Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:56 pm

So jimmy, how do you get a visa in Afghanistan?
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:57 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:
Q. wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:Not publicising the boats coming into Australia has very little, if any, impact on asylum seekers travelling to Australia.


That's because most come by plane.


They all have visas Q - different problem


Yes, but these represent the much higher proportion of asylum seekers who prove to not be genuine and do not gain refugee status.

Cheers
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:57 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:go through the process.
You either do it in another country or here, but you have to prove your claim.
And if you do it here; don't expect 5 star treatment.


100% correct. Except boat arrivals aren't ever settled here, in direct contravention of the convention.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:06 pm

bulldogproud2 wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:Don't get me wrong - I actually believe in allowing more refugees into the country does not mean asylum seekers.
Refugees are not refugees until proven as such.

Of course they are going to state they fear for their lives.
They have to say that and they have been told to say that or it's no entry.
We have every right to investigate whether that is true or not.

I'm talking $5-6k per person to get here.
Allowing people to think they can easily get in is only fuelling the rip-off.
It doesn't matter if one or more people contribute.
If we let people think you can just jump on a boat and you get in, then it is just going to get worse.
Not accepting them in the country until they are processed and their claims to refugee status are justified will make people think twice about paying the money.
Publicizing that you are going to an offshore detention centre will make people think twice about trying.
Not publicizing boats landing here will make people think twice about trying.

I'm really not sure what you want - completely open borders?
If so, you are completely out of step with the majority of Australians.
Let's just scrap visas and let everyone in

And, sorry, (even if I sound like Scott Morrison) being illiterate, or not speaking English, is no excuse to avoid a country's laws.
If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to fill in the form.

It still gets down to the promises made to these people to take their money and we should be doing everything to show those promises are false, and that's what we are doing.


Jimmy,
Re them stating that they are fearing for their lives, yes, they will tell the government that. However, why tell a journalist this if it is not true? The journalist has no say in their ability to get into Australia. Because they have been told to say it to get into the country and they know it will be published. The journalist has not checked the veracity of their claim
As for my views re letting asylum seekers in: I fully support processing. However, I do not think that they should have to wait 30 years to be processed! I think that they should be able to be fully processed within a six month period. I also support processing centres being established in Indonesia to lower the amount travelling by boats. Agreed, but maybe it takes longer to check out someone without a passport. It's not our risk - it's there's. They are not coming in until everything is properly checked. Tough, but too bad. That's the risk they take.
Not publicising the boats coming into Australia has very little, if any, impact on asylum seekers travelling to Australia. It is typhoon season currently and that is why there are very few boats coming. Wait until April and you will see that the boats have definitely not stopped. Maybe not, but I haven't seen any evidence to support whether it is working or not. Anything is worth a try especially if it is part of an overall plan. Some people just want it to fail for their own reasons.
From what you write, it always appears that Australia is being swamped by asylum seekers. Do not forget that we are 46th on the list. Surely, as a well developed nation, we should be doing more about this problem, should we not? Good point (which I have previously raised about just opening up the borders to anyone) Let's hope we dont get to No 1 and that's why we are doing what we are. We control our borders, and the no. of refugees we allow in, not them
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:09 pm

Once again implicit in your reasoning is that these people are doing something wrong by coming here.

This idea was started by the Abbott government (and later adopted by labor too) to appeal to the xenophobic element of our country which is unfortunately quite a lot
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:12 pm

bulldogproud2 wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:
Q. wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:Not publicising the boats coming into Australia has very little, if any, impact on asylum seekers travelling to Australia.


That's because most come by plane.


They all have visas Q - different problem


Yes, but these represent the much higher proportion of asylum seekers who prove to not be genuine and do not gain refugee status.

Cheers


BUT, they have entered the country legally with a visa: Big difference
Try turning up to any country by plane without a passport or proper visa - bye bye
And, when caught overstaying it, are sent to a detention centre to be processed, or are sent home (ie) the Indian detainee
I have no sympathy for them either (although I did exactly the same thing in the UK in my younger years)

I ask again: do you want just open borders and let anyone in?
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:15 pm

bennymacca wrote:Once again implicit in your reasoning is that these people are doing something wrong by coming here.


Yep: Application attached again

You either fill it in at home or go to one of our offshore centres to fill it in. Your choice
Either way, you're going to fill one in, prove who you are, and prove you are what you say you are.
There is no advantage turning up here unless you need a roof over your head whilst you wait.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby tigerpie » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:34 pm

Ok, so we all agree there is no queue and that there is a process in place to establish their claim.
This process must be thorough and the guidelines strictly adhered to for 3 reasons.

1. That they are fleeing their country of origin because they are genuinely being persecuted, life endangered etc.

2. Are they fleeing their country of origin to escape the law. Christopher Skase like or worse....war criminal etc.

3. Do they just want to migrate here for a better life and dont want to wait their turn.

If i was a person from point 1 i'd just be happy to be escaping with my life, and/or families lives, and would patiently wait my turn. Sure, conditions arent 5 star but hey its gotta be better than waking up dead or in some concentration camp being tortured daily.

I think its people from points 2 and 3 that take up all the processing time, hence the long wait for the genuines. And i dont want anybody from this category in my country at all ever.

Call me xenophic or whatever label you like, i'm glad we are being diligent and checking EVERYONES claims fairly.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:40 pm

Must be us Collingwood supporters
Q is just Q. Nothing to do with his allegiance to Collingwood
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:05 pm

Tigerpie more than 90% of boat arrivals are assessed as genuine refugees.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:18 pm

tigerpie wrote:Call me xenophic or whatever label you like, i'm glad we are being diligent and checking EVERYONES claims fairly.


It's not xenophobic. No doubt we should be diligent, process boat arrivals onshore like we process plane arrivals and save us from political point scoring and wasted taxpayer dollars.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:20 pm

The inability to secure a passport, and therefore, a visa, should not preclude someone from seeking asylum.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Psyber » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:30 pm

An aside to the main thrust of debate here but I think it is relevant to our immigration issues and public attitudes.
This is about the third similar report I've read from Sydney in the last several weeks: http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/21561706 ... -on-train/

Is it a cultural issue about women travelling alone, not escorted by male relatives, being by definition "approachable"?

In 1993, my wife was in Paris with her daughter (my step-daughter) and had a similar experience while walking alone to a cafe in Monmarte for breakfast at 7 in the morning. The guy, whom she recognised as middle-eastern, spoke to her in accented French, and she was able to be assertive in better French.
Then he then looked embarrassed and apologised.

I heard nothing about it until she got home and told it as an amusing incident, but not everyone would have handled it as confidently.
EPIGENETICS - Lamarck was right!
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:46 pm

Q. wrote:
tigerpie wrote:Call me xenophic or whatever label you like, i'm glad we are being diligent and checking EVERYONES claims fairly.


It's not xenophobic. No doubt we should be diligent, process boat arrivals onshore like we process plane arrivals and save us from political point scoring and wasted taxpayer dollars.


Totally agree Q
When you arrive at one of our airports without a proper visa, you are put straight back on the next available plane to your debarkation point.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:49 pm

bennymacca wrote:Tigerpie more than 90% of boat arrivals are assessed as genuine refugees.


I'm beginning to doubt that figure
I'm reading 90% from Afghanistan; not total

And, if true, the 10% is enough to ensure we process everyone properly
I bet 100% of those who submit a proper application, get refugee status, and arrive here are genuine refugees.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:50 pm

im not sure why you are arguing for processing jimmy, noone is suggesting that they shouldnt be processed.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:51 pm

bennymacca wrote:im not sure why you are arguing for processing jimmy, noone is suggesting that they shouldnt be processed.


Not my point at all.
I'm pretty sure I've made my points very clear.
Some people say say sinking boats mean we should help them arrive here. I say give them no hope of landing. One encourages them, the other discourages them. No-one drowns if they don't try. The more people who are allowed onshore, the more people will try because the snakeheads will encourage them to make more money. Show shipwrecks, sharks and big crocs in documentaries in the big 4 countries to discourage them paying money to get here.

I'm a hardliner for border security and agree with the Govt that trying to enter this country should give you no advantage over those who do not.
I have also lived in countries with far harsher views than I have: Hong Kong and Malaysia. You are detained in HK and deported. You get whipped in Malaysia for illegally entering the country or overstaying your visa. Malaysia dont have problems with people entering illegally or overstaying their visa.
I have also lived in the UK and seen what massive illegal immigration does to a country.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:05 am

FFS it is not illegal to seek asylum. Stop calling them fking illegal immigrants.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:17 am

eerrrr, I didn't: I have never said it is illegal to seek asylum.
Maybe read what I wrote: I talked about getting whipped for illegally entering the country in Malaysia and massive illegal immigration in the UK.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby tigerpie » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:28 am

bennymacca wrote:Tigerpie more than 90% of boat arrivals are assessed as genuine refugees.

So that leaves 10%.
If 9 out of 10 cars went through QA and were deemed roadworthy and 1 of them didnt and was found to be unroadworhty would it be ok to just let it pass?
I think not.
Hence we have a process!
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