The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[Bounce of the ball]

Andrew attends SANFL games and his club believes they will stay for 100,000 reasons.

[therisingblues]

Thought I'd keep this thread going by posting the following. The number of AFL listed players for the Adelaide reserves team by match; the opposition; and the margin of the match. To add colour, yellow is a win, grey is a loss, and the fawny colour is a draw

Update on this post:

Thanks
Thanks Spelly, I was wondering how many Crows played that last game.
It makes the previous week's effort by the Eagles stand out for the sheer achievement factor. From a Sturt perspective I reckon you just made them angry. They honestly just swept us aside, and apart from one quarter we played possibly the worst footy I've ever seen us play. We crumbled under the pressure, some of the decision making was hideous and the crows made us pay almost every time. One goal by Podsiadly was brilliant, he just got behind the press at the corner of the centre square, and found himself alone with a squad of Sturt players racing back to the 50 meter arc. With no one forward to pass it to, he ran toward the pocket evading a couple of Blues bearing down on him and it looked as though he'd have to turn it over. What he did instead was keep a step ahead of his pursuers, running full tilt and just crossing over the 50 meter arc, near the boundary line launches a perfect drop punt that sails straight through the goals about half post height. It was just an awesome display of power,control and will. It's been many years since I've seen such brilliance at SANFL level. Many of the folk around me just shook their heads. It was the difference in the two sides distilled into a few seconds. We just couldn't lay a hand on them.

[tipper]

Good article...
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger ... e81937edb7

bloody hell that is spot on. anyone know the bloke that wrote it? i want to buy him a beer

[cennals05]

Good article...
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger ... e81937edb7

bloody hell that is spot on. anyone know the bloke that wrote it? i want to buy him a beer

Andrew Faulkner. I follow him on Twitter, he often comments about getting the reserves out of the SANFL.

[Magellan]

Perhaps some are staying away because they are indifferent to the competition but times change and rivalries change, move on. The challenge for the SANFL and the clubs is to put on a product which entices the fans out to the local game. I witnessed an excellent game 2 weeks ago between the Eagles & the Crows. If there were more of that standard you would have supporters flocking back to the grounds.

This is a comment from 'Walter' published at the end of Faulkner's article, and it touches on the perception that non-SANFL people (and based on its context, I'll assume Walter is a Crows supporter) have for the competition.

The most offensive and patronising thing is the 'move on' sentiment. Stop sooking about your league, times change, so harden up and get with the program, right? A lot of people have 'moved on' following the introduction of the Crows and Port in the last 25 years. They have accepted its place as a second tier competition. Moreover, they have spent (and continue to spend) a lot of time, money, and passion investing in their clubs, and to have a Johnny-come-lately tell you that you should disregard what it means to you is, well, flat-out offensive. When the boot is on the other foot and Crows are on the receiving end of unfavorable administrative decisions from above, then let's see who has the courage to 'move on'.

I find it amusing and annoying that those who spend the least amount of time participating in the SANFL seem to be the most opinionated voices in terms of how it should be managed and administered.

[cennals05]

I posted this on Twitter a couple of weeks ago to the SANFL clubs and the SANFL...

[stan]

Good article...
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger ... e81937edb7

bloody hell that is spot on. anyone know the bloke that wrote it? i want to buy him a beer

Andrew Faulkner. I follow him on Twitter, he often comments about getting the reserves out of the SANFL.

He often writes some striking articles. I dont mund reading his work because its like he actually listens to people. An almost forbidden practice.

[wild dog]

Perhaps some are staying away because they are indifferent to the competition but times change and rivalries change, move on. The challenge for the SANFL and the clubs is to put on a product which entices the fans out to the local game. I witnessed an excellent game 2 weeks ago between the Eagles & the Crows. If there were more of that standard you would have supporters flocking back to the grounds.

This is a comment from 'Walter' published at the end of Faulkner's article, and it touches on the perception that non-SANFL people (and based on its context, I'll assume Walter is a Crows supporter) have for the competition.

The most offensive and patronising thing is the 'move on' sentiment. Stop sooking about your league, times change, so harden up and get with the program, right? A lot of people have 'moved on' following the introduction of the Crows and Port in the last 25 years. They have accepted its place as a second tier competition. Moreover, they have spent (and continue to spend) a lot of time, money, and passion investing in their clubs, and to have a Johnny-come-lately tell you that you should disregard what it means to you is, well, flat-out offensive. When the boot is on the other foot and Crows are on the receiving end of unfavorable administrative decisions from above, then let's see who has the courage to 'move on'.

I find it amusing and annoying that those who spend the least amount of time participating in the SANFL seem to be the most opinionated voices in terms of how it should be managed and administered.

Hear Hear, My sentiments exactly. Moving on is the easiest thing to do. Its easy to follow a local AFL team. So much media exposure, participating remotely, watch the game in HD with mates and family, taxpayers to fund brand new facilities and transportation, kids easily entertained and forget about it after the game.

The worst thing about the current state of the SANFL is I care. I care about the club, about the people within the club, their jobs and the impact of the last couple of seasons. Its easy to just follow the AFL and totally depersonalise the thing, become a Walter and boo and cheer from my brand new Adelaide Oval seat or in front of my HD TV. I sponsor my club, try to attend all the events, spend at the auctions, spend at the lunches, donate to improvements, buy and sell the raffle tickets and to a lesser extent volunteer my services when they are required. I wonder what Walter does?

[Douglas Mawson]

The other thing that is offensive and patronising about the "move on" sentiment is the implicit argument that without the AFL reserves teams in the SANFL the competition would now decline further from its current state – and possibly even fail, so supporters should be "grateful for what they've got". On any view, the undeniable evidence of the falling crowds, is that despite Parkinson's galling and irresponsible spin, fan engagement in the competition has deteriorated. It's easy to say that the current decline is due only to the AFL teams' involvement when in fact a number of the clubs have been struggling financially for many years. That said, there are two identifiable features of the current competition for which the AFL clubs' presence is responsible and they are (i) the complete erosion of the integrity of the competition, and (ii) there are no "saviour" teams which have beneficially added to our league.

The news of this month brings into focus the real problem which confronts the SANFL:

Does it continue to pretend to accept the case sold by the two AFL clubs and allow their toxic inclusion in a compromised, unfair and uneven league in the hope that the AFL might one day genuinely spend some of its $2.5 billion on its "feeder" leagues with junior football programs?

Or does it accept that at least in the short term (and that may be the only term that is left for many of the disgruntled SANFL fans) the AFL's attention is absorbed by only growing the sport at the elite level and any AFL spend on "feeder" leagues or junior football will be confined to Auskick and disproportionate expenditure at the sub-elite level in New South Wales and Queensland?

And if the answer to the first question is "yes" then what a naiive and risk-laden business proposition. And if the answer to the second question is "yes" then what is the point of having both a ruined competition from an integrity point of view and no significant extra financial resourcing?

It's getting harder and harder to remain passionate about the SANFL, and my team's fortunes, for positive reasons - the reasons I grew up with when barracking for Norwood spoke to my soul. A lot of my "passion" these days seems to be borne of frustration.

[spell_check]

Perhaps some are staying away because they are indifferent to the competition but times change and rivalries change, move on. The challenge for the SANFL and the clubs is to put on a product which entices the fans out to the local game. I witnessed an excellent game 2 weeks ago between the Eagles & the Crows. If there were more of that standard you would have supporters flocking back to the grounds.

This is a comment from 'Walter' published at the end of Faulkner's article, and it touches on the perception that non-SANFL people (and based on its context, I'll assume Walter is a Crows supporter) have for the competition.

The most offensive and patronising thing is the 'move on' sentiment. Stop sooking about your league, times change, so harden up and get with the program, right? A lot of people have 'moved on' following the introduction of the Crows and Port in the last 25 years. They have accepted its place as a second tier competition. Moreover, they have spent (and continue to spend) a lot of time, money, and passion investing in their clubs, and to have a Johnny-come-lately tell you that you should disregard what it means to you is, well, flat-out offensive. When the boot is on the other foot and Crows are on the receiving end of unfavorable administrative decisions from above, then let's see who has the courage to 'move on'.

I find it amusing and annoying that those who spend the least amount of time participating in the SANFL seem to be the most opinionated voices in terms of how it should be managed and administered.

You know, 'Walter' that perfomance two weeks ago, can be seen as this:

The top side of the SANFL, two games ahead of 2nd place plays the 7th placed favourite. The top placed side leaves nothing on the park to get over the line by 4 points. Does that sound right in a 10 team competition?

[therisingblues]

Totally agree Spelly.
I reckon there's a good chance the SANFL had its grand final already. Ravens have been unstoppable recently, and from all reports of the WWT vs Crows game, the Eagles were completely spent at the final siren. I didn't hear much about the physical state of the Crows after the game, but it's probably safe to assume that WWT wanted it more.
It's a joke that a side could have a season as successful as the Eagles have had so far, but be classified as underdogs against the 7th side, whose restitution has consisted of nothing more than absorbing the worst players from the higher grade making way for better players.
In theory, every player that's dropped to make way for a returning player, is better than the previous player who was dropped ie. the 17th player dropped from the first side would be a better player than the 16th, you drop your worst players first.
If the crows front up with 18 AFL players this week, it could be considered as 17 AFL players plus their best player. So it's not just the number of AFL players on the field, but the progressively stronger ability of those individual players, proportional to the number of AFL players in their side.
THAT'S how the 7th ranked side suddenly becomes favourite against the top side.

[Magellan]

Its easy to follow a local AFL team.

Especially the Crows, who demand only one thing of its supporters - that they live in or simply identify in some way with the state of South Australia. Much like a state of origin team, which IIRC they had the gall to appropriate via a novelty showdown guernsey.

[CENTURION]

Do we have any good lawyers amongst our ranks? Would be interesting to see if what has happened to the SANFL contravenes any laws.

[Wedgie]

My daughters been a trainer down at South this year and despite me hardly talking to her about the issue she's more ropable than me about the AFL sides inclusion, she sees these poor plumbers, office workers, brickies, bar staff, salesmen, etc who have to get up at 6am every day to work and then train and play and try to compete with these professionals who her to spend every day training, recovering, lifting weights and resting for games and getting paid more money than the hard workers, she's disgusted being so close to the scene. She can't believe a team who potentially are paid millions against clubs with salary caps of a couple of hundred thousand including a reserves team are allowed to compete.
Our previously fair and awesome comp is a complete unfair rabble and its breaking so many loyal peoples hearts.

[LPH]

My daughters been a trainer down at South this year and despite me hardly talking to her about the issue she's more ropable than me about the AFL sides inclusion, she sees these poor plumbers, office workers, brickies, bar staff, salesmen, etc who have to get up at 6am every day to work and then train and play and try to compete with these professionals who her to spend every day training, recovering, lifting weights and resting for games and getting paid more money than the hard workers, she's disgusted being so close to the scene. She can't believe a team who potentially are paid millions against clubs with salary caps of a couple of hundred thousand including a reserves team are allowed to compete.
Our previously fair and awesome comp is a complete unfair rabble and its breaking so many loyal peoples hearts.

Good on your daughter for getting involved with SAFC - volunteers such as this are what's keeping Clubs & Players on the park.

Kurt Slaven & the WWTFC broke MY heart by voting yes without so much as an acknowledgment to those loyal enough to go through a Merger 20 years previous or pump Membership $$$ through the Club in that time.

The SANFL broke the hearts of 1000's of LOYAL Supporters by first lying to them, then taking the 'easy money' from the 'Interlopers'.

The Media broke the hearts of 1000's by virtually abandoning a 140+ year old Competition by silencing any 'Anti-Campaigners' by 'howling them down' on Air or simply not allowing them 'air time'.

Isn't it time they ALL acknowledged their mistake & 'booted' them from the competition & tried to salvage what is left of our once great competition, before it dies completely?

[stan]

Has anyone read through the comments on the Adelaide now page?

Some are real pearls there.

[Spargo]

The other thing that is offensive and patronising about the "move on" sentiment is the implicit argument that without the AFL reserves teams in the SANFL the competition would now decline further from its current state – and possibly even fail, so supporters should be "grateful for what they've got". On any view, the undeniable evidence of the falling crowds, is that despite Parkinson's galling and irresponsible spin, fan engagement in the competition has deteriorated. It's easy to say that the current decline is due only to the AFL teams' involvement when in fact a number of the clubs have been struggling financially for many years. That said, there are two identifiable features of the current competition for which the AFL clubs' presence is responsible and they are (i) the complete erosion of the integrity of the competition, and (ii) there are no "saviour" teams which have beneficially added to our league.

The news of this month brings into focus the real problem which confronts the SANFL:

Does it continue to pretend to accept the case sold by the two AFL clubs and allow their toxic inclusion in a compromised, unfair and uneven league in the hope that the AFL might one day genuinely spend some of its $2.5 billion on its "feeder" leagues with junior football programs?

Or does it accept that at least in the short term (and that may be the only term that is left for many of the disgruntled SANFL fans) the AFL's attention is absorbed by only growing the sport at the elite level and any AFL spend on "feeder" leagues or junior football will be confined to Auskick and disproportionate expenditure at the sub-elite level in New South Wales and Queensland?

And if the answer to the first question is "yes" then what a naiive and risk-laden business proposition. And if the answer to the second question is "yes" then what is the point of having both a ruined competition from an integrity point of view and no significant extra financial resourcing?

It's getting harder and harder to remain passionate about the SANFL, and my team's fortunes, for positive reasons - the reasons I grew up with when barracking for Norwood spoke to my soul. A lot of my "passion" these days seems to be borne of frustration.

This last paragraph resonates so much with me (inserting Glenelg for Norwood of course) - I'd say it speaks for many.

[therisingblues]

Yes Spargo, I think you are right about that last paragraph.
I am finding it hard to let go of my club, but the hooks that held me so close to the SANFL in the past are eroding. It's gotten so that whenever I think of the comp the first thing that springs to mind is that it's a really convenient training ground for those AFL teams.

[Magellan]

I agree as well about DM's last paragraph, well summed up.

I also fear for the future. In ten year's time, who will be going to watch and support the SANFL clubs on a weekly basis? Where will the future membership base come from? As I think a lot of others have already said, the presence of the Crows and Port in the comp, coupled with their dominant media presence can only mean that the next generation will see the SANFL through the lens of the AFL sides.

No matter how hard current SANFL diehard parents try to culture their kids into becoming loyal followers of their respective sides (and good on them for doing so), the day-to-day peer pressure and pulling power of classmates in the schoolyard, chock full of kids with Crows and Port allegiances, will probably erode any efforts to instill a SANFL culture in them in time. I recall at North's member's info night and this question came up, and the response was that the club hard to work extra hard in its zone to increase exposure (or words to that effect). But this approach cannot possibly compete with the sexier, slicker, and more pervasive AFL-based media atmosphere that exists in SA, especially when it is present in the same competition. A team of development officer could work Taiwanese sweatshop-like hours to promote their clubs, there's just not enough hours in the day to fight the dominant message that's out there.

I get the impression the 6 SANFL commissioners who voted 'yes' never heard the story of the Trojan Horse.

It may have been the case that this erosion was always going to happen, but at least if the clubs positioned and marketed themselves as an alternative then it could at least fought against the AFL tide. If it is/was going to dissolve into irrelevancy, at least it would've done so on its own terms. When it come to the crunch, dying on your feet is better then living on your knees. And that's the bit that makes me sad - having to accept that something I care about and that has been a part of my growing up existence is probably dying.

[Ian]

I just replied (still pending) to Andrews article, I hope it goes up, the only comments so far seem to be from die hard pro AFL in the SANFL muppets

This article is spot on, how many of you pro Reserves in The SANFL spruikers have been to a SANFL game in the past 2 years, for that matter, the past 10 years?

How many actually follow a traditional SANFL club (Port Reserves is no longer a traditional club)?

Anyone who does not believe the current situation is not doing more damage than has ever been done before either hasn't been to a game in a long time or is just blinded by the Corporate Franchise they follows self indulgent needs.

The people that count, those that go (or did go) week in week out are the important ones here, not someone that drops in for a quick look when their Corporate Franchise isn't playing at home, then not to be seen for another 10 games.

The $50K the crows pay to be a part ........... pfft!! Nothing more than a token insult, it goes no where near compensating for the destruction that these 2 Corporate Franchises have done to the oldest football competition in the world.

It's bad enough we have to accommodate individual players that train full time and earn more than a entire SANFL club's salary cap (incidentally, that is dictated to the SANFL by the AFL as well), then the 2 franchises get to play under 2 separate sets of rules to try and keep Ports traditional SANFL supporters happy.

If the AFL and it's member franchises took more of a NFL approach and embrace their feeder competitions (minor leagues, state leagues etc), support them, help them prosper and grow, give them their day to play without the top level playing as the NFL does, the crowds will come back, the passion will return and the AFL and their franchises would reap the benefits for decades to come, their current greed is destroying the hand that feeds them.