The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[Dutchy]

3 crowds under 2k on the weekend, not good....many regulars have dropped off and those with a casual interest int he comp aren't going to turn up when it gets cold/wet.

[tipper]

i also find it laughable that the apologists for the inclusion of the reserves sides started out with

"see, crowds are up, the reserves sides arent bad for the league" in the first couple of weeks when interest was high, and have moved to

"see, crowds havent dropped off, the reserves sides arent a bad thing for the league" when the gloss had worn off and crowds were actually down but the high turnout in the first few weeks (combined with the clare game) was keeping the average up.

wonder what it will be when crowds are down for long enough to counteract the novelty factor at the start of the year and this years average attendance ends up below last years?

[woodublieve12]

Since majority of teams in the sanfl are originals, then majority of the blame must go to those clubs for the poor numbers, not the reserve teams...

[tipper]

lol, so the entry of the reserves teams, and the complete change to the fabric of the competition has no bearing on driving people away? its the very reason i have stopped going, and i know others in the same boat. up to two games a weekend are now a training run, why would i pay to go watch that? i never watched Norths reserves in the past, why would i watch a reserves league now?

i guess though that using your logic, the early season increase in attendances had nothing to do with the reserves sides then either? better let bennymacca and others know then

[RB]

lol, so the entry of the reserves teams, and the complete change to the fabric of the competition has no bearing on driving people away? its the very reason i have stopped going, and i know others in the same boat. up to two games a weekend are now a training run, why would i pay to go watch that? i never watched Norths reserves in the past, why would i watch a reserves league now?

The exact same applies to me, only substitute North for WWT. I have lost interest largely due to not being interested in reserves.

N.B. My cat and dog remain paid up WWT members.

[PhilH]

Again (where is that recording), the Eagles DO NOT have Pet Memberships. NEVER HAVE, doubt we ever will.

[tipper]

he didnt say they had pet membershps, he said they were members. nothing sopping someone signing their beagle up at the full adult rate is there?

[Wedgie]

My suspicions proven

[RB]

Again (where is that recording), the Eagles DO NOT have Pet Memberships. NEVER HAVE, doubt we ever will.

Tell that to Rover and Mr. Cuddles. :grin:

[stan]

Most SANFL supporters between 1990 and 2013 had become accustomed to having AFL players allocated to their local SANFL teams and therefore were playing under the same rules and conditions.

I have given this AFL RESERVES debacle some thought.

I do not know if this concept has been thought of before but my idea is.

As the Magpies were killed off last year we now have Eight traditional SANFL clubs remaining.

I propose the the Power align themselves with FOUR SANFL clubs eg Central District North Adelaide Woodville West Torrens and South Adelaide.

The Crows align themselves with Four SANFL clubs as well Norwood Glenelg Sturt and West Adelaide.

Thus no more BYES as well.

Each AFL club will then allocate FIVE AFL players to each of the four SANFL clubs to which it is aligned to 4 x 5 = 20 players.

Those AFL players who cannot make the SANFL league team will also be able to play in the SANFL reserves.

With this set up the competition once again becomes a level playing field with every team once again under the same rules.

The only drawback is that their will no longer be a Magpie team but we must remember they were killed off last year.

Fellow posters what are your thoughts would this work ???????

No

Hey JTC don't get me wrong i am totally with you my first preference is that these two AFL interloping parasites FAAAAAARKKKK OFF out of our competition.

However should there be any involvement i would prefer the lesser of two evils and that is having FIVE AFL listed players allocated to each of the EIGHT sovereign SANFL teams.

Yes you are right the inteerst in this site has waned because of their intrusion.

Actually the old system was fine in my opinion. 9 teams and a bye, big deal. But shit happens and in this case did. Not sure where we go to from here. But in the end regardless of what we would like to see happen the $ANFL will suit themselves.

[Booney]

Most SANFL supporters between 1990 and 2013 had become accustomed to having AFL players allocated to their local SANFL teams and therefore were playing under the same rules and conditions.
I have given this AFL RESERVES debacle some thought.
I do not know if this concept has been thought of before but my idea is.
As the Magpies were killed off last year we now have Eight traditional SANFL clubs remaining.
I propose the the Power align themselves with FOUR SANFL clubs eg Central District North Adelaide Woodville West Torrens and South Adelaide.
The Crows align themselves with Four SANFL clubs as well Norwood Glenelg Sturt and West Adelaide.
Thus no more BYES as well.
Each AFL club will then allocate FIVE AFL players to each of the four SANFL clubs to which it is aligned to 4 x 5 = 20 players.
Those AFL players who cannot make the SANFL league team will also be able to play in the SANFL reserves.
With this set up the competition once again becomes a level playing field with every team once again under the same rules.
The only drawback is that their will no longer be a Magpie team but we must remember they were killed off last year.
Fellow posters what are your thoughts would this work ???????

No

Hey JTC don't get me wrong i am totally with you my first preference is that these two AFL interloping parasites FAAAAAARKKKK OFF out of our competition.
However should there be any involvement i would prefer the lesser of two evils and that is having FIVE AFL listed players allocated to each of the EIGHT sovereign SANFL teams.

Yes you are right the inteerst in this site has waned because of their intrusion.

It might just be because of the manner in which it was discussed on here.

As for JTC's idea, it's good you've been thinking John, but I think you've got some more thinking to do yet.

[whufc]

Most SANFL supporters between 1990 and 2013 had become accustomed to having AFL players allocated to their local SANFL teams and therefore were playing under the same rules and conditions.
I have given this AFL RESERVES debacle some thought.
I do not know if this concept has been thought of before but my idea is.
As the Magpies were killed off last year we now have Eight traditional SANFL clubs remaining.
I propose the the Power align themselves with FOUR SANFL clubs eg Central District North Adelaide Woodville West Torrens and South Adelaide.
The Crows align themselves with Four SANFL clubs as well Norwood Glenelg Sturt and West Adelaide.
Thus no more BYES as well.
Each AFL club will then allocate FIVE AFL players to each of the four SANFL clubs to which it is aligned to 4 x 5 = 20 players.
Those AFL players who cannot make the SANFL league team will also be able to play in the SANFL reserves.
With this set up the competition once again becomes a level playing field with every team once again under the same rules.
The only drawback is that their will no longer be a Magpie team but we must remember they were killed off last year.
Fellow posters what are your thoughts would this work ???????

No

Hey JTC don't get me wrong i am totally with you my first preference is that these two AFL interloping parasites FAAAAAARKKKK OFF out of our competition.
However should there be any involvement i would prefer the lesser of two evils and that is having FIVE AFL listed players allocated to each of the EIGHT sovereign SANFL teams.

Yes you are right the inteerst in this site has waned because of their intrusion.

It might just be because of the manner in which it was discussed on here.

As for JTC's idea, it's good you've been thinking John, but I think you've got some more thinking to do yet.

I think you will regular posters who would actually post about the game in the post match threads like myself, topsy, OTR, sjt and many others have very little interest in posting on a regular basis about games in a mickey mouse competition

[wild dog]

As for the constant Magpies no longer exist rubbish I see running through this laughable thread, you people remind me of climate change deniers. The truth stares you in the face, but you all still scream it's not real it's not real! Magpies in the SANFL, Power in the AFL, it's actually not real hard!

@Wild Dog, nothing wrong with the analogy. The problem is that some people will deny reality because it doesn't suit them, even if it stares them in the face. That applies to both subjects I mentioned.

Yes you demonstrate the issue perfectly - climate change deniers use the easy facts and say "see its freezing cold today, we had plenty of rain last year, the Antartic sea ice is actually increasing, average temps since 98 have actually decreased" etc. etc to deny a hypothesis. Climate change is a theory backed up by sophisticated computer modelling, utilising sound quantitative sourcing that is placed out there for peer review. It requires the theory and modelling to be rebutted, not pick out the odd observation and hold that up as proof.

In terms of Port, the hypothesis or the point being made is that the team is made up of professional full time AFL listed players from all over the place, with the emphasis being on nurturing and development for the AFL team to win the premiership. While the reserves team does not go out to lose, it is a bonus if they win because THE EMPHASIS IS ON THE AFL TEAM WINNING A PREMIERSHIP. The team that is running about out there is not the Port Adelaide we love to hate, its a reserves team. So how do you reply matt35, you say "hey there is a team running out there in black and white prison bars on Alberton Oval so that means the Port Adelaide Magpies exist." Others write "Hey the team is winning, you said they don't care about winning that means the Port Adelaide Magpies exist." Those observations do not rebut the point being made.

[Apachebulldog]

by johntheclaret » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:20 pm

Booney wrote:
johntheclaret wrote:
matt35 wrote:
No, there was a Port Adelaide Football club playing as the Magpies, just as there is in 2014. *yawns*

Let's try again *sigh*
The Port Adelaide Football Club running around the AFL is known as the Port Adelaide Power.
The Port Adelaide, formerly known as the Port Adelaide Magpies, that was running around in the SANFL until last year no longer exists.
The team currently running around in the SANFL is the Port Adelaide Power Reserves.
They are the Port Adelaide Power Reserves because the majority of their players are listed with the AFL club the Port Adelaide Power.
These players are not quite good enough or are in the process of rehabilitation and therefore must play for the Port Adelaide Power 2nd string. Also known as a Reserve side, which is a common term known throughout many sports.
Except of course to a few deluded people that stubbornly refuse to accept that their beloved Port Adelaide Magpies no longer exists.

Port Adelaide Power can try to badge their reserve team however they like but the fact of the matter is that the independent SANFL club known as the Port Adelaide Magpies no longer exists.

The sooner you guys can accept that fact the sooner we can all move on and focus our despise on the Port Adelaide Power Reserves. And remember, it isn't our fault that the AFL club Port Adelaide Power decided they didn't want to retain an independent SANFL side and opted to get rid of the Port Adelaide Magpies in favour of their own Port Adelaide Power Reserve side.

If anything, if I was a Port Adelaide Magpies fan, I'd be as pissed off as all the other SANFL fans at what has happened by allowing Reserve teams into our league.

Alternatively you can always deny, deny, deny


I'd say the sooner YOU LOT MOVE ON will be a more pivotal moment.

The irony is you try to make matt35 look like some sort of idiot with your explanation.


I think that you will find "us lot" have already moved on from the "PAM does not exist anymore" debate, which isn't really a debate at all, and it is the usual few Port supporters who don't seem able to move on.

The reality is the old PAM is no more. Getting the Power Reserve team to run around in the famous Prison Bar Guernsey and call them the Magpies is purely an attempt by PP to retain the PAM supporter base.

This clearly hasn't happened judging by the fall in crowds this year as many PAM supporters, who are not necessarily also PP supporters, stay away.
Port Adelaide were the greatest football club in SANFL history. They won more premiership, broke more records and had more fans (probably because they won more flags, every one likes a winner ), than any other club. I'd actually go as far as saying it is the ultimate insult to all genuine PAM supporters and the SANFL itself, for PP to use the once great name and colours of PAM in the way they are doing. Many SANFL PAM supporters obviously feel the same.

Now if you're referring to the "No AFL Reserves in the SANFL" debate, then I don't think you or anyone else has the right to say "move on".
Most SANFL supporters don't want AFL Reserves playing in the SANFL. You can roll out that old "you voted for it" line but you know very well most clubs voted yes despite the protestations from their fans.

If you are a PAFC fan then maybe what is happening to the SANFL isn't of much relevance, and therefore you can't understand what all the fuss is about. I suspect 90% of Port Power fans have no interest in the SANFL and never have had, especially those under 25, it doesn't make it any less relevant to the genuine SANFL supporters.

As for trying to make Matt look like an idiot. From his post *yawn* , it was clear he hadn't grasped the reality and when people seem to struggle grasping something then it seems logical to break it down and explain it in the simplest way. It usually works for most.
johntheclaret



Hey JTC i have carried this over to this thread where it is supposed to be.

My friend everything you have stated is true and correct i think that most posters on this site who are passionate SANFL supporters TOTALLY and whole heartedly agree with your simple explanation that any simpleton can and would comprehend.

Its only a small core of delusional demented fools who still cannot fathom the difference between a AFL RESERVES team and a SANFL team either they are DUMB STUPID or IGNORANT and do not understand simple LOGIC.

Maybe still to this day these supporters have not come to terms and accept that the real SANFL Magpies played their last game at Glenelg Oval last year thats right 2013 and are DEFUNCT !!!

SANFL Magpies 1870 - 2013 R I P .

[matt35]

Ah it gets funnier with every post! Putting up straw men does not make an argument any more credible! I do get that some on here are extremely passionate about this topic but a bad argument is still a bad argument! So I'll break it down, again, it's not hard!

Port Adelaide Football club, established 1870.
Port Adelaide Football club granted a licence to enter the AFL in 1995.
Now, this is the point where people seem to get confused.
Port Adelaide Football club unable to play as the Magpies in the AFL, not because they suddenly became a new Football club, but because the competition they were now entering already had an existing team known as the Magpies. Thus, the Port Adelaide Football club, participating in the AFL, were known as the Power. I repeat, there was no new club, rather one club split in to two entities to compete in two separate competitions. They became one entity again not in 2014, but in 2010!

The fact that the club is now allowed to play their AFL listed players in the SANFL, does not make them any less the Magpies in the SANFL, as much as some on here, desperate to make any argument to bulster their case against the current set up, may wish that to be so.

On the wider issue, I suspect that in a couple of years time, when the sky has not fallen in and the competition is still healthy, as often happens with change, people will wonder what all the fuss and nonsense was about.

[Wedgie]

Port Adelaide Football club unable to play as the Magpies in the AFL, not because they suddenly became a new Football club, but because the competition they were now entering already had an existing team known as the Magpies.

Incorrect mate, I used to think that but had to admit I was wrong when pointed out to the facts and evidence.
Port Adelaide Football Club changed their name to the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club.
Same club, same entity, same business, new name.
It was the only way the entirely new franchise in the AFL could use the same name.
Hence contracts with players that the Magpies had in 95 were not needed to change for 96, same club.
Players that went from the Magpies to the Power 95 to 96 needed new contracts as they were playing for an entirely new club even though it stole the name of the club that was still in the SANFL.
The Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club which is the original PAFC no longer exists.
Dead buried.
The club now in the AFL with their reserves in the SANFL are the new entity in 96 that took over the name from its previous owner.
FACTS, supported by legal documents.
Club that was around for over 100 years and won 30 something premierships is dead and buried, no longer, kaput.
The club playing AFL and SANFL has been around since 1996. If I name my next son Gary Ablett Jnr it doesn't mean he's a Brownlow medalist.

[Apachebulldog]

Matty matty matty you might have convinced yourself but as Wedgie has stated and countless other posters have stated the Magpies are

Nada
Dead
Kaput
Defunct
Moribund
Deceased


The PAFC has the followig

The Power which competes in the AFL
The Power RESERVES which competes in the BASTARDISED SANFL !!

Very simple to understand.

[Pseudo]

Matty matty matty you might have convinced yourself but as Wedgie has stated and countless other posters have stated the Magpies are

Nada
Dead
Kaput
Defunct
Moribund
Deceased

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This magpie is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-MAGPIE!!

[matt35]

Of course players required new contracts, they were playing in an entirely different competition under entirely different playing conditions. Oh, and a side note, while the licence was granted to the Port Adelaide Football club in 1995, the Port Adelaide Football club did not enter a team in to the AFL competition in 1996, rather 1997. One club, two entities. Not hard!

Oh, and while on the subject of "legal documents", I very much look forward to someone finding me one which refers to the "Port Power reserves". Just a hint, you will not find one, yet I am the one accused of denying reality! "Port Power reserves" is nothing more than an SAFooty fiction invented by people who do not like the new set up.

[RB]

The fact that the club is now allowed to play their AFL listed players in the SANFL, does not make them any less the Magpies in the SANFL,

To the extent that the club of Williams, Motley, Ebert, Quinn etc. is capable of becoming a reserves team and somehow retain its essence, sure. Yes, there is a team running out in the Sanfl wearing black and white and calling itself the Magpies. But surely a club's substantial, rather than superficial character is what makes a club?

I'm not in any position to tell Port/Power/magpies fans why they should or shouldn't support which team. However, objectively, this is the story:

A big change happened in 2014. While numerous changes have occurred to the club over 140+ years, the common thread from 1870-2013 was that the Magpies were a sovereign club, playing to win the flag, and not subservient to an AFL's teams developmental and tactical experiments. This year, that changed.

This year, the team exists to give the Power's young/unfit/crap players a run, and to try various things, teach Irishmen how to play, etc. From 1870-2013, it was 100% focused on winning the Sanfl premiership. Now it's about winning the AFL flag; the Sanfl is secondary where an inconsistancy arises. I.e. a reserves team.
Winning flags (in the comp it played in) was always the one and only goal of the Magpies I knew.

Surely, after changing to such an essential degree, this team can't claim to be the Magpies anymore. As Wedgie said, you can call your son Gary Ablett Jnr. Doesn't mean you're Gary Ablett. (Thanks to Wedgie for the analogy!