Port 2014 - Pre-Season/General Discussion

[Booney]

Why was it done "last minute"? The stadium has just popped up...why wait until July to review? if AFL was placing pressure on why not get guarantees from them?

At the end of the day they signed the agreement and have to take responsibility for that.

Seems part of the last minute was the clubs trying to negotiate a better deal, surely you understand that?

They did get an assurance from the AFL, a review that is about to take place.

[Dutchy]

Hope they turn their finances around, time will tell...

[am Bays]

So both (this is not just a Port issue even though I'm posting in the Port thread - don't want to be accused of bias ) clubs want to review the stadium deal - with Caro firing the bullets (hide behind the skirt boys)

Fair enough, seems only fair then, the handing back of the licences deal should be re-negotiated given if both clubs get a better deal the licences are now worth more, certainly more than when teh original SMA deal was signed which was a pre-curser to the deal for the handing back of the licences ???

Surely that is an appropriate outcome, which both AFL clubs would be prepared to countenance/accept....

[tipper]

Why was it done "last minute"? The stadium has just popped up...why wait until July to review? if AFL was placing pressure on why not get guarantees from them?

At the end of the day they signed the agreement and have to take responsibility for that.

Seems part of the last minute was the clubs trying to negotiate a better deal, surely you understand that?

They did get an assurance from the AFL, a review that is about to take place.

its nice they get a review, but am i right in thinking that after the review, there is nothing compelling the sma to give the clubs a better deal? could we in a couple of weeks see the sma come out with a statement along the lines of "now we have undertaken the review we can see exactly how far we are ramming it up the adelaide afl clubs, and its further than we initially thought. excuse me im off to the bank".... if so ill laugh my arse off









i dont think it will play out that way, but considering some of the "your clubs voted for it, they now have to put up with it" comments with regards to the reserves angst i will thoroughly enjoy it if it does

[Booney]

Why was it done "last minute"? The stadium has just popped up...why wait until July to review? if AFL was placing pressure on why not get guarantees from them?

At the end of the day they signed the agreement and have to take responsibility for that.

Seems part of the last minute was the clubs trying to negotiate a better deal, surely you understand that?

They did get an assurance from the AFL, a review that is about to take place.

its nice they get a review, but am i right in thinking that after the review, there is nothing compelling the sma to give the clubs a better deal? could we in a couple of weeks see the sma come out with a statement along the lines of "now we have undertaken the review we can see exactly how far we are ramming it up the adelaide afl clubs, and its further than we initially thought. excuse me im off to the bank".... if so ill laugh my arse off

i dont think it will play out that way, but considering some of the "your clubs voted for it, they now have to put up with it" comments with regards to the reserves angst i will thoroughly enjoy it if it does

It will simply boil down to what the AFL think of the deal, IMO.

If the AFL think the clubs are being shafted then I'd think the deal will be changed.

What one thing has to do with the other, that's for you to establish.

[tipper]

as i said mate, i dont think it will play out that way. I think the deal will be adjusted in the clubs favour, how much will be decided by the review. however i dont think it will be to the extent that the afl clubs want. i suspect that costs are much higher at the new stadium, and that will need to be made up somewhere. or my guess is completely wrong and all parties will be exstatic after the review and adjustment.

and the stadium deal has absolutely nothing to do with the reserves arrangement, ill just enjoy it if things play out as my fantasy scenario predicts. bit of Karma i reakon. but as i said above, i dont think it will happen, and im not expecting it to.

[valleys07]

Fecking hell.

Nothing is more disappointing than watching your side’s season spiral out of control. I wrote top spot off after the showdown, and wrote top 2 off after last weekend. Will port make the top 4? Looking at our form at the moment, as well as our run home, worst case scenario being we could very well be looking at an away elimination final. Completely staggering.

Where do you start with today? I honestly can’t find any positives outside of our captain.

The negatives. There were plenty.

1) Absolutely belted in the key statistics. 50>41 in the centre clearances, 159>126 in contested possessions, 78>70 in tackles, 49>41 in hitouts, 60>50 in I50’s. Is this workrate? Is this fitness (surely not!), is this errors at the selection table? Is it selfishness? Is it our structure? Is it our game plan? Ill throw that to the masses.

2) Out of the key stats- our tackling today stood out for mine as a massive disappointment. Normally an indicator for a loss is a spike in tackles. Our wins this season have seen us average 69 tackles, a loss sees us average 76. Alarmingly our opposition averages 68 tackles when we win and 81 when we lose. Not only has our run and spread been countered, but we are being belted in close. My gripe is when we do tackle of late, its soft. The amount of times Richmond were able to brush us off and generate attacking forays was hard to watch. FFS wrap the arms and grind them into the turf!!!! Whilst on tackling- another disappointing aspect was seeing us mindlessly handballing when tackled to awaiting Richmond players- id rather see us hold the footy in, get done holding the ball but at least giving our defence an opportunity to re-set, rather than putting the poor blokes under the pump by un-characteristic handballs.

3) Our midfield. What the bloody hell is going on with these blokes at the moment? Aside from Boak, and probably Wines today, we were smashed in there- absolutely smashed. Ebert has hardly had a piece of it for the best part of 2 months, the Sydney game his only exception. Hartlett fades in and out of games way too often for my liking, Cornes hasn’t been as prolific as what he was early in the season (both offensively and defensively), and Polec might as well apologise to the port faithful, saying he got the wrong ground today, such was his 1st half impact. What was our major strength between rounds 1-13 is now our Achilles heel. Concerning is an understatement

4) Selections. By crikey we need a few more talls into this line-up. Give this team something Ken. I know people will see this as making excuses, but its reality- we do not have the KPP depth to cover Jacko and Bob. Jonas cannot consistently perform against players 15cm taller than him, Hombsch is battling hard (no secret he dominates as the floating tall), O’Shea is absolutely not a KPD, and Westhoff costs our side invaluable KPF presence by spending so much time across half back. Injuries are killing us, but we need to look at brining in Clurely, Butcher or Shaw in the coming weeks- just to offer a tall target, make our defensive transfer more potent, just to offer us something. Mitchell is not offering us anything at the moment, Sam Gray about the same. In my opinion, as of right now- selections are not working.

My top 5:
Travis Boak- Our Skipper. What a rich vein of form this bloke is in. He has registered 39,22,33,30 and 26 over the past 5 weeks and is just putting this team on his back almost weekly. For the love of god Ebert, Polec, Hartlett, Cornes- Give the guy some support!! AA squad lock for mine. 39 touches (21 contested), 8 clearances (6 centre clearances), 6 tackles, 5 I50’s and a goal. The complete midfielders (and captains) game.

Daylight

Robbie Gray- Battled hard for little support up forward, finishing with 4 goals. Has dropped a little over the past 3 weeks, but I thought he at least offered us some inside contest, and outside run today. 15 touches, 4 marks, 2 I50’s rounds out a solid performance.

Matt White- Did his absolute best to offer us outside run and carry over 4 quarters, and kicked just about the goal of the year in the last. Copped some extra attention from his old team mates and handled it well I thought.14 touches and 3 I50’s with 2 goals.

Ollie Wines- Did his best inside along with Boak today- but we were belted on the outside. 25 touches (11 contested), 6 clearances, 4 tackles, 4 I50’s and a goal. Really needed to capitalise on his hard running with finishing on the scoreboard. A couple of easy misses a blight on his day.

Hamish Hartlett- After the top 4 it’s a blanket over the rest. Hamish got on the end of a couple of good attacking movements and finished with 21 touches (10 contested), 4 tackles, 4 I50’s and a goal. Well down on what we know he can produce though.

To say we need Bob and Jacko back in this side is an understatement. At least something to arrest the slide. We play Melbourne at AO before the bye, then a run home consisting of Collingwood, Sydney, GC, Carlton and Fremantle will really test the nerves of our supporter base. If we lose to the demons, top is toast. Given that we should be in line to get Bob back for the Collingwood clash- a win against the Demons will keep that top 4 candle flickering..

I’ll still hold hope.

[RustyCage]

Think a week off couldn't come quickly enough

[Dutchy]

Has Burgess starting the old fashioned loading style training? If not maybe they are spent and the game plan has exhausted them?

[RustyCage]

Has Burgess starting the old fashioned loading style training? If not maybe they are spent and the game plan has exhausted them?

I really hope the answer to the first question is yes, but I'm not so sure.

I wouldn't say the game plan is exhausting us as much as some good wins have made certain players think they are better than they really are.

[JK]

It's obviously only a stab in the dark because I don't know the blokes personally, but I reckon Ports have two problems at present:

1. The haven't coped with the structural changes forced through missing personnel
2. They look mentally tired

Both of which I reckon can be rectified. Will be a major player in the finals.

[LaughingKookaburra]

Forget the top 4, you're a serious chance of missing the 8 if you drop a game to either Melbourne or Carlton.

[Vulcan]

Has port actually beaten any quality away from home this year?

[carey]

Has port actually beaten any quality away from home this year?

You idiot.

It's our 2nd away loss the first was to Sydney by 4 points. Obviously you know a bit about the game.

[carey]

Fecking hell.

Nothing is more disappointing than watching your side’s season spiral out of control. I wrote top spot off after the showdown, and wrote top 2 off after last weekend. Will port make the top 4? Looking at our form at the moment, as well as our run home, worst case scenario being we could very well be looking at an away elimination final. Completely staggering.

Where do you start with today? I honestly can’t find any positives outside of our captain.

The negatives. There were plenty.

1) Absolutely belted in the key statistics. 50>41 in the centre clearances, 159>126 in contested possessions, 78>70 in tackles, 49>41 in hitouts, 60>50 in I50’s. Is this workrate? Is this fitness (surely not!), is this errors at the selection table? Is it selfishness? Is it our structure? Is it our game plan? Ill throw that to the masses.

2) Out of the key stats- our tackling today stood out for mine as a massive disappointment. Normally an indicator for a loss is a spike in tackles. Our wins this season have seen us average 69 tackles, a loss sees us average 76. Alarmingly our opposition averages 68 tackles when we win and 81 when we lose. Not only has our run and spread been countered, but we are being belted in close. My gripe is when we do tackle of late, its soft. The amount of times Richmond were able to brush us off and generate attacking forays was hard to watch. FFS wrap the arms and grind them into the turf!!!! Whilst on tackling- another disappointing aspect was seeing us mindlessly handballing when tackled to awaiting Richmond players- id rather see us hold the footy in, get done holding the ball but at least giving our defence an opportunity to re-set, rather than putting the poor blokes under the pump by un-characteristic handballs.

3) Our midfield. What the bloody hell is going on with these blokes at the moment? Aside from Boak, and probably Wines today, we were smashed in there- absolutely smashed. Ebert has hardly had a piece of it for the best part of 2 months, the Sydney game his only exception. Hartlett fades in and out of games way too often for my liking, Cornes hasn’t been as prolific as what he was early in the season (both offensively and defensively), and Polec might as well apologise to the port faithful, saying he got the wrong ground today, such was his 1st half impact. What was our major strength between rounds 1-13 is now our Achilles heel. Concerning is an understatement

4) Selections. By crikey we need a few more talls into this line-up. Give this team something Ken. I know people will see this as making excuses, but its reality- we do not have the KPP depth to cover Jacko and Bob. Jonas cannot consistently perform against players 15cm taller than him, Hombsch is battling hard (no secret he dominates as the floating tall), O’Shea is absolutely not a KPD, and Westhoff costs our side invaluable KPF presence by spending so much time across half back. Injuries are killing us, but we need to look at brining in Clurely, Butcher or Shaw in the coming weeks- just to offer a tall target, make our defensive transfer more potent, just to offer us something. Mitchell is not offering us anything at the moment, Sam Gray about the same. In my opinion, as of right now- selections are not working.

My top 5:
Travis Boak- Our Skipper. What a rich vein of form this bloke is in. He has registered 39,22,33,30 and 26 over the past 5 weeks and is just putting this team on his back almost weekly. For the love of god Ebert, Polec, Hartlett, Cornes- Give the guy some support!! AA squad lock for mine. 39 touches (21 contested), 8 clearances (6 centre clearances), 6 tackles, 5 I50’s and a goal. The complete midfielders (and captains) game.

Daylight

Robbie Gray- Battled hard for little support up forward, finishing with 4 goals. Has dropped a little over the past 3 weeks, but I thought he at least offered us some inside contest, and outside run today. 15 touches, 4 marks, 2 I50’s rounds out a solid performance.

Matt White- Did his absolute best to offer us outside run and carry over 4 quarters, and kicked just about the goal of the year in the last. Copped some extra attention from his old team mates and handled it well I thought.14 touches and 3 I50’s with 2 goals.

Ollie Wines- Did his best inside along with Boak today- but we were belted on the outside. 25 touches (11 contested), 6 clearances, 4 tackles, 4 I50’s and a goal. Really needed to capitalise on his hard running with finishing on the scoreboard. A couple of easy misses a blight on his day.

Hamish Hartlett- After the top 4 it’s a blanket over the rest. Hamish got on the end of a couple of good attacking movements and finished with 21 touches (10 contested), 4 tackles, 4 I50’s and a goal. Well down on what we know he can produce though.

To say we need Bob and Jacko back in this side is an understatement. At least something to arrest the slide. We play Melbourne at AO before the bye, then a run home consisting of Collingwood, Sydney, GC, Carlton and Fremantle will really test the nerves of our supporter base. If we lose to the demons, top is toast. Given that we should be in line to get Bob back for the Collingwood clash- a win against the Demons will keep that top 4 candle flickering..

I’ll still hold hope.

Very good summary mate we were terrible today. I actually didn't think Trengrove and Booby would be that big of a loss, Well at least I thought we could cover them for the mean time but wow how wrong was I!

I've been saying it for weeks now we must get some games in to Mason Shaw I rate this kid highly and IMO he is in front of Butcher.

Pittard does my head in every week and now O'Shea is back to join him.

[Brodlach]

Has port actually beaten any quality away from home this year?

Three away wins have been GWS, Melbourne and West Coast

Thoughts Carey?

[Zorro]

Has port actually beaten any quality away from home this year?

You idiot.

It's our 2nd away loss the first was to Sydney by 4 points. Obviously you know a bit about the game.

Plus the North Melbourne loss.

[Booney]

I'm not going to get all down trodden on the back of three weeks of footy after the 12-13 week period prior to that, no chance.

I am however going to get upset at the side for showing no will at the contest to turn things around after half time. Early in the second the lose Richmond players around the outside of the contest were killing us. As such, I'd imagine Ken Hinkley would have lost his **** at half time, I know I was!

To then come out and not change one of the things you can control, manning up at stoppages, was simply unacceptable.

The back half bled and bled badly, they will while we miss our key pillars in Trengove and Carlile. With Redden and Renouf lost to season ending injuries we have no 195cm+ back ups to play forward or in the rucks to help Lobbe and release Westhoff back. While Westhoff was back yesterday, we held sway, as soon as he went forward, we bled.

That's where our squad is at though. The likes of Hawthorn can cover the loss of Gibson and Lake by having their midfield hold the opposition in Hawthorns forward half, as they did Friday night. Port let Richmond out far too easily yesterday.

The likes of Fremantle can do the same and Sydney rely on the star studded forward half and midfield. So, your defence is only as good as your midfield is at helping them and our midfield is doing the back half no favours.

Butcher continues to disappoint, Mitch Harvey and Mason Shaw might just get a gig this week to allow Hinkley the luxury of keeping two talls in the F50 while Westhoff floats back. But Ken has made it clear, you demand through SANFL form to be picked and you'll be picked. Sam Gray and Ben Newton testament to that, you simply won't come in to make up a spot for making up a spots sake. So then this comes down to how head strong and set in his ways Hinkley and the coaching staff are. Structure Vs Form. Will be an interesting week at selection.

One thing for sure is the midfield need to pull their finger out and help the skipper and Ollie Wines. These two have carried the midfield for a few weeks now and the in and out form of Polec, Harlett, Broadbent ( better yesterday ), Wingard, White and to a lesser extent Robbie Gray needs to stop. If they continue to allow the opposition 60 F50 entries as they did yesterday then our best defensive structure will suffer, let alone our currently undermanned one.

So the blokes in the midfield who are struggling need to turn in around in both aspects of the midfield mix, the defensive and attacking side of their games.

By attacking, I don't just mean running forward of the contest, that only works when we get first hands on the ball. I mean attacking the contest like Travis Boak does with an intent to win the ball and desire to beat his opponent one-on-one.

Big week ahead against Melbourne who nearly unravelled us in Alice Springs. Which in all honest is about the time we started to look unsettled by losing Monfries, White, Boak and Polec to rolled ankles in the following weeks then Trengove to a long term ankle and Carlile and Monfries with hamstrings.

Top 2 is out of reach now I think, top 4 is still an out side chance but so is missing the 8 altogether if we don't roll the Dees this week.

The week off before Collingwood away and Sydney at home. Melbourne is a must win, Collingwood ( we should have Carlile back ) is winnable in the form they are in and Sydney, well, its Sydney.

With Gold Coast away, Carlton here and Fremantle away I cant write down any of these games as certain wins in our current form.

If we can beat Melbourne, Carlton and one of Gold Coast / Collingwood we will end up on 15 wins and 5th/6th.

[RustyCage]

Very well said Boon

[valleys07]

A great post Boon.

I was pretty negative in my post yesterday but I was seething after the game.

Richmond had not nudged a top 12 side all year and to come out and outplay us in that manner was hugely disappointing.

Ken has to make 2 changes this week in my opinion.

A 2nd tall has to come into our forward line to allow Westhoff back. Make no mistake this is an absolute must.

Mitchell / Gray need to go back to the magpies. Mitchell has offered us nothing for weeks now, and whilst I like Sam Gray- there is a lot for him to work on to be damaging at AFL level. Monfries in for Gray, and one of Newton, Moore or Cassisi in for Mitchell.

Bu the critical point is our midfields workrate- you summed it perfectly, apply the workrate of your skipper. He was outstanding yesterday and will feature in the 3,2,1 for that game, despite us being thoroughly outplayed.