Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby shoe boy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:30 am

From the past discussions of this issue, and other reading, I believe arriving in a country without appropriate documents, and any visas required, is technically, "illegal entry". However, I understand the UN convention we have signed requires us to not punish people for "illegal entry" if they claim to be refugees, but to examine their case instead.[/quote]

There is the issue and we are looking more like red necks every day.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:27 am

Psyber wrote:From the past discussions of this issue, and other reading, I believe arriving in a country without appropriate documents, and any visas required, is technically, "illegal entry". However, I understand the UN convention we have signed requires us to not punish people for "illegal entry" if they claim to be refugees, but to examine their case instead.


so i think what you have said is basically correct

Innocence of refugees unlawfully entering the country of refuge

A refugee has the right to be free from penalties pertaining to the illegality of their entry to or presence within a country, if it can be shown that they acted in good faith- that is, if the refugee believes that there was ample cause for their illegal entry/presence, i.e. to escape threats upon their life or freedom, and if they swiftly declare their presence. This right is protected in Article 31:
"The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence. (Article 31, (1))



calling them "illegal immigrants" is completely wrong though, as the liberal party have done time and time again.
im no lawyer, but it also would seem to me that we are pretty clearly breaking this convention by not letting genuine refugees settle in australia after they have been processed. it would seem to me forcing them to settle in PNG after their claims have been processed, even when they have been granted refugee status, breaks the above convention.

makes me angry and sad that we, as a country can treat other people like this.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby woodublieve12 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:34 am

THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:55 am

woodublieve12 wrote:THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


australia also prides itself on being the "lucky country" where everyone can come out here and get a fair go, no matter where you come from or what your past was.

unless, it seems, you are not a white christian.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby tigerpie » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:46 pm

bennymacca wrote:
woodublieve12 wrote:THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


australia also prides itself on being the "lucky country" where everyone can come out here and get a fair go, no matter where you come from or what your past was.

unless, it seems, you are not a white christian.

Oh please....its not religion or culture based.
Why should people with the cash get here when other more worse off refugees have to wait in camps because of the cue jumpers.
Stupid post!
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby The Sleeping Giant » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:01 pm

Only a white Christian would say Australia isn't religious based.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:50 pm

tigerpie wrote:Why should people with the cash get here when other more worse off refugees have to wait in camps because of the cue jumpers.
Stupid post!


firstly, if you are going to call someone stupid, at least make sure you can spell queue.

when you say "afford" to get here, most of them literally spend their whole family's life savings to get one family member out here, and then hope to bring the rest out when they save up enough money. this is how desperate they are.

and im not sure about you, but if i had a shot at not living in a refugee camp, i would do whatever i could.

there was a show on SBS called go back to where you came from, i encourage you to watch it. they depicted a sudanese lady who was in a refugee camp in kenya, where they literally slept on the floor under a tarp. no clean water. they got rice once a day, but quite often the gangs of men would come and steal it from her just after she got it. her and both her daughters had been repeatedly raped. if i remember correctly she now had HIV.

but yet you are telling me she should sit there and politely wait her turn? put yourself in her shoes for a second. what do you think you would do? would you sit there and be like fk me, i better wait my turn? of course not, you are going to do everything you can to get to safety.

and before you say well you could catch a plane here, well thats more problematic than you think too. if you are being persecuted in your own country, you cant exactly rock up at the airport with all of your id cards etc, you are basically waving a massive sign saying come and kill me!

so thats why these people travel overland from places like afghanistan, to pakistan, india, malaysia, indonesia.

the problem then is, none of those countries are signatories to the UN refugee convention, which means if they are caught they can be deported straight away. so you cant jump on a plane at any of these countries either.

so what are you left with? paying some people smuggler your whole life savings for one shot at a country that will have you. but lol, jokes on them, we send them off to squalid conditions in papua new guinea never to set foot in australia.

and before you say well there is plenty of other countries they can go to, well yes thats also true. but do a bit of googling and you can find places like turkey, jordan and greece are straining massively with the problem of refugees.

i read somewhere (ill have to find it) that the official population of greece is 10 million or so, and they have 1 MILLION refugees or other illegal residents. now that is a problem. a few thousand arrivals into one of the richest countries in the world is almost a non issue, unless you want to politicise it for your own gain, which is what abbott did with his "stop the boats" mantra which appealed to the lowest common denominator in australia, white racist bogans who believe they own the country and forgot that them, or one of their previous generations also came here, a lot of them in similar circumstances.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby Gozu » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:05 pm

Excellent post, bennymacca!
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:21 pm

the other thing i had forgot to mention about that lady in the refugee camp, is that she had been there for 7 years.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby shoe boy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:38 pm

Tonys mate Pyne at it again!!! If he has his way kids will be singing "god save the queen" before class! :evil:
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:43 pm

yeah, apparently we need to forget about our in asia, even though we are, forget about the aboriginal history of our land, and focus on how awesome we are as part of the western world!!
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:43 pm

scott morrisson is a cartoon supervillain

http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/5- ... llain/788/
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby Leaping Lindner » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:51 pm

shoe boy wrote:Tonys mate Pyne at it again!!! If he has his way kids will be singing "god save the queen" before class! :evil:


Cool! 8) And the line "no future for you" would be quite apt. :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrAPOZxgzU
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby RustyCage » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:56 pm

The Pissweak Poodle obviously has no clue about what is actually taught in schools
I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby tigerpie » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:13 pm

bennymacca wrote:
tigerpie wrote:Why should people with the cash get here when other more worse off refugees have to wait in camps because of the cue jumpers.
Stupid post!


firstly, if you are going to call someone stupid, at least make sure you can spell queue.

when you say "afford" to get here, most of them literally spend their whole family's life savings to get one family member out here, and then hope to bring the rest out when they save up enough money. this is how desperate they are.

and im not sure about you, but if i had a shot at not living in a refugee camp, i would do whatever i could.

there was a show on SBS called go back to where you came from, i encourage you to watch it. they depicted a sudanese lady who was in a refugee camp in kenya, where they literally slept on the floor under a tarp. no clean water. they got rice once a day, but quite often the gangs of men would come and steal it from her just after she got it. her and both her daughters had been repeatedly raped. if i remember correctly she now had HIV.

but yet you are telling me she should sit there and politely wait her turn? put yourself in her shoes for a second. what do you think you would do? would you sit there and be like fk me, i better wait my turn? of course not, you are going to do everything you can to get to safety.

and before you say well you could catch a plane here, well thats more problematic than you think too. if you are being persecuted in your own country, you cant exactly rock up at the airport with all of your id cards etc, you are basically waving a massive sign saying come and kill me!

so thats why these people travel overland from places like afghanistan, to pakistan, india, malaysia, indonesia.

the problem then is, none of those countries are signatories to the UN refugee convention, which means if they are caught they can be deported straight away. so you cant jump on a plane at any of these countries either.

so what are you left with? paying some people smuggler your whole life savings for one shot at a country that will have you. but lol, jokes on them, we send them off to squalid conditions in papua new guinea never to set foot in australia.

and before you say well there is plenty of other countries they can go to, well yes thats also true. but do a bit of googling and you can find places like turkey, jordan and greece are straining massively with the problem of refugees.

i read somewhere (ill have to find it) that the official population of greece is 10 million or so, and they have 1 MILLION refugees or other illegal residents. now that is a problem. a few thousand arrivals into one of the richest countries in the world is almost a non issue, unless you want to politicise it for your own gain, which is what abbott did with his "stop the boats" mantra which appealed to the lowest common denominator in australia, white racist bogans who believe they own the country and forgot that them, or one of their previous generations also came here, a lot of them in similar circumstances.

I didnt call YOU stupid, your post was.
To infer we only allow certain cultures and religions in this country on refugee status is a stupid comment.
The lady you refer to has probably had to stay put, as all the QUEUE jumpers have taken her spot.

So do you QUEUE up at the checkout or just push in because you think you are more important than evryone else?
Sorry but all refugees have to wait their turn!
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bennymacca » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:17 pm

The fact that you are equating shopping checkout etiquette to a refugee camp where people get raped and get HIV is just a little ignorant. I really do encourage you to watch the go back to where you came from show, I'm sure it will change your mind.
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby tigerpie » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:51 pm

Its the same thing....in principle.
You mentioned Greece, would you like us to be in the same situation as them.
There has to be a process or would you prefer open slather.
I understand conditions in these camps are deplorable. To say i am ignorant to this fact is once again.....stupid!
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby The Sleeping Giant » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:01 pm

bennymacca wrote:The fact that you are equating shopping checkout etiquette to a refugee camp where people get raped and get HIV is just a little ignorant. I really do encourage you to watch the go back to where you came from show, I'm sure it will change your mind.


Isn't that whom ever is in charge of that camps fault?
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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby bulldogproud2 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:49 am

tigerpie wrote:
bennymacca wrote:
tigerpie wrote:Why should people with the cash get here when other more worse off refugees have to wait in camps because of the cue jumpers.
Stupid post!


firstly, if you are going to call someone stupid, at least make sure you can spell queue.

when you say "afford" to get here, most of them literally spend their whole family's life savings to get one family member out here, and then hope to bring the rest out when they save up enough money. this is how desperate they are.

and im not sure about you, but if i had a shot at not living in a refugee camp, i would do whatever i could.

there was a show on SBS called go back to where you came from, i encourage you to watch it. they depicted a sudanese lady who was in a refugee camp in kenya, where they literally slept on the floor under a tarp. no clean water. they got rice once a day, but quite often the gangs of men would come and steal it from her just after she got it. her and both her daughters had been repeatedly raped. if i remember correctly she now had HIV.

but yet you are telling me she should sit there and politely wait her turn? put yourself in her shoes for a second. what do you think you would do? would you sit there and be like fk me, i better wait my turn? of course not, you are going to do everything you can to get to safety.

and before you say well you could catch a plane here, well thats more problematic than you think too. if you are being persecuted in your own country, you cant exactly rock up at the airport with all of your id cards etc, you are basically waving a massive sign saying come and kill me!

so thats why these people travel overland from places like afghanistan, to pakistan, india, malaysia, indonesia.

the problem then is, none of those countries are signatories to the UN refugee convention, which means if they are caught they can be deported straight away. so you cant jump on a plane at any of these countries either.

so what are you left with? paying some people smuggler your whole life savings for one shot at a country that will have you. but lol, jokes on them, we send them off to squalid conditions in papua new guinea never to set foot in australia.

and before you say well there is plenty of other countries they can go to, well yes thats also true. but do a bit of googling and you can find places like turkey, jordan and greece are straining massively with the problem of refugees.

i read somewhere (ill have to find it) that the official population of greece is 10 million or so, and they have 1 MILLION refugees or other illegal residents. now that is a problem. a few thousand arrivals into one of the richest countries in the world is almost a non issue, unless you want to politicise it for your own gain, which is what abbott did with his "stop the boats" mantra which appealed to the lowest common denominator in australia, white racist bogans who believe they own the country and forgot that them, or one of their previous generations also came here, a lot of them in similar circumstances.

I didnt call YOU stupid, your post was.
To infer we only allow certain cultures and religions in this country on refugee status is a stupid comment.
The lady you refer to has probably had to stay put, as all the QUEUE jumpers have taken her spot.

So do you QUEUE up at the checkout or just push in because you think you are more important than evryone else?
Sorry but all refugees have to wait their turn!


Unfortunately you are showing your total ignorance of the asylum seeker/refugee situation by talking about queues. What do you think happens?? Do you think that people in refugee camps take a number and all form an ordered queue?? Does each one get given a number between 1 and 6 million?? Do they then compare the length of the queue at each camp throughout the world and work out what camp should have a refugee leave next?? There is no such thing as that. It is unfortunately mainly luck (or bad luck) that dictates how long an individual spends in a refugee camp. Some may be in the camp for 20 years, some for 10, some for 5, some are lucky enough to spend only a month or so there.
Additionally, in many countries there are no refugee camps at all. For instance, those leaving Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria (so in other words 90% of people seeking asylum in Australia) have no camps to go to. The only way that they can flee their horrible circumstances is to have all their family members save up the ($2 000 on average) money that it takes to go on a boat and risk their lives in travelling across.

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Re: Abbott Watch

Postby Bully » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:39 am

bennymacca wrote:The fact that you are equating shopping checkout etiquette to a refugee camp where people get raped and get HIV is just a little ignorant. I really do encourage you to watch the go back to where you came from show, I'm sure it will change your mind.



can you enlighten me again on how you would deal with the 'asylum seekers' trying to come to Australia then?

As you seem to have an answer for everyone and everything.
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