"Role Models"

[Squawk]

What is a "role model" in society?
Is it based on the individual, an occupation, an opinion, a good deed, philanthropy, ideology, values, giving, or what?
What responsibilities (if any) do they have, and to whom do they owe such responsibilities?
Must they be a role model 24/7?
Who, in your view, is a role model in our society today?
Must someone be a role model in every aspect of their life, or not?

[JAS]

Crikey...good question Squawkie

FWIW I think people have role models for various reasons depending upon their own needs. Some will aspire to a certain look or body shape whilst for others it would be a personality trait or an entire lifestyle.

I don't have a 'living' role model myself. I would have to say that my hero is also my role model...Ernest Shackleton. For me it's aspects of his personality that I aspire to. He was certainly not perfect...a serial adulterer (allegedly)...but I have always admired the fact that during the Endurance expedition he was prepared to abandon his own ambitions to ensure the survival of his men and he never gave up on his determination to rescue them and bring them home...and he succeeded.

A word of caution to anyone who attempts to actually meet a role model...when I first joined the RAF a role model for most of us was Sir Douglas Bader (the guy who lost both legs in WW2) I actually had what I assumed would be the huge honour of meeting the great man. He turned out to be the rudest, most arrogant, ignorrant w**ker I have ever met in my life...a shattering experience.

Regards
JAS

[Cambridge Clarrie]

Can't say that I have one specific role model, rather I take bits of different peoples personalities and try to emulate those characteristics. Many are from my own family members however I've never met a single person who I'd like to be exactly the same as - everyone has their flaws.

IMO people in public life do not have a resposibility to act as role models to everone else, but they do deserve to have extra attention placed on their actions if they want to take the benefits which come with being a celebrity (movie, TV, sporting or otherwise)...

Generally these celebrities are afforded a lot of slack when it comes to indiscretions (ie. Cousins)...

[Psyber]

Technically I suppose anyone people start copying because they hear about them, or see them, is a "role model", whether they want to be or not, for good or for bad, which is why for society's sake it matters how public figures behave.

[Mr66]

Parents.
Charles Barkley said that all entertainers & athletes owe the public, is a good peformance.

[Psyber]

Parents.
Charles Barkley said that all entertainers & athletes owe the public, is a good peformance.

Except a lot of kids see more of people who appear on TV than they do of their parents who both have jobs! And as they get towards adolescence and become anti-parent they actively seek outside models - and then who do they get! It doesn't matter whether it is fair - public figures need to be regulated for the sake of those who may copy what they see.

[Squawk]

Interesting that after all the debate about whether Cousins et al are role models or not, very few can seem to clarify what a role model constitutes?

[Psyber]

Interesting that after all the debate about whether Cousins et al are role models or not, very few can seem to clarify what a role model constitutes?

How about, "Someone who is very visible, and good at something that prompts young people to want to copy them and be like them in every way."

[rod_rooster]

It doesn't matter whether it is fair - public figures need to be regulated for the sake of those who may copy what they see.

What a lot of crap. If parents can't take the time to be proper role models for their children that is not the fault of entertainers or sports people. Where would you draw the line on who should be regulated? As i said, what a lot of crap. Perhaps parents should be regulated and those not capable of looking after children properly should not be allowed to have them.

[JK]

It doesn't matter whether it is fair - public figures need to be regulated for the sake of those who may copy what they see.

What a lot of crap. If parents can't take the time to be proper role models for their children that is not the fault of entertainers or sports people. Where would you draw the line on who should be regulated? As i said, what a lot of crap. Perhaps parents should be regulated and those not capable of looking after children properly should not be allowed to have them.

Gotta agree with this in the main ... Whilst they are in the public eye far more, sports people and entertainers are also doing their jobs to earn an income, no different to a plumber or accountant for example.

I think role models need to commence with parents, perhaps even extend to teachers and any others that have a duty of care to children and must maintain certain boundaries for them.

[Psyber]

It doesn't matter whether it is fair - public figures need to be regulated for the sake of those who may copy what they see.

What a lot of crap. If parents can't take the time to be proper role models for their children that is not the fault of entertainers or sports people. Where would you draw the line on who should be regulated? As i said, what a lot of crap. Perhaps parents should be regulated and those not capable of looking after children properly should not be allowed to have them.

Sure, it starts when parents don't teach their kids how to behave because they are flat out coping for various reasons, like thay are single parents and working two jobs, or perhaps they are drunks or druggies. A lot of basic behavioural learning starts as copying the example set around you. It is called "modelling".

But then, if it fails there, and the schools not longer enforce civilised behaviour in early childhood, and laws about public nuisance and public intoxication are repealed or not enforced when the kids are adolescent or young adults, then we are left with fewer good examples on show and more bad ones. Then those who grow up like this have kids whose behaviour they don't even think needs any form of regulation or limitation any more than their's does, and so we have a vicious circle, running around faster and faster, reinforcing itself.... Now how do you stop your kids from following the lead they see as they grow up and start looking for models to model on as they try to separate from their parents dominance of them in adolescence. At that age, when primitive man went off and became independent, they can't in modern society, but they reject parents as models to varying extents to give themselves a sense of separateness and independence.

Then the only way to break the pattern is for everybody to start setting the good example, and that includes requiring those who appear on the media to cooperate, because the visual media have enormous impact. People tend to copy people thay admire for a talent and they don't just copy the good bits - they copy all the behaviour on display.

Now where do we go if we say nobody has to provide a good role model except the parents, because the effect of the parents will be overwhelmed by the sheer mass of contrasting examples all around us? We can require everybody to be a good role model and behave politely and civilly - or we could just accept that we all go feral, and eventually the guy with the armoured Hummer and the best gun is King.

It is not just the parents' job, or just the public figures' job, it is everybody's job to encourage civility, and a sense of self-worth but also a sense of self-control. It will break down if we just dump all the responsibility on the parents and the schools, to somehow buck the present trend all by themselves.

It may already be too late! Oh well I can afford the Hummer and the gun if it becomes necessary....

[rod_rooster]

Psyber, i never suggested that the only people who have to provide a good example are the parents. If everyone in society is bad then people will continue to be no doubt. Fact is that there are people who should be more responsible than the sports people and entertainers yet aren't. If the people who should be educating children (whether that be parents, teachers, counsellors etc.) don't steer them in the right direction it is not the fault of the young men who might slip up and make a mistake in public once in a while. FFS i think we expect a little too much of blokes who are thrust into the limelight and public eye while still children themselves.

Why should a young bloke playing football have to be responsible for setting an example when the majority of teachers are out on a Friday or Saturday night getting plastered and doing god knows what with who knows who? Easy to get all high and mighty about someone who is in the public eye but what about all those who have direct contact with our youth who set a far worse example on a much more regular basis? Perhaps the problem lies there rather than sports people or entertainers??

[Squawk]

Perhaps parents should be regulated and those not capable of looking after children properly should not be allowed to have them.

Rod - we already have laws to deal with parents who are incapable of being parents. However, did you know that a parent cannot have their child taken away from them for more than 12 months in the first instance, more than 12 months in the second instance and only then do they face having their child placed under the Guardianship of the Minister until the age of 18? And that is for EACH child, so if they have 5 kids the process has to be gone through each and every time for each individual child!

Likewise, we have laws for everyone to adhere to. If someone chooses to admonish the laws, then by and large they face the consequences. I think the issue with public figures is that they are expected to set an example to society and so the benchmark is often perceived to be higher for them.

[rod_rooster]

I think the issue with public figures is that they are expected to set an example to society and so the benchmark is often perceived to be higher for them.

Is that fair though? I'd argue that it would do more damage to a child to see their mother/father get into a position such as getting drunk, wasted on drugs, arrested etc. than hearing about a sports person or entertainer doing similar.

In the past i have seen many of my ex teachers drunk or in other situations that if they were in the public eye would be spread across the front pages of newspapers across the country. These people have a responsibility that they agree to that requires them at all times to ensure the safety of minors be it during working hours or not. Far more of a worry than a few kids who happen to be good at football having a bender or two i would think.

[Squawk]

I think the issue with public figures is that they are expected to set an example to society and so the benchmark is often perceived to be higher for them.

Is that fair though? I'd argue that it would do more damage to a child to see their mother/father get into a position such as getting drunk, wasted on drugs, arrested etc. than hearing about a sports person or entertainer doing similar.

Fair or not, it is reality. Children of inappropriate parents certainly suffer incredibly but kids are often prone to idolising people outside of their family unit, notably sports personnel and entertainers. Few psychologists or defence lawyers would offer an excuse such as "because Ben Cousins did ..... this vulnerable child fell into a life of unparalleled disaster" but most will have no trepidation about raising a childs family environment and upbringing a reason for a wayward life taking hold of that child.

Whilst the benchmark may be higher for public figures, I don't think that is unreasonable. The question is, how much higher? The AFL have elected to go to professional status and as a result, being drafted at 17 does really allow much opportunity for those kids to grow up and make mistakes in the process. The thing with someone like Cousins though is that he is now 29 and he has had the benefit of a lot of mistakes. How many mistakes is reasonable? That is the big question at hand.

[rod_rooster]

being drafted at 17 does really allow much opportunity for those kids to grow up and make mistakes in the process.

This is as big a factor as any IMHO but despite this i still think it is a cop out from society to expect sports people and entertainers to be role models for children. This responsibility should not be placed on those that don't ask for it and nor should it. I understand that bad people have children and the fact those people are not setting a good example for their kids isn't the fault of those who happen to be good at sport. Why is someone who is good at business not as heavily scrutinised??

It just seems ridiculous to me that we can have had a Prime Minister who holds the world record for sculling a yard glass yet kids who happen to good at football are expected to be better role models than that.

Personally i think the problems that celebrities have are a result of general society rather that the common misconception that societies problems are caused by the celebrities.

[Psyber]

Psyber, i never suggested that the only people who have to provide a good example are the parents. If everyone in society is bad then people will continue to be no doubt. Fact is that there are people who should be more responsible than the sports people and entertainers yet aren't. If the people who should be educating children (whether that be parents, teachers, counsellors etc.) don't steer them in the right direction it is not the fault of the young men who might slip up and make a mistake in public once in a while. FFS i think we expect a little too much of blokes who are thrust into the limelight and public eye while still children themselves.

Why should a young bloke playing football have to be responsible for setting an example when the majority of teachers are out on a Friday or Saturday night getting plastered and doing god knows what with who knows who? Easy to get all high and mighty about someone who is in the public eye but what about all those who have direct contact with our youth who set a far worse example on a much more regular basis? Perhaps the problem lies there rather than sports people or entertainers??

I have no argument with most of what you say, but we have to consider the huge impact of TV images and the "Star" mentality on malleable youth. How many people are distressed when there daugfhters start wanting to dress like Britney Spiers? Speers? - however it is spelled...

And of course if 18 year olds are children why the hell do we let them vote! I had my own key to my parents' house age 14 because they knew I was reliable.

[Dog_ger]

A "Role Model" is someone that in your eyes,

Walks on Water...!

[Mr66]

Parents.
Charles Barkley said that all entertainers & athletes owe the public, is a good peformance.

Except a lot of kids see more of people who appear on TV than they do of their parents who both have jobs! And as they get towards adolescence and become anti-parent they actively seek outside models - and then who do they get! It doesn't matter whether it is fair - public figures need to be regulated for the sake of those who may copy what they see.

I agree!
They should be regulated like their celebrity brethren in China, Cuba,North Korea,Iran etc...

[Psyber]

Parents.
Charles Barkley said that all entertainers & athletes owe the public, is a good peformance.

Except a lot of kids see more of people who appear on TV than they do of their parents who both have jobs! And as they get towards adolescence and become anti-parent they actively seek outside models - and then who do they get! It doesn't matter whether it is fair - public figures need to be regulated for the sake of those who may copy what they see.

I agree!
They should be regulated like their celebrity brethren in China, Cuba,North Korea,Iran etc...

No, just required to display reasonable standards of civilised behaviour in public.

No public drunkeness, no use or advocation of drug use, reasonable language, not openly supporting terrorism [anyone's terrorism], no violent or abusive behaviour.... You know the standard stuff that is expected of anyone else out in the public eye.

The problem is they get indulged, covered up for, and let off, until they go too far, because they are "stars" and the kids see that happening and model the behaviour and establish patterns before they see them get caught.