GINEVER GONE

[beenreal]

If the players are DOGGING IT, they are following their Master. Promote this DOG coach to the Port Power. his dummy is still on the floor after not being on their original list, despite wearing their guernsey in the media unveiling. WOOF WOOF

Pay his contract out & Sack him, can't be any more than $2 a week if performance based?

Perhaps if you gave that $2 to your own club a few years ago, they wouldn't now be called Woodville/ West Torrens!

[Zathrus]

IMO Ginever won't get sacked

1. Its not Ports style ....

I'm not certain cos its a while back, but didn't the great Russell Ebert get sacked mid year to bring back Cahill

[GWW]

IMO Ginever won't get sacked

1. Its not Ports style ....

I'm not certain cos its a while back, but didn't the great Russell Ebert get sacked mid year to bring back Cahill

i think that was after the 1987 season.

[SABRE]

Maybe Bomber Clifford's a chance to take over?

Doubt it, 'bombhead' still lives in perpetual fear and still phones (the one true) 'Macca'
for permission to move from suburb to suburb throughout Adelaide.

BOO !

Go ahead, give it a try !

[Booney]

Nasty ??? How about the REASON for the FORCED MERGER ???
PORT ADELAIDE & BRUCE WEBBER !!!
You want to talk about 'abhorent'!!! - THAT was abhorent behaviour, Booney
West Torrens was ONLY $300 000 in debt - I say only because now we 'hear' that the 'parent club' (AFL Team) is supposedly $1.3 Million in debt & wants the REST OF THE SANFL to bail it out!!!
If they (The SANFL) had the BALLS in the first place they would've;
If Port Adelaide was to have the 2nd AFL Licence;
1. Made sure NO PAFC existed in the SANFL
2. Did NOT allow the AFL Club to 'take over' Alberton Oval & its confines

The 'survival' of MY CLUB (WTFC) was NEVER seriously discussed in 1990
The decision to merge Woodville & West Torrens was considered the ONLY option.

Don't forget that this decision was AS A RESULT of the VFL Bid from Port.
To go a step further - perhaps you'd like to discuss the issue with a FITZROY Fan from over the border.
Another Club that DIED to accommodate Port Adelaide!

We West Torrens Fans have much empathy with our Fitzroy Kin.
So, I think I have EVERY right to be DIRTY on PAFC & hope that their fans (who I might add have been hanging shite on us ever since the 1991 merger - Hybrids, You're not a true club, etc. etc.), experience the PAIN of FORCED Merger or extinction!
Abhorent Attitude ???
Pfft !!!

What Port Adelaide and the late Bruce Webber did may have indirectly resulted in your club being moved into a merger, the SANFL would have dictated this take place, not Webber or the PAFC of the time. You said you were "only" $300k in debt? What would that equate to now, $7-800k? If so, how would the club ( WTFC ) with dwindling supporter/member base, less than satisfactory facilities ( deemed unsafe I believe ) have ever been able to survive. I dont think it is the fault of the PAFC that your club was forced into a merger,perhaps the SANFL saw it as the only way to keep you in the comp without comepletely "dying".

The SANFL ( more so the 9 other clubs ) would never have wanted there to be no Port Adelaide in the SANFL, for most of the 70-80's the biggest draw card to any home game, be it Richmond,Glenelg etc was when Port Adelaide played there. At that point in time Norwood, Glenelg, North and Port were the big draw cards and since 1990 when you had the opportunity to become agenuine powerhouse of the SANFL by becoming one club instead of two and you have hardly made a fist of it.Sure, you have two Premierships but your supporter base is still one of the lowest in the league.

No, Fitzroy didnt die to accomodate Port Adeliade, Fitzroy FC still exists in Melbourne and the AFL at the time was obviously moving away from suburban clubs with an eye to future revenue and TV deals. If it was Port Adelaide next in line for an AFL license or Tasmania, the Fitzroy FC in the AFL was always going to be pushed aside.

Perhaps look in your own back yard before you start throwing rubbish into mine.

[LPH]

What Port Adelaide and the late Bruce Webber did may have indirectly resulted in your club being moved into a merger, the SANFL would have dictated this take place, not Webber or the PAFC of the time. You said you were "only" $300k in debt? What would that equate to now, $7-800k? If so, how would the club ( WTFC ) with dwindling supporter/member base, less than satisfactory facilities ( deemed unsafe I believe ) have ever been able to survive. I dont think it is the fault of the PAFC that your club was forced into a merger,perhaps the SANFL saw it as the only way to keep you in the comp without comepletely "dying".

The SANFL ( more so the 9 other clubs ) would never have wanted there to be no Port Adelaide in the SANFL, for most of the 70-80's the biggest draw card to any home game, be it Richmond,Glenelg etc was when Port Adelaide played there. At that point in time Norwood, Glenelg, North and Port were the big draw cards and since 1990 when you had the opportunity to become agenuine powerhouse of the SANFL by becoming one club instead of two and you have hardly made a fist of it.Sure, you have two Premierships but your supporter base is still one of the lowest in the league.

No, Fitzroy didnt die to accomodate Port Adeliade, Fitzroy FC still exists in Melbourne and the AFL at the time was obviously moving away from suburban clubs with an eye to future revenue and TV deals. If it was Port Adelaide next in line for an AFL license or Tasmania, the Fitzroy FC in the AFL was always going to be pushed aside.

Perhaps look in your own back yard before you start throwing rubbish into mine.

Again, your perception & factual knowledge of the situation is somewhat jaded.

Fitzroy MERGED (call it a 'take over' if you like) with Brisbane... becoming the Brisbane Lions - VERY SIMILAR to the 'Woodville - West Torrens Eagles', home ground @ parent club.

Once again, you are distancing yourself (as a PAFC supporter) from the facts & trying to 'muddy the waters' by saying; " ...for most of the 70-80's the biggest draw card to any home game, be it Richmond,Glenelg etc was when Port Adelaide played there..."

Your point on 'debt' & supporter base is laughable considering the current average attendances of PAFC @ home matches.

That is IMMATERIAL to the current arguement & quite frankly TYPICAL of your supporters mindset ( cake & eat it too??? ) - PAFC & PAMFC
The current problems associated with BOTH those clubs are a DIRECT result of Bruce Webber & PAFC's actions during the '80s.
For their OWN SELFISH REASONS - your club was prepared to UNDERMINE the SANFL's stance on joining the VFL (let's face it, it STILL IS the VFL).

As a result of PAFC's actions, the following occurred;

1. 2 SANFL clubs were forced to merge & a BYE was introduced
2. PAFC continued in the SANFL & the 'F**K the Crows campaign' began - remember the T-Shirts?
3. Scott Hodges held out for MORE MONEY (no doubt getting an 'ear full' from his father-in-law) before committing to the Crows
4. After the continual rumblings "Port for the AFL" campaign - clearly designed to undermine the decision on the 2nd licence & foster the support from 'over the border' - some patethicly incompetent bids were put together by Norwood / Sturt & the 'cartel'
5. PAFC was given the licence - based on among other things "attracting 35 K + every week to home games (I see that's still happening)
6. PAMFC was 'born' - I am still unsure which of the 2 clubs can lay claim the this so called 'Creed' of yours - very damaging promotion campaign IMHO as it alienates 'neutral' football followers in this state
7. PAFC took over Alberton Oval & forced the Magpies to move premises - to Ethelton & took the revenue from the licenced 'Port Club'
8. The gradual decline of PAMFC as a result

Now IRONICALLY, PAFC are 'crying poor' & wanting help from the SANFL Clubs - I wonder (based on their current predicament) if PAMFC are keen to reduce any potential earnings from the 2nd AFL Licencee - in order to 'ease the burden' on PAFC ??? I wonder if there is not a 'pulling on the heart strings' over this issue.

Finally, I will say this;

Am I bitter & twisted over my club DIEING (& that's what happend to BOTH West Torrens & Fitzroy Football Clubs)? - YES !!!

Do I have ANY sympathy for Port Adelaide's current woes (both PAFC & PAMFC) - NO (& why should I ?) - The SANFL will go on without them - perhaps not in it's current format, but it WILL go on.

All of you can make judgement about my rants - that is your right.
But to accuse me of 'not being hurt by the forced merger of my club' is 'ABHORENT' in the extreme.

[JK]

I don't think you can blame the fate of Torrens and Woodville on the Port Adelaide movement mate, the fact remains that if both clubs (or maybe just one of them) were healthy enough they could have survived in their own right, as the other 8 did.

Understandable that any Torrens or Woodville supporters would be cut by the happenings at the time, but I think you need to first point the bone at your own clubs underperformance in an area or 2.

Don't get me wrong, happy for you to hate Port Adelaide, but I think some balance needs to come into the discussion.

[am Bays]

Gee Boon you not going to let him get away with that are you???

[Wedgie]

Crikey, I love laying the boot into Port at any opportunity (probably done it 119 times) but Torrens were broke and a financial basketcase well before 1990.
The fact that they were broke and the fact that Woodville just rolled over has little to do with Port.
Did the Eagles get a win or is it a full moon this week or both?

[Dogwatcher]

I blame Tim Ginever for the WWT merger. It was palinly his fault as he is coaching Port now.

[StrayDog]

Can't speak for the thinking of the SANFL in the late 1950s but prima facie, based on on-field results at least, shoe-horning another side into the western suburbs did neither West Adelaide nor West Torrens any favours.

I don't think events circa 1990 are entirely to blame for Torrens' eventual merger.

(Sorry Woodville fans - wasn't meant as a slight.)

[once_were_warriors]

Torrens were a financial wreck way before the issue of an AFL team coming to Adelaide. I can't see how Port can be blamed for this.

The reason for the merger from both clubs perspective:

Torrens: massive debts and were non viable due to this . ( Some could argue that the SANFL could have helped them more since they owned 1/10th of the SANFL assets)

Woodville: Financially Ok , success starved. I think as a club we panicked over the effect of an Adelaide AFL club upon the viabilty of the SANFL competition, could have retained own identity and continued in the SANFL.

The issue of Port in the AFL and their debt: they need to sort their own house out first and get more to the games.

The Revenue of the SANFL fluctuates and is predominantly determined by the number that go to the AFL games. I have a big problem of Port receiving handouts to be substainable due to low crowds as this will over time tend to be accepted and potentially effect the divedend to the SANFL clubs. What Port get in renegotiation Adelaide will want and the SANFL clubs slice of the pie will become less

[LPH]

Crikey, I love laying the boot into Port at any opportunity (probably done it 119 times) but Torrens were broke and a financial basketcase well before 1990.
The fact that they were broke and the fact that Woodville just rolled over has little to do with Port.
Did the Eagles get a win or is it a full moon this week or both?

Granted, the financial status of West Torrens was ordinary (to say the least) but ...

The fact remains that had the SANFL not had its 'hand forced', by having to quickly join the competition it had so wanted to join later NOT sooner by PAFC (& Webber), then West Torrens may well have survived in its own right.

West Torrens could've easily had monies provided in 'loans' or whatever to have stood on their feet, but ...

Webber & PAFC's UNDERHANDED, SELFISH actions put pay to any of the SANFLs plans - SA would've joined the competition (no question) but we would'ver joined on OUR TERMS not the VFL's... WTFC & WFC's merger was 'rushed' due to the fear of the SANFL 'falling over' as a result.

That FACT can ont be denied

[Ronnie]

Ironically both Woodville and Torrens' demise came just before the introduction of gaming machine licences which changed the landscape dramatically for SANFL clubs.
Who knows what may have happened if they could have held on until the introduction of the pokies in 1994 (i think) maybe Torrens would not have lasted that long anyway.
it did seem though that Woodville and Torrens rolled over very quickly.

[JK]

Crikey, I love laying the boot into Port at any opportunity (probably done it 119 times) but Torrens were broke and a financial basketcase well before 1990.
The fact that they were broke and the fact that Woodville just rolled over has little to do with Port.
Did the Eagles get a win or is it a full moon this week or both?

Granted, the financial status of West Torrens was ordinary (to say the least) but ...

The fact remains that had the SANFL not had its 'hand forced', by having to quickly join the competition it had so wanted to join later NOT sooner by PAFC (& Webber), then West Torrens may well have survived in its own right.

West Torrens could've easily had monies provided in 'loans' or whatever to have stood on their feet, but ...

Webber & PAFC's UNDERHANDED, SELFISH actions put pay to any of the SANFLs plans - SA would've joined the competition (no question) but we would'ver joined on OUR TERMS not the VFL's... WTFC & WFC's merger was 'rushed' due to the fear of the SANFL 'falling over' as a result.

That FACT can ont be denied

The easy way out is to blame someone else .. At the end of the day your club could have dictated it's own fate.

Granted as per OOW's post, perhaps the SANFL could have provided some form of assistance, but you'd have to ask why they didn't? Most likely they looked at a business plan and thought any investment would be wasted when all it was expected to do was buy time for the club and not save it.

You don't need to create reasons to hate Port, there's enough legitimate one's out there

[LPH]

I'm not creating reasons to hate Port - I always have even when Torrens were viable, but...

I was questioned as to my 'true hurt' over the merger.
I made a comment that they (PAMFC) should be forced to merge or die... their CURRENT financial status?

I no longer support West Torrens - I support Woodville - West Torrens Football Club, a club that is 18 years old.

Is Port Adelaide Magpies 100 + or 13 years old?
Is Port Adelaide Power 100 + or 13 years old?

Creed ??? Tradition ??? 1870 ???

The Creed should read " We will do everything we can to better the position & status of the PAFC, regardless of the IMPACT on the competition we are in or the financial burden on the other SANFL clubs"

Pfft !!!

[Booney]

LMAO.

The reason I questioned you initially was you had stated you would be happy to see the PAMFC die. With all the other rubbish you have introduced to the argument like Scott Hodges and his father-in-law ( what that has to do with anything I dont know ), the fact is I dont think you were really that hurt by the merger.

I know if you were really, really hurt by it you would not wish it upon any other football fan, you would not want any other football follower to go through what you did. I am sure Fitzroy fans ( although having a Brisbane Lion out fit to follow ) would not wish it upon anyone else.

Now if you want to blame the PAFC for that and it makes you sleep better at night, sure, go for it. To be honest, I dont care what you think of Port Adelaide , the Port Adelaide Magpies or the "creed" that in all honesty could be used as a generic platform for all clubs to work upon. Perhaps if any one Blue, Yellow or Green had the balls to stand up and make a stance for what they think was the right thing to do ( as Webber did way back when ) and be it right or wrong at least he stood up for himself, his club and was not going to stand by and let his club be dictated to by others. Perhaps in 1989 if anyone at Woodville or West Torrens truly, truly believed they could go on without a merger you would still be two clubs today.

Rolling over belly up is not the Port Adelaide way, some clubs just do.....

[LPH]

LMAO.

Rolling over belly up is not the Port Adelaide way, some clubs just do.....

No... they just go 'cap in hand' looking for preferential treatment when it all goes pear shaped !!!

Hypocrites !!!

[Booney]

Preferential or equitable....?

[once_were_warriors]

Port (AFL) need to be financially accountable

SANFL need to be financially practical