the same), then there is nothing wrong with the government funding that amount.

From the government's perspective, if they need to pay $5k for little johnny to get educated, why does the government care if that's $5k to a state school or $5k to a private school.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue May 03, 2022 2:34 pm

RB wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:But, in the world of envy we have in Australia, and even though those earning under $100k would get taxed a crap load less, the lefties wouldn't like it


By 'envy' presumably you mean 'a desire for both fairness and a fiscally responsible approach, and concern that there is enough public funding for essential services, health, defence, education, etc. etc.'


Because Hong Kong, Singapore & Malaysia have none of those things.
As I said, if you'd bothered to read and comprehend, do a study on lowering personal tax and doing away with tax deductions (that includes negative gearing etc)

My recollection is that someone, once, did propose this and said that the most deductions were at the top end with people lowering the top tax rate, and that doing what I proposed would actually increase the total tax taken. That, actually means more money for public funding for "essential services, health, defence, education" plus a massive reduction in the cost of taxing

But thanks for proving my point.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby RB » Tue May 03, 2022 3:11 pm

I'd be interested to see the report you are referring to.

Removing deductions would not raise taxable incomes in Australia (i.e. and offset the lower tax rates) by as much as you think.

I appreciate that you had to pick numbers essentially at random for the purpose of your example, but on the figures above you came up with this would vastly reduce the tax base in Australia.

I'm not saying don't explore options to improve the tax system - I'm saying that most Australians desire fiscal conservatism (i.e. not significantly reducing the tax take when we're well in debt) just as much as they desire fairness (or as you call it, 'envy').
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Booney » Tue May 03, 2022 3:14 pm

There goes the property boom.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby stan » Tue May 03, 2022 3:44 pm

Booney wrote:There goes the property boom.
Reckon that's just a loosner from the RBA. They'll need more than that slow the market.

Probably the same next month as well. We could see the official cash rate up about 1.5% by Christmas.
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Booney » Tue May 03, 2022 3:44 pm

stan wrote:
Booney wrote:There goes the property boom.
Reckon that's just a loosner from the RBA. They'll need more than that slow the market.

Probably the same next month as well. We could see the official cash rate up about 1.5% by Christmas.


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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby am Bays » Tue May 03, 2022 4:00 pm

They'll go up but not as much as everyone thinks.

If the squeeze is applied too quickly and excessively the impact will be significant.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-02/rba-will-raise-rates-but-not-to-levels-experts-are-predicting/101029534

My bet is another 25 basis points in June and then they'll sit for a while to see the impact. Will go again later in the year but dont think it will be 1.5% by Christmas.

When interest rates hit 0.1 % four years ago (I think it was) we kept paying $200 a month over on our mortgage in Sheidow Park, knowing that the next move was going to be up. I don't think we will be alone in having that buffer. (I know I sound like Psyber ;) )
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jase » Tue May 03, 2022 4:08 pm

am Bays wrote:They'll go up but not as much as everyone thinks.

If the squeeze is applied too quickly and excessively the impact will be significant.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-02/rba-will-raise-rates-but-not-to-levels-experts-are-predicting/101029534

My bet is another 25 basis points in June and then they'll sit for a while to see the impact. Will go again later in the year but dont think it will be 1.5% by Christmas.

When interest rates hit 0.1 % four years ago (I think it was) we kept paying $200 a month over on our mortgage in Sheidow Park, knowing that the next move was going to be up. I don't think we will be alone in having that buffer. (I know I sound like Psyber ;) )


We did the same thing for the Golden Grove place and the Goolwa place, nicely in front of the mortgages and also the extra paid will more than cover the increases in required repayment by the bank...
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue May 03, 2022 4:11 pm

RB wrote:I'd be interested to see the report you are referring to.

Removing deductions would not raise taxable incomes in Australia (i.e. and offset the lower tax rates) by as much as you think.

I appreciate that you had to pick numbers essentially at random for the purpose of your example, but on the figures above you came up with this would vastly reduce the tax base in Australia.

I'm not saying don't explore options to improve the tax system - I'm saying that most Australians desire fiscal conservatism (i.e. not significantly reducing the tax take when we're well in debt) just as much as they desire fairness (or as you call it, 'envy').


You are equating envy with "fairness" not me
Envy is resentment that someone else has something they dont. Nothing, at all, to do with fairness
Envy is someone getting a $30,000 tax reduction under my system but is outraged that Andrew Forrest is getting a $1m tax reduction because he's rich. The fact he still pays $10m in tax means nothing to them (the numbers are rubbery)

The old story about the group of luncheoners
The rich bloke always paid half.
When the total cost comes down, for one reason or another, they think the rich bloke should not get any of the benefit and should continue to pay the same amount. The rest of them should pay less because its only "fair'. After all, he is rich and can afford it (envy)
The rich bloke says "**** off" with your principle of fairness and never goes again so they all have to pay more

My proposed system is based upon the total tax collect being either the same or more hence why my rates are for illustration only
The real benefit is bringing down the cost of tax collecting for both the goverrnments and the taxpayers and the removal of one of the main ways of tax avoidance.
If the top rate was less, and deductions removed, most people wouldn't bother finding ways to avoid tax
The answer to any problem is not to tax more. People will still find ways around tax.
Tax less and remove the incentive & means (tax deductions) to find ways around it.

But, even if they did it, the governments will still dick us over just like they did with GST
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby tipper » Tue May 03, 2022 4:15 pm

Jase wrote:
am Bays wrote:They'll go up but not as much as everyone thinks.

If the squeeze is applied too quickly and excessively the impact will be significant.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-02/rba-will-raise-rates-but-not-to-levels-experts-are-predicting/101029534

My bet is another 25 basis points in June and then they'll sit for a while to see the impact. Will go again later in the year but dont think it will be 1.5% by Christmas.

When interest rates hit 0.1 % four years ago (I think it was) we kept paying $200 a month over on our mortgage in Sheidow Park, knowing that the next move was going to be up. I don't think we will be alone in having that buffer. (I know I sound like Psyber ;) )


We did the same thing for the Golden Grove place and the Goolwa place, nicely in front of the mortgages and also the extra paid will more than cover the increases in required repayment by the bank...


yep, i dont reckon our repayments changed when the interest rates came down. they will need to come up a fair way before our payments have to go up to match.

would be a different story if i was mortgaged t the hilt only recently though, and there would be a fair few in that boat i reckon
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Booney » Tue May 03, 2022 4:38 pm

am Bays wrote:They'll go up but not as much as everyone thinks.

If the squeeze is applied too quickly and excessively the impact will be significant.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-02/rba-will-raise-rates-but-not-to-levels-experts-are-predicting/101029534

My bet is another 25 basis points in June and then they'll sit for a while to see the impact. Will go again later in the year but dont think it will be 1.5% by Christmas.

When interest rates hit 0.1 % four years ago (I think it was) we kept paying $200 a month over on our mortgage in Sheidow Park, knowing that the next move was going to be up. I don't think we will be alone in having that buffer. (I know I sound like Psyber ;) )


Official cash rate and bank rates are two different things though.
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