2023 Adelaide Footy League - Division 2

[Yungmuney]

APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

INCORRECT. You're clearly not someone who deals with APPS. We all play to the same rules other than AdFL being 15 points across the board wheras country leagues can adjust points per club as a form of equalisation policy. Where you live has nothing to do with it. 20 junior games at the club or majority of games outside of A grade in the last 2 seasons are the main conditions for being 0 points. The Old Scholar clubs still have to provide evidence that the lad played 20 or more school games in his time at the school.

I was being slightly facetious with the 1 term thing. But what my point is you can have a college side bring in an abundance of 0 pointers as well as their 15 points allocated. They can literally recruit a whole new 21.

Kid finishes school, goes and plays at a suburban club for 3 years, plays some SANFL footy, goes back to old scholar team a 0 pointer. The metro clubs kids get cherry picked to the private schools on footy scholarships. I find it interesting that pre the APPS coming into play college sides sat in the lower divisions, they now occupy almost half of Div 1, a few in Div 2 and 3.

And no don’t put me in charge of APPS. I’ll run you a great canteen though

[Trader]

I was being slightly facetious with the 1 term thing. But what my point is you can have a college side bring in an abundance of 0 pointers as well as their 15 points allocated. They can literally recruit a whole new 21.

Kid finishes school, goes and plays at a suburban club for 3 years, plays some SANFL footy, goes back to old scholar team a 0 pointer. The metro clubs kids get cherry picked to the private schools on footy scholarships. I find it interesting that pre the APPS coming into play college sides sat in the lower divisions, they now occupy almost half of Div 1, a few in Div 2 and 3.

And no don’t put me in charge of APPS. I’ll run you a great canteen though

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

PNU for example can go an recruit as many 25 year old's as they want, provided they played enough juniors with PNU.
ROCs should have the same opportunity to recruit the 25 year olds that played enough school games with Rostrevor.

[Down the Hill]

Agree that the current system is quite beneficial for the OS clubs but without junior set-ups outside the school itself, it does make it difficult to come up with a better alternative. But the scholarship and boarding system means many only attend the school for the last 2 or 3 school years. Very rare for a suburban club to have a 15 to 16 year old gun just appear out of nowhere and become a 0 pointer for future benefit. Plus the school has power to make them play school footy whereas that same lad at a suburban club will struggle to get to 20 junior games if he is one of the first picked each week for a SANFL U16 and U18 team over the next 2 or 3 seasons.

[The Bedge]

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

Except 25 junior games is from 12-18 years old, and doesn't take into account before U12's.. which I think it should.

How many kids at a SANFL club who attend a private school would be able to find the time to accumulate another 25 games at their local club once they reach high school?

[Trader]

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

Except 25 junior games is from 12-18 years old, and doesn't take into account before U12's.. which I think it should.

How many kids at a SANFL club who attend a private school would be able to find the time to accumulate another 25 games at their local club once they reach high school?

I assume the same qualification period applies for school footy as suburban? IE: the school sides can only count games from kids aged 12-18, same as suburban clubs?

[Yungmuney]

I was being slightly facetious with the 1 term thing. But what my point is you can have a college side bring in an abundance of 0 pointers as well as their 15 points allocated. They can literally recruit a whole new 21.

Kid finishes school, goes and plays at a suburban club for 3 years, plays some SANFL footy, goes back to old scholar team a 0 pointer. The metro clubs kids get cherry picked to the private schools on footy scholarships. I find it interesting that pre the APPS coming into play college sides sat in the lower divisions, they now occupy almost half of Div 1, a few in Div 2 and 3.

And no don’t put me in charge of APPS. I’ll run you a great canteen though

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

PNU for example can go an recruit as many 25 year old's as they want, provided they played enough juniors with PNU.
ROCs should have the same opportunity to recruit the 25 year olds that played enough school games with Rostrevor.

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

PAC have an E grade I believe and then we have community clubs struggling to fill B grade sides.

[The Bedge]

I assume the same qualification period applies for school footy as suburban? IE: the school sides can only count games from kids aged 12-18, same as suburban clubs?

Yeah but easier to play 25+ games over year 7 to year 12 school footy one would think.

[Executive Member]

I was being slightly facetious with the 1 term thing. But what my point is you can have a college side bring in an abundance of 0 pointers as well as their 15 points allocated. They can literally recruit a whole new 21.

Kid finishes school, goes and plays at a suburban club for 3 years, plays some SANFL footy, goes back to old scholar team a 0 pointer. The metro clubs kids get cherry picked to the private schools on footy scholarships. I find it interesting that pre the APPS coming into play college sides sat in the lower divisions, they now occupy almost half of Div 1, a few in Div 2 and 3.

And no don’t put me in charge of APPS. I’ll run you a great canteen though

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

PNU for example can go an recruit as many 25 year old's as they want, provided they played enough juniors with PNU.
ROCs should have the same opportunity to recruit the 25 year olds that played enough school games with Rostrevor.

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

PAC have an E grade I believe and then we have community clubs struggling to fill B grade sides.

well considering a side could play with 45 points in their B Grade side down, I am not sure how the points would stop PAC having an E Grade Team

[Shortman]

I was being slightly facetious with the 1 term thing. But what my point is you can have a college side bring in an abundance of 0 pointers as well as their 15 points allocated. They can literally recruit a whole new 21.

Kid finishes school, goes and plays at a suburban club for 3 years, plays some SANFL footy, goes back to old scholar team a 0 pointer. The metro clubs kids get cherry picked to the private schools on footy scholarships. I find it interesting that pre the APPS coming into play college sides sat in the lower divisions, they now occupy almost half of Div 1, a few in Div 2 and 3.

And no don’t put me in charge of APPS. I’ll run you a great canteen though

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

PNU for example can go an recruit as many 25 year old's as they want, provided they played enough juniors with PNU.
ROCs should have the same opportunity to recruit the 25 year olds that played enough school games with Rostrevor.

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

PAC have an E grade I believe and then we have community clubs struggling to fill B grade sides.

Henley have 5 sides this year I think too

[Yungmuney]

I was being slightly facetious with the 1 term thing. But what my point is you can have a college side bring in an abundance of 0 pointers as well as their 15 points allocated. They can literally recruit a whole new 21.

Kid finishes school, goes and plays at a suburban club for 3 years, plays some SANFL footy, goes back to old scholar team a 0 pointer. The metro clubs kids get cherry picked to the private schools on footy scholarships. I find it interesting that pre the APPS coming into play college sides sat in the lower divisions, they now occupy almost half of Div 1, a few in Div 2 and 3.

And no don’t put me in charge of APPS. I’ll run you a great canteen though

What's the difference between a player returning to play with his school mates at an old scholars club (zero pointer), and returning to his suburban club where he played juniors (also zero pointer).

PNU for example can go an recruit as many 25 year old's as they want, provided they played enough juniors with PNU.
ROCs should have the same opportunity to recruit the 25 year olds that played enough school games with Rostrevor.

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

PAC have an E grade I believe and then we have community clubs struggling to fill B grade sides.

well considering a side could play with 45 points in their B Grade side down, I am not sure how the points would stop PAC having an E Grade Team

Just pointing out the sheer volume of players they get access to

[jo172]

Should be more than 25 games imo. Make it 50, that's 4 years of junior footy or 4 years of high school. Means you were really part of the club/school for a number of years rather than overnight.

Also more broadly I find it perverse that SANFL reserves is 3 points and D7 is 3 points.

[Yungmuney]

Should be more than 25 games imo. Make it 50, that's 4 years of junior footy or 4 years of high school. Means you were really part of the club/school for a number of years rather than overnight.

Also more broadly I find it perverse that SANFL reserves is 3 points and D7 is 3 points.

Wasn’t it only a couple of years ago the leagues were set into Tiers? Tier 1 league players were 3 points and Tier 2 were 2 points? Which included Div 4 and below as tier 2?

[jo172]

I assume the same qualification period applies for school footy as suburban? IE: the school sides can only count games from kids aged 12-18, same as suburban clubs?

Yeah but easier to play 25+ games over year 7 to year 12 school footy one would think.

A bit of the bullshit about it is that from 13-18 alot of the schools will prohibit players from playing for their suburban clubs.

All the moreso if the kids are in the development squads at the League clubs too.

Not unknown for a talented kid at a college to play 100 games for Walkerville or PNU from 7-12, but then 20 over the next 5 years (despite playing every year) as league and college footy takes over.

[jo172]

As an aside, i'd be all for ditching TPPS and keeping APPS as is as others have suggested.

APPS is transparent and easily audited and done once for the year.

TPPS just makes for rumour, innuendo and an ongoing administrative nightmare.

[Trader]

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

Coming out of year 12? Isn't everyone 0 points when they first play seniors, irrespective of if they've played Junior footy or not?
Therefore, any school that recruits from their graduating class of 120 kids, all of them are zero, no matter how much school footy they have played.
And similarly for the suburban clubs too. If PNU get 30 kids out of Rostrevor when they graduate school, they are all zero pointers for PNU when they start playing senior footy, despite potentially never pulling on the black and white previously.

The recruitment of kids graduating school isn't a points issue, everyone is zero (i believe).

[pureclass]

How has this Salisbury North mistaken happened?
Did the players in question play for Salisbury North previously and the club thought they qualified as zero points?
Or did the players stop playing footy over the last few years and the club t thought they were zero points?
Salisbury North must have known where they played their previous footy and how many points they were?

[jo172]

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

Coming out of year 12? Isn't everyone 0 points when they first play seniors, irrespective of if they've played Junior footy or not?
Therefore, any school that recruits from their graduating class of 120 kids, all of them are zero, no matter how much school footy they have played.
And similarly for the suburban clubs too. If PNU get 30 kids out of Rostrevor when they graduate school, they are all zero pointers for PNU when they start playing senior footy, despite potentially never pulling on the black and white previously.

The recruitment of kids graduating school isn't a points issue, everyone is zero (i believe).

Except if kid comes out of juniors (having not played 25 games) for Club A plays one season of 18 games in 2023, and then leaves to Club B and plays one season of 18 games in 2024.

Kid then wants to return to Club A for 2025, but does so as a 3 pointer.

[Trader]

Some of these colleges have a 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd 18. How many of those kids each year are then an option for their OS team coming out of year 12? Yet PNU might get what? 5-6 u/17.5s come up each year?

Coming out of year 12? Isn't everyone 0 points when they first play seniors, irrespective of if they've played Junior footy or not?
Therefore, any school that recruits from their graduating class of 120 kids, all of them are zero, no matter how much school footy they have played.
And similarly for the suburban clubs too. If PNU get 30 kids out of Rostrevor when they graduate school, they are all zero pointers for PNU when they start playing senior footy, despite potentially never pulling on the black and white previously.

The recruitment of kids graduating school isn't a points issue, everyone is zero (i believe).

Except if kid comes out of juniors (having not played 25 games) for Club A plays one season of 18 games in 2023, and then leaves to Club B and plays one season of 18 games in 2024.

Kid then wants to return to Club A for 2025, but does so as a 3 pointer.

Yup, so a very small minority.

The vast majority of kids who come out of school, join a club and play their senior footy there are zero pointers for every club, old scholars or suburban, previous junior or not.

[jo172]

There's also kid who's a gun junior footballer and plays all his junior football for club A.

From U8s to U12s he plays 100 odd games.

At 13 he goes to College B and League Club Development Squad C.

Pursuant to the rules of College B he has to prioritise playing for them. When not playing for College B he has to prioritise playing for League Club Development Squad C. Because of these limitations, he stays a member of club A, but only manages to play 4 games a year for Club A leaving him with 20 junior games for club A between 13 and 18.

He then plays two years of reserves for League Club C.

Following leaving the reserves, he is zero points for College B's old colls side, and 3 points for Club A's senior side.

This is not in itself an uncommon result that has always struck me as wrong.

[redyellow&blue]

TBH this points thing has been done to death, and will not change until the SACFL and SANFL put a foot down. with regards to college footy.

It's a bit ridiculous that the college system has so much power, even to the point of players being unavailable for SANFL teams.

Answer is simple. unless you've actually played the required amount of games at the specific amateur club, not the school, then you're a points player.

The college system wants it's cake, and wants to eat the whole thing too. If college A want's you, or forces you to play for the school first, then its bad luck for College side A who has a team in the amateur league. If player leaves College A at the end of his schooling to play for a country side, then comes back to college A Amateur club, then he should be points.