Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby am Bays » Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:51 pm

It's more likely the last 100 years as the policy of USSR was the "Russification" of the Western Soviet republics especially the Baltic states as they tried to homogenise the social systems across the former USSR. TV stations only in Russian, state controlled media, immigration of Russian to those western soviet states KGB "encouragement" to toe the Russian Soviet line.

its true in WW2 Western Ukraine were more receptive to the Germans invaders given their angst against Russia, the ongoing labelling of Ukranie as Nazis stems from that. There's always been a lot of angst towards Russia in the Western Soviet states hence why thehy are looking towards NATO for support. It's not NATO, IMO looking east, it's smaller former USSR states looking West.

Ina nutshell there has always been angst between Russia and the Ukraine so this is nothing new and I dont deny with the rise of Nationalism across the worlds minorities have been targeted. So Russia has taken issue with what ahs happened to the ethnic Russians it e has encouraged to migrate there in the last 100 years.

This has been simmering since the mid 90s, Yugoslavian states sorted their shit out strait away in the 90s, but this ahs been on the downlow

So is Ukraine blameless, Nup, HAs Putin egged this on as he tried to prove himself like pervious Russian leaders Yup. The biggest Victim is the truth I just hope the Dick measuring contest get sorted with out the further loss of innocent lives.

When it all boils down to it, I dont think Russia actions are justified despite what Ukraine may have done.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby RB » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:09 pm

JohnnyDog wrote:Stan from what i understand Russias main objective from day one was to liberate and secure Eastern and Southern Ukraine


Well they certainly liberated that shopping centre this morning, far from the Donbass region.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby stan » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:44 pm

JohnnyDog wrote:Stan from what i understand Russias main objective from day one was to liberate and secure Eastern and Southern Ukraine and stop the genocide and also release water for Crimea Putin at this stage is not interested in taking over all of Ukraine unless NATO flexes its muscles the other so called reason is to de nazify the East. Yes in the first few weeks he did head towards Kiev then retreated the goal was to take out all of the miltary bases and the airfields which they have achieved from what i understand the Russians are mopping up the resistance in the East hopefully this well also end soon but if the West keeps sending in Billions of dollars worth of armaments this will prolong the conflict i have seen a Doco on the recent history of Ukraine its Oliver Stones " Ukraine on Fire" it sort of explains the corruption its nazi background the orange revolution outside operatives etc this is what i can recall reading over the years very informative correct me if i am wrong.
Why the blockade then in the Black Sea around Odesa?

I think it's clear Putin had bigger plans for Ukraine, even if he was doing it for the reasons that you mentioned above, he still wanted a regime change and a setup like Belarus. It just didn't turn out that way.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby JohnnyDog » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:38 am

Great analysis correct on all accounts amBays for me whats happening in Europe is all geopolitical manouvring by all the big players with an expansionist military NATO in Europe theres talk of Ukraine Finland Sweden and possibly other countries joining NATO no wonder Putin and Russia are not happy with military bases on its doorstep whats that old saying do not poke the bear .

Its like say China setting up bases in the Pacific or closer to home PNG would Australia be happy nah.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby JohnnyDog » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:06 pm

Stan i would not say its a blockade the waterways have been mined and of course both sides blame each other media reports say its the Ukrainians but other media say its the Russians so who do we believe. Yes grain shipments are not coming out of Odessa Ukraine is the second largest exporter of grain in the world this will affect millions of people and will result in food shortages so until the waterways are demined no shipments.

I am not sure about regime change but Zelensky cannot be trusted he is a great actor though.Since 2004 there has been two regime changes in Ukraine have you read about the Orange revolution some say say instigated by provocateurs/operatives/ foreign agents.

In the last fifty years who instigates regime changes and wars have a guess.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby stan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:29 pm

JohnnyDog wrote:Stan i would not say its a blockade the waterways have been mined and of course both sides blame each other media reports say its the Ukrainians but other media say its the Russians so who do we believe. Yes grain shipments are not coming out of Odessa Ukraine is the second largest exporter of grain in the world this will affect millions of people and will result in food shortages so until the waterways are demined no shipments.

I am not sure about regime change but Zelensky cannot be trusted he is a great actor though.Since 2004 there has been two regime changes in Ukraine have you read about the Orange revolution some say say instigated by provocateurs/operatives/ foreign agents.

In the last fifty years who instigates regime changes and wars have a guess.
That's the thing, there is so much fake news out there about all of this, it's hard to get a feel for what's really happening.

Odesa is the key at the moment, if the Ukrainians can clear this Port and get it moving again there might be some way forward here with he Donbass region.

Not sure how this gets set up but at the moment Russia is starting to clear out the last Ukrainian resistance in that territory. Looks like they want to set up the DPR and LPR formally, but Putin needs to come to the table. He came hard after the country and the West won't let that sit.

Putin was invited to the table days before the war started to discuss the region but no, here we are.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby Jim05 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:36 pm

Fantastic that Sweden and Finland are joining NATO. Ukraine aren’t going to give up and hopefully the West keeps supplying them weapons.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby Armchair expert » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:39 pm

Ukraine won't clear the mines in Odessa as that would result in free passage to Russian naval ships.

They can't get grain out because they can't let Russian warships in...this is Putins play, blame food shortages on Ukraine, sow discontent in the West.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby Armchair expert » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:40 pm

Jim05 wrote:Fantastic that Sweden and Finland are joining NATO. Ukraine aren’t going to give up and hopefully the West keeps supplying them weapons.


NATO Lake formerly known as the Baltic Sea
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby RB » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:47 pm

JohnnyDog wrote:theres talk of Ukraine Finland Sweden and possibly other countries joining NATO no wonder Putin and Russia are not happy with military bases on its doorstep whats that old saying do not poke the bear .


It's one thing not to be happy about things. Quite another altogether to commit war crimes in response.

I assume your reference to 'poking the bear' is an attempt to characterise what the Russians allege triggered the invasion, rather than an attempt to absolve Russia of moral culpability for its actions.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby am Bays » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:32 pm

JohnnyDog wrote:Great analysis correct on all accounts amBays for me whats happening in Europe is all geopolitical manouvring by all the big players with an expansionist military NATO in Europe theres talk of Ukraine Finland Sweden and possibly other countries joining NATO no wonder Putin and Russia are not happy with military bases on its doorstep whats that old saying do not poke the bear .

Its like say China setting up bases in the Pacific or closer to home PNG would Australia be happy nah.


You do realise neutral countries like Sweden and Finland are only making noises about joining NATO as a response to the Russian invasion as they don't want to be next?

whether Ukraine saw it as opportunist to apply to join NATO due to their history of issues with Russia is up for debate.

I dont see anything than NATO is doing as expansionist, IMO they are seen as safe haven for vulnerable eastern European state due to the rise of nationalism in the world a la 1890--1915

It's like when it's raining and I see a pub. I'm naturally drawn to it for shelter, it's not making go in there....
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby JohnnyDog » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:01 pm

Who knows amBays from what i understand they have been poking the bears belly for a lot of years with various broken agreements and NATO has been doing a great job in accepting countries who border Russia into joining the military brotherhood. The bear has been giving subtle warnings on the consequences of this but no one has been listening. I hope i am wrong but it looks like this could blow into a full scale war in Europe all the indicators are there all tit form tat. After two world wars and million upon millions of deaths mankind still has not learnt anything from history.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby stan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:25 pm

JohnnyDog wrote:Who knows amBays from what i understand they have been poking the bears belly for a lot of years with various broken agreements and NATO has been doing a great job in accepting countries who border Russia into joining the military brotherhood. The bear has been giving subtle warnings on the consequences of this but no one has been listening. I hope i am wrong but it looks like this could blow into a full scale war in Europe all the indicators are there all tit form tat. After two world wars and million upon millions of deaths mankind still has not learnt anything from history.
You can take it to the bank that mankind hasn't learnt a thing.

However the amBays makes is fair that these countries mate seeking to it NATO for protection.

As amBays said, the pub doesn't turn him away.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby JohnnyDog » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:47 pm

Agree with ya Stan this Zelensky is a puppet of the West and he cannot be trusted hes a great actor very popular in Ukraine he wants 5 Billion dollars a month heres a brief summary demands and views from Zelensky and Stoltenberg its a very bad tense situation over there.

Zelensky Demands $Billions Per Month from NATO in Summit Address

Here are the main points made by Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky to the alliance in a video address:

▪️ We need security guarantees, and you need to find a place for Ukraine in the common security space. Is your contribution to the security of Europe enough?

▪️ For the sake of peace, it is necessary to reconsider the understanding of the eastern flank of NATO. We need more weapons, and $5bn per month

▪️ "The situation next year may be even worse when Russia will shell not only Ukraine, but also other neighboring countries. Russia's goals are clear to us… They see us as a republic of the USSR that needs to be returned.”

Also key points announced by NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg at the Madrid summit Wednesday:

▪️ New strategic concept endorsed until 2030, calls Russia the most significant and direct threat to security of the alliance

▪️Significant increase agreed in high-readiness forces on eastern flank, aid package to Ukraine approved including non-lethal equipment, strengthening cyber defense and modernizing defense industry

▪️Sweden & Finland officially invited to join alliance; security of countries "priority importance" for NATO, including during accession period

▪️Plans to strengthen political and practical support for Georgia, Moldova and other partners also agreed

▪️Alliance wants to maintain communication with Russia to reduce risks, but no longer considers Moscow its partner. NATO claims it does not seek confrontation and does not pose a threat to Russia but is strengthening its capabilities to deter it.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby Psyber » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:11 pm

am Bays wrote:
JohnnyDog wrote:Great analysis correct on all accounts amBays for me whats happening in Europe is all geopolitical manouvring by all the big players with an expansionist military NATO in Europe theres talk of Ukraine Finland Sweden and possibly other countries joining NATO no wonder Putin and Russia are not happy with military bases on its doorstep whats that old saying do not poke the bear .

Its like say China setting up bases in the Pacific or closer to home PNG would Australia be happy nah.


You do realise neutral countries like Sweden and Finland are only making noises about joining NATO as a response to the Russian invasion as they don't want to be next?

whether Ukraine saw it as opportunist to apply to join NATO due to their history of issues with Russia is up for debate.

I dont see anything than NATO is doing as expansionist, IMO they are seen as safe haven for vulnerable eastern European state due to the rise of nationalism in the world a la 1890--1915

It's like when it's raining and I see a pub. I'm naturally drawn to it for shelter, it's not making go in there....


If the takeover of Ukraine had gone as easily as Putin had hoped Lithuania would be a likely follow up as it would give Russia (and Belarus) a land bridge to the isolated Russian port of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea, and more chance of intimidating Scandinavia and western Europe in future.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby stan » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:10 am

In positive news, the withdrawal from Snake island near Odesa regardless of why it was done eg Russian good will or a timely defeat, what matters is that now Odesa can be cleared of the mines and ships starting to export out of Ukraine.

Hopefully this means the grain gets out now and the world has avoided a food crisis.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby JohnnyDog » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:46 am

Possibly Psyber i just hope Putin sticks to his words when he says its an operation to stop the genocide of the Russian speaking Ukrainians also de nazify the area in Eastern Ukraine and halt NATO. As side note i read yesterday that NATO has been in Ukraine since 2014 training the Ukraine military it appears this situation has been simmering for many years.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby JohnnyDog » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:48 am

Good news Stan on the grain shipments re starting hopefully this conflict will soon be over and the whole world can get back to some sort of normality.
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby Jim05 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:53 am

JohnnyDog wrote:Good news Stan on the grain shipments re starting hopefully this conflict will soon be over and the whole world can get back to some sort of normality.
Poms have just given them a billion pounds more of support and weapons and others kicking in too. This isn’t ending anytime soon unless Russia offers a complete withdrawal
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Re: Who will start World War 3 Vlad Putin or Joe Biden

Postby stan » Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:56 am

JohnnyDog wrote:Possibly Psyber i just hope Putin sticks to his words when he says its an operation to stop the genocide of the Russian speaking Ukrainians also de nazify the area in Eastern Ukraine and halt NATO. As side note i read yesterday that NATO has been in Ukraine since 2014 training the Ukraine military it appears this situation has been simmering for many years.
If the Russians are liberating the Dontesk region then are you able to explain what is happening at the University in Dontesk oblast?

Plenty of independent reports coming in of resistance springing up in this area due to forced conscription to the front.

Now this area that has been at ear since 2014 is according to yourself and your reporter Russian speaking Ukrainians that just wan to be part of Russia. Well looks like they are getting that wish as now all male University students are now being conscripted to the Russian armed forces to fight now as part of the DBR.

Graduates are being taken to the front line, parents were at the site and clashing with armed forces as they are trying to get to there kids at the moment. Male students are being moved to the front line in the DBR to fight at the front.

Now that's a occupied territory so that can only be Russian forces.

Interesting from Putin, he must care deeply for this people in DBR that he'll use them at cannon fodder.
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