AFL RESERVES

[CUTTERMAN]

Tried to find a previous topic but none came up readily. Feel free to move it if need be.

With this issue gaining another media push I feel that there are major complications and issues that need to be discussed as to how this can be handled and direct effects to clubs, AFL & SANFL. The main complications lie with the PAFC.

Scenario 1.
Power & Adelaide both have reserves teams playing in the SANFL, as a condition to this both AFL clubs have agreed not to play for Premiership points, but the SANFL keep ownership of both licenses, as a result of this the Port Magpies have given up the chance to ever win another SANFL flag and consolidate their future in the AFL.
I have only suggested this scenario as I think it will only go forward with this clause as part of it.

Scenario 2.
Both AFL clubs field reserves teams in the VFL as a deal cannot be agreed to concerning the SANFL who have since returned both licenses to the AFL or private ownership. The AFL vows to provide both clubs with extra funding to cover costs of their reserves teams. As an added clause to this the AFL demand that the PAFC do not field a team in the SANFL. Port supporters realize that they will never see their team play another SANFL game let alone win another SANFL flag.

Scenario 3.
The AFL set up a national reserves competition which both AFL clubs join. The SANFL no longer hold AFL licences in return for having seats on a newly set up Australian Rules National Governing Committee as have the WAFL. Due to funding restrictions, the PAFC have chosen in agreement with the SANFL that the best result for all is that the PAFC cut all ties with the SANFL competition and thus Port Adelaide supporters will never see the Prison Bar guernsey again.

Scenario 4.
Things remain the same with both AFL clubs having their players distributed across the SANFL.

These are obviously hypothetical, but I think some crucial issues and consequences rear up. Most that aren't beneficial to your traditional Port or SANFL supporter. To be honest, if both AFL clubs want reserves teams they will have to make some pretty big compromises, the main ones will lie with the PAFC because of their long history in the SANFL, these will not be easy and are likely to cause more division within the PAFC and their supporter base, between the PAFC & the SANFL and within the SANFL itself.

I hope this can be discussed in a positive manner.

[Pseudo]

FFS - this has been done to death, with much "positive" commentary.

And I say it again: I personally will never - NEVER - attend a SANFL game featuring AFL rubbish teams.

If those Frankenstein clubs need reserves then let them be fielded in some lesser league. Leave the SANFL alone.

[Tassie Blues]

I think it’s something that has to happen for both AFL teams to become more competitive in AFL and player development. The way I see it is Power will have Magpies as reserves side that’s a no brainier. Crows will either need to have new side in SANFL taking it to a 10 team comp (no more 2 byes in the first 4 weeks of a season) or will use a current SANFL team as the reserves side.

If they go with a current SANFL side it couldn’t be Centrals or South due to distance from West Lakes so that leaves Glenelg, North, Norwood, Sturt, West and WWT. I’m not going to pick one but all are within 20km and about 30 min from West Lakes.

Some of the issue are going to be what happens when the crows/power take a young player from an SANFL club they would then change to a new AFL/SANFL club and if they don’t get on the main AFL list or they are not up to AFL standard do they keep playing for the AFL/SANFL club or go back to their original SANFL club. Also do the AFL/SANFL clubs have a SANFL salary cap? And is it the same or more than the other SANFL clubs? Does that cap include payment from playing AFL games?

I’m sure there are hundreds of other issues associated with this topic but I think it’s an interesting one.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Bas been proven you don't need a reserve side to be successful.

[Grahaml]

I think it’s something that has to happen for both AFL teams to become more competitive in AFL and player development. The way I see it is Power will have Magpies as reserves side that’s a no brainier. Crows will either need to have new side in SANFL taking it to a 10 team comp (no more 2 byes in the first 4 weeks of a season) or will use a current SANFL team as the reserves side.

If they go with a current SANFL side it couldn’t be Centrals or South due to distance from West Lakes so that leaves Glenelg, North, Norwood, Sturt, West and WWT. I’m not going to pick one but all are within 20km and about 30 min from West Lakes.

Some of the issue are going to be what happens when the crows/power take a young player from an SANFL club they would then change to a new AFL/SANFL club and if they don’t get on the main AFL list or they are not up to AFL standard do they keep playing for the AFL/SANFL club or go back to their original SANFL club. Also do the AFL/SANFL clubs have a SANFL salary cap? And is it the same or more than the other SANFL clubs? Does that cap include payment from playing AFL games?

I’m sure there are hundreds of other issues associated with this topic but I think it’s an interesting one.

Lol. What a poorly thought through post. You really think the SANFL clubs are going to decide to compromise themselves and their competition to possibly, maybe help a couple kids be a little better when they go into the AFL? How much is having control over a reserves team really worth? It might not even be any advantage at all, yet you want to rip the heart out of the SANFL and use it purely to help Port lose by a couple less points a game? However strongly the AFL clubs want it, the SANFL still have control of themselves (unless they sold it to Demetriou when I wasn't watching) so solve that issue before worrying about nonsense like salary caps.

[Sojourner]

Its been tried and failed in the WAFL allocating all the players to two specific sides. I cant see it working here for the same reasons.

Another option is for the Cows and the Smears to field their sides in the SANFL Reserves Competition.... McDermott wrote an interesting article once about resurrecting the Woodville Woodpeckers for a similar purpose and as I recall the Manager of the North Adelaide FC stated that he would be keen to explore his options with the Adelaide Crows if Port were to be the Reserves side in the SANFL and the Crows were to be given the same....

[PhilH]

League sides exist to win premierships

Reserves sides exist to develop players to a league standard


If your league competition has any value you mix the two at your peril.


Across the spectrum of AFL "surplus" players there is a large discrepancy of experience, skills and development needs. ie your new rookie listed players to your 23rd best.

If they are all in one team do you
- end up playing young kids at a standard they are not ready for
or
- have fringe players not being challenged because the games are too easy

That said if Crows or Power really think there is value is this let them play in a Reserves comp like the VFL, SANFL Reserves or a new AFL reserves comp.

[CUTTERMAN]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

[whufc]

Personally i think there are only two realistic options that may occur.

1/ Its AFL driven and they want all teams to have a reserves side than a national reserves comp is the way to go for them. AFL team lists would have to be extended but they could have a similar rule to the A-League where you need to have X amount of players under a certain age. eg, being they could have the current lists plus being able to draft 10 extra 18 or under kids. If something like this went ahead you may see a serious attempt by a Port Melbourne type club join the SANFL.

2/I would prefer that option to go ahead rather than if its just Power/Crows driven which will result in their two side playing in the SANFL league comp. Port Magpies would become the Powers reserves side and the Crows would have their own side. They would play in the League comp (no way would the AFL clubs have them in the ressies) and play for premiership points.

For me option number 2 would be absolute worse case scenario and would be awful for the comp. Option 1 i could handle. It would see the end of the Foxtel Cup as Foxtel would be able to show reserves comp games before AFL games.

[topsywaldron]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

Port Magpies supporters obviously are, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of killing the Magpies off last year.

[Booney]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

Port Magpies supporters obviously are, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of killing the Magpies off last year.

If ( and I dont see it ever happening ) this ever happened, why would the Magpies not remain just that, the Magpies, and be a Port Adelaides AFL reserves?

[MightyEagles]

I prefer a AFL reserves comp, so the 18 clubs can develop the players to the style of play that club plays and to leave the SANFL alone.

[Dutchy]

NRL, A-League and State cricket has a national reserves league, why is it so hard for the AFL?

[whufc]

NRL, A-League and State cricket has a national reserves league, why is it so hard for the AFL?

Because the AFL is a business with sport on the side, it would cost them lots of money to run an AFL reserves league when they could just screw the states leagues for alot less.

[FlyingHigh]

NRL, A-League and State cricket has a national reserves league, why is it so hard for the AFL?

Because football stirs the soul like no other sport, and us SANFL and WAFL diehards are obstinate enough to not let our competition be completely raped like the BRL.
Soccer knew it was more of a minority sport and so needed as much growth as possible.
The state "reserve" cricket players are also eligible to play for their clubs.

Perhaps the cricket model could be the answer - a modified 10 game national reserves comp, topped up with State u/18 players if required, and available for SANFL teams outside of this. Less $$'s, AFL teams get to use their players in their systems, whilst looking at undrafted youngsters as well. Just an idea, not saying it is a good or bad one.

[RustyCage]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

Port Magpies supporters obviously are, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of killing the Magpies off last year.

Hardly voted to kill off the Magpies last year

[gadj1976]

I think it’s something that has to happen for both AFL teams to become more competitive in AFL and player development. The way I see it is Power will have Magpies as reserves side that’s a no brainier. Crows will either need to have new side in SANFL taking it to a 10 team comp (no more 2 byes in the first 4 weeks of a season) or will use a current SANFL team as the reserves side.

If they go with a current SANFL side it couldn’t be Centrals or South due to distance from West Lakes so that leaves Glenelg, North, Norwood, Sturt, West and WWT. I’m not going to pick one but all are within 20km and about 30 min from West Lakes.

Some of the issue are going to be what happens when the crows/power take a young player from an SANFL club they would then change to a new AFL/SANFL club and if they don’t get on the main AFL list or they are not up to AFL standard do they keep playing for the AFL/SANFL club or go back to their original SANFL club. Also do the AFL/SANFL clubs have a SANFL salary cap? And is it the same or more than the other SANFL clubs? Does that cap include payment from playing AFL games?

I’m sure there are hundreds of other issues associated with this topic but I think it’s an interesting one.

Lol. What a poorly thought through post. You really think the SANFL clubs are going to decide to compromise themselves and their competition to possibly, maybe help a couple kids be a little better when they go into the AFL? How much is having control over a reserves team really worth? It might not even be any advantage at all, yet you want to rip the heart out of the SANFL and use it purely to help Port lose by a couple less points a game? However strongly the AFL clubs want it, the SANFL still have control of themselves (unless they sold it to Demetriou when I wasn't watching) so solve that issue before worrying about nonsense like salary caps.

Graham, whilst I don't agree with the post, the Northern Bullants have sacrificed everything, including their name to stay affiliated with Carlton and the VFL.

[topsywaldron]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

Port Magpies supporters obviously are, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of killing the Magpies off last year.

Hardly voted to kill off the Magpies last year

You show me an independent board tasked solely with assisting the Maggies and I might stand a chance of believing you.

Until that day even I, as a Norwood supporter, feels for the true Port supporters who've watched their club get cannibalised.

[Booney]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

Port Magpies supporters obviously are, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of killing the Magpies off last year.

Hardly voted to kill off the Magpies last year

You show me an independent board tasked solely with assisting the Maggies and I might stand a chance of believing you.

Until that day even I, as a Norwood supporter, feels for the true Port supporters who've watched their club get cannibalised.

Who would the "true" Port supporters be, in your wisdom?

[CUTTERMAN]

I think the most interesting poser of all of this is that whatever way you look at whichever model, I can't see how there will be a Port Magpies playing for Premiership points or even playing in the SANFL. The question is, as SANFL or Port supporters are we willing for this to occur.

Port Magpies supporters obviously are, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of killing the Magpies off last year.

If ( and I dont see it ever happening ) this ever happened, why would the Magpies not remain just that, the Magpies, and be a Port Adelaides AFL reserves?

Booney, as I pointed out before IF that is the model (2 AFL reserves sides in the SANFL) I think there will be a clause, amongst others, that the two teams cannot play for premiership points. My main question is how are Port supporters going to deal with this. And also as I mentioned before, no matter which model is pushed or chosen I can't see how there will be a PAFC playing for premiership points in the SANFL again. Unless of course things stay as they are.