Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Ron Burgundy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:37 am

Yeah, get rid of the toss. Maybe have the captains have a rock off, best of 5.
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby mal » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:20 am

Anyone who thinks the toss makes no difference is dilusional

Think about it
Why do about 90% of captains win the toss and bat in Test Cricket

Anyways my point is ,and still is, and always is
You play up to 5 days of Test cricket
It's considered as hard yakka , that's why its called Test cricket
To win a toss, and get gifted an advantage over your opposition , is too much of an advantage, for absolutely NO skill

All sporting contests should start off equal for all competitors
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:35 am

You'll be looking for neutral Test matches soon because the home ground advantage is too much of an advantage.
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Ron Burgundy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:35 am

Since 1980

1980's - 59.02% of captains won the toss and batted
1990's - 65.71%
2000's - 65.95%
2010's - 65.82%

Of teams that won the toss and batted in this time, there has been 260 wins - 279 losses.

Is it really that much of an advantage? It is one of the beauties of test match cricket.
Move on...
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby woodublieve12 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:36 am

i honestly can't believe we are still talking about this... you toss a coin, you win or lose. SIMPLE. Bad luck if you dont! to have take it in turns scenario is kids stuff!
England aren't losing this series because they called tails and heads came up. they are being smashed in all facets!
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Footy Smart » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:37 am

So you then rock up after 3 days rain and its your turn to bat first so you get rolled for jack and the side batting second gets the better condistions..... pallease :roll:

Funny you blokes bitch and winge about changing the game re DRS and changing rules for chuckas etc etc then they want to change tossing the coin... been tossing something else to hard I reckon.
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Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby bennymacca » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:40 am

Did a bit of googling, and interestingly it seems that there is NO statistically significant advantage to winning the toss, in fact the team that loses the toss has won more often over the sample period but is within the bounds of error.

So I think I'll change my opinion from above

Note the old data, might try and work it out for newer stuff.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/shane_booth/ ... /toss.html
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby woodublieve12 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:40 am

Can we bring in the rules, one hand one bounce, six and out and you can't be out first ball...
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby bennymacca » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:43 am

This article says that in one day day-nighters there is a statistically significant advantage to batting first, but doesn't list sources of the data

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpvbh/toss.doc
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Ron Burgundy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:48 am

Of course it is Mal. The advantage is the winning team get to choose what they want to do.

But why change it...

Have you been drinking too much FREE BEER?
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Jim05 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:56 am

bennymacca wrote:Did a bit of googling, and interestingly it seems that there is NO statistically significant advantage to winning the toss, in fact the team that loses the toss has won more often over the sample period but is within the bounds of error.

So I think I'll change my opinion from above

Note the old data, might try and work it out for newer stuff.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/shane_booth/ ... /toss.html

Mentioned on the ABC during the Adelaide test that in 2013 England hasnt lost a test in which it had won the toss but hadnt won a test when they lost the toss
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby mal » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:04 pm

2013 results AU V EG

ENGLAND 2013
1 EG win toss bat 1st and win
2 EG win toss bat 1st and win
3 AU win toss bat 1st and draw
4 EG win toss bat 1st and win
5 AU win toss bat 1st and draw

AUSTRALIA
1 AU win toss bat 1st and win
2 AU win toss bat 1st and win
3 AU win toss bat 1st [AU look winners[

RESULTED MATCHES ASHES 2013
7 tosses between AU V EG
7 times the winners of the toss batted 1st
The side that lost the toss and fielded have won ZERO games

Quite simply Alistar Cook Michael Clark and Mal think that winning a toss and batting is an advantage
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby mal » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:06 pm

Jim05 wrote:
bennymacca wrote:Did a bit of googling, and interestingly it seems that there is NO statistically significant advantage to winning the toss, in fact the team that loses the toss has won more often over the sample period but is within the bounds of error.

So I think I'll change my opinion from above

Note the old data, might try and work it out for newer stuff.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/shane_booth/ ... /toss.html

Mentioned on the ABC during the Adelaide test that in 2013 England hasnt lost a test in which it had won the toss but hadnt won a test when they lost the toss


SURPRISE SURPRISE
Would you believe that !!!!
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby mal » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:07 pm

woodublieve12 wrote:Can we bring in the rules, one hand one bounce, six and out and you can't be out first ball...


ANSWER this question
Is it an advantage to win the toss and bat in Test Cricket ?
YES
or
NO
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby Brodlach » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:09 pm

When does Michael Clarke declare?

I think midway through the second session today
July 11th 2012....
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby whufc » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:12 pm

Brodlach wrote:When does Michael Clarke declare?

I think midway through the second session today


Agree!!

While England are no Saffies and this pitch is different he wouldn't have forgotten the 4/4000000 run chase Saffies won

Is it correct that Lyon, Johnson and Siddle all bowled in that game as well?

500 will be Clarkes lead imho
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:14 pm

At lunch I reckon, get at least another 100/120 runs in the morning session
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby woodublieve12 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:15 pm

mal wrote:
woodublieve12 wrote:Can we bring in the rules, one hand one bounce, six and out and you can't be out first ball...


ANSWER this question
Is it an advantage to win the toss and bat in Test Cricket ?
YES
or
NO

Not always....
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby bennymacca » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:19 pm

mal wrote:
woodublieve12 wrote:Can we bring in the rules, one hand one bounce, six and out and you can't be out first ball...


ANSWER this question
Is it an advantage to win the toss and bat in Test Cricket ?
YES
or
NO


Did you just completely ignore the actual facts that I posted?
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Re: Ashes 3rd Test Perth Discussion

Postby reppoh_eht » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:20 pm

Using CricInfo's StatsGuru you can go over the Stats for all Test Matches (ever) including if the team won or lost the toss...

Australia has won 49.74% of matches when they win the toss and only 43.32% when they lose the toss...

England 36.56% when winning the toss and 34.76% when they lose...

Pakistan have won 29.55% when winning the toss and 32.34% when they lose...

Hardly a compelling argument to change a rule that has been around since day 1, and Mal using the last two series of Australia vs England is far too small of a sample to say that we need to change a rule based on those results!

Should Australian Rules Football also stop using the toss of the coin? Surely the team that wins the toss would kick with the wind and get an advantage...

Either way, stats say the best team wins more often than not.
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