Adelaide Hills Cricket (HCA, TVCA & A&EH)

[Luigianna]

I think a lot of clubs will strongly consider Strath's proposal, especially clubs that don't currently field an A grade but aspire to. And players that have had a gut full of all the gaps in the season because of two day byes, and Sunday matches are likely to favour this too.

It is disappointing that nearly half the clubs in AEHCA don't currently field an A grade, and after the experience Mt Barker and Bremer/Callington had when they came up a few years ago it is not likely any A2 clubs would want to put their hand up to play A's under the current format and risk getting smashed outright. Currently, the bottom teams in the A grade are not overly competitive either and the top couple of teams are far stronger than every other team in the association. A one day comp will even this up IMO.

The amount of overs in the proposal is bound to be a hot topic. If a match makes it to 100 overs, it sure will be a long day, however if the umpires are vigilant in ensuring that bowling teams are not dawdling and the association puts sufficient rules in place for umpires to keep the game moving matches shouldn't finish much past 6.30 which would be ok if this is the exception not the norm. 18-20 overs per hour is definitely achievable, teams in A2's regularly do this. Time will tell i spose, but anything less than 50 overs per team is not sufficient in my opinion and i wouldn't imagine games would go past 90 overs much.

In terms of the other possible changes, i like the idea of rewarding the top two teams with a double chance in finals, as a one day cricket is more unpredictable and there is more likely the chance of an upset.

The 15m circle, or as mentioned above im sure was supposed to be a 30 yard circle should be simplified. Having 2 fielders outside the circle in first 15 is not at all relevant at all as clubs would never have more than 2 fielders in the outfield early in the game anyway and i agree Jackpot, it was more introduced for tv ratings and making games more exciting. But i think that having no more than 5 fielders out at any stages is a must to stop negative captaincy and teams bowling second 'killing' games off by putting all their fielders back when they get a big score. Maybe this should just be simplified to just not having more than 5 fielders outside the circle any time rather than messing around with 'powerplay' type rules.

For this reason, I think leg side wides should be put in the rules too. A grade bowlers will have the skill to bowl negatively down leg if games get tight and there needs to be a way to stop this and a universal leg side wide rule would stop this. There has been complaints that some teams do this in A2's and dont want games decided with those sorts of tactics.

The reality is though, the above points are quite minor in the scheme of things.... the main point is do people want to play exclusively one day cricket? My feeling is that two day cricket is not as appealing as it used to be and it is quite unbelievable that a two day games these days allow for nearly a third of the players to be replaced from one Saturday to the next.... and it is unreal how many teams have to do these changes from week to week. That is a big sign that two day cricket does not suit modern lifestyles. Also, the draw at the moment is a joke with all the byes and Sunday games, and there is too much dead cricket these days, including in the one day games played.

I like the proposal and definitely think it is worth a crack. If it isn't popular, there is no reason this cant be reviewed and changed in future seasons.

[Dutchy]

Good post, but I think once it is changed there is no going back to 2 day cricket, hence making it a big decision.

[Tony Clifton]

Why is there no going back?

Can't they trial the concept for one season with a vote/review at the end of the season?

[saintal]

After much deliberation TVCA clubs voted to keep some two day cricket in the fixture at the AGM back in March. Next season will see 5 two dayers and 8 or 9 one dayers (down from 6 two days this past season, and 7 in prior years). Finals will stay as two day games, and one dayers remain at 40 overs.

It's only a matter of time before it goes all one dayers I think. With one club threatening to move to another league year after year (which has proven to be nothing but bluff to this point), and a couple claiming that two day cricket could cause their demise (young blokes don't want to play it or commit), I'm surprised the vote went the way it did. There is a whisper that the weaker clubs will be looked after through a compromised draw, which will make a mockery of the comp if this does prove factual.

All of TVCA's 9 clubs are forced to field an A Grade side. Hence it's difficult to appease all clubs, but there are some benefits. There has also been talk of a 6-6-6 split between A Grade, A2 Grade and B Grade, something which again has pros and cons attached but may well appear in the future.

[saintal]

Good post, but I think once it is changed there is no going back to 2 day cricket, hence making it a big decision.

Tend to agree with this.

[Dutchy]

Why is there no going back?

Can't they trial the concept for one season with a vote/review at the end of the season?

Once you lose 2 day cricket and peoples habits change to 1 day cricket I cant see any situation where it will go back to 2 day cricket

[Tony Clifton]

What habits do you mean?

If people find the one dayers don't work (too many overs in a day, too many teams getting knocked over/finishing early) why wouldn't they go back to two dayers?

[Dutchy]

What habits do you mean?

If people find the one dayers don't work (too many overs in a day, too many teams getting knocked over/finishing early) why wouldn't they go back to two dayers?

Bit like going back to the typewriter after using a PC

[Tony Clifton]

Well, if they're better then what's the issue?

Seems a strange position to me that the competition shouldn't go to one dayers because people will like it too much and never go back.

[Luigianna]

The more i think about it, i really do hope that the AEHCA strongly consider the 50 over comp as it could be the shot in the arm it needs to refresh competition. I believe that there are some issues that a one day competition will address if this is voted in, and I'm sure that there will be a lot of interest from neighbouring association's as it is arguable that country cricket in this region isn't really that 'healthy' as it appears when looking into this in further depth:

- AEHCA - Has 13 clubs, with only 7 in currently in A grade and no sign of an A2 team coming up - and two of these clubs in the A's haven't played finals in the last 5 years (i don't even know when Ashbourne last played finals) and Woodside, Nairne and Strath only appear to be getting stronger every year. One would think that a one day competition will encourage more teams to put their hand up to go to A grade, and over time will close the gap between the top and bottom clubs which can only be good in the long run for the whole competition IMO.

- TVCA - Based on the post above, seems to be reducing the amount of two day games every year and this can only be attributed to demand, and a possible 'compromise' of a draw to make weaker teams more competitive is facial if this is true. By the sounds of this, two day cricket is being retained for the wrong reasons and it doesn't sound overly popular...... otherwise why would the amount of two day games be getting reduced every year?

- Hills - Appears to be the strongest of the local comps and results in Meyer shield would confirm this and i doubt there is any intention to change anything and i'm not saying that they should. Is it not concerning though that Meadows have not conceded a team total of not more than 50 runs in the last TWO A grade grand finals, and haven't lost a single game for several years (please correct me if i'm wrong here)? How strong is the competition really when taking this into consideration? Is the overall competition strong or just one club with an exceptional pool of talent in one team?

This is not a dig at any of these associations btw, just a mere observation from stats and past results (and gossip regarding the TVCA

Player numbers are dropping off in country cricket in general, and there is few young prospects that follow through to through to A grade country cricket these days in comparison to the past. Any kids with any sort of talent are identified in 14's and play underage SACA district in the arvo's and they tend to be retained by the grade clubs for several years. The vast majority of juniors appear to go AWOL somewhere between junior and senior level these days with so many more things to do, and possibly with less employment in country towns these days and with guys having to move to the city for uni and work contributes to this.

When trying to 'sell' playing cricket to a young guy with so many more things to do these days, it is especially hard to 'sell' the two day brand unless he is a quality bowler who gets the chance to bowl long spells most weeks (And if they are under 18, there have bowling restrictions on them anyway). The old traditionalists will say to a 18 year old batsman 'be patient, your time will come' etc when a young batsman is out of form and spending huge parts of a Saturday just scoring, umpiring and sitting around doing nothing when he gets out or fielding... regardless of whether us old timers like it or not, youngsters don't have the patience to persist that past players did when they were young, and this is due to cricket having a lot of competition these days. Maybe a change in format will be a more attractive option to retain, and hopefully attract more young guys to continue to play our great game.

[inside word]

Luigianna by the sounds of it mate you have written the proposal....... Anyway this topic has intrigued me. As a former player in Country cricket, i am completely and totally perplexed by this proposal and how it increases participation and the standard of the game. I have taken a keen interest in this comp since retirement called my name and have no idea why the association feels the need to do this? This proposal suits only 1 part of the game and that is batting, all it means if you aren't very good at batting you get to have a hit every week and show everyone week in and week out you aren't good! It doesnt suit bowlers who like to bowl big spells, and doesn't suit bowling all rounder's. To me it seems all to be catering for in the bowling department is the 5th or 6th bowler who isn't that great. My issue with this proposal is you are changing arguably the strongest comp in the Hills. Why would anyone want to do that?? I tell you why, cause some old batsmen who cant make a run to save himself wants to have as many hits as possible before father time calls him! MTCA went to one day cricket due to the fact it had to and to be honest the standard of cricket there is downright deplorable! It will do the same to this Comp if the association aren't careful! All credit to TVCA to continue with a mixture of both and clearly the Hills comp will have both as well. That is a great decision. The sticking point will be with this proposal is certain clubs want 40-45 overs a side while Strath want 50 each. (Talk about a stupidly long day) Rumours have it Strath wont vote for the any less while other clubs wont vote for any more! The only hope for the die hard cricketers who love 2 day cricket and who enjoy having a week off bowling to talk rubbish is that the clubs cant agree on the overs and the Comp stays the same way. For the sake of the game, i hope thats the case!

[jackpot jim]

Luigianna by the sounds of it mate you have written the proposal....... Anyway this topic has intrigued me. As a former player in Country cricket, i am completely and totally perplexed by this proposal and how it increases participation and the standard of the game. I have taken a keen interest in this comp since retirement called my name and have no idea why the association feels the need to do this? This proposal suits only 1 part of the game and that is batting, all it means if you aren't very good at batting you get to have a hit every week and show everyone week in and week out you aren't good! It doesnt suit bowlers who like to bowl big spells, and doesn't suit bowling all rounder's. To me it seems all to be catering for in the bowling department is the 5th or 6th bowler who isn't that great. My issue with this proposal is you are changing arguably the strongest comp in the Hills. Why would anyone want to do that?? I tell you why, cause some old batsmen who cant make a run to save himself wants to have as many hits as possible before father time calls him! MTCA went to one day cricket due to the fact it had to and to be honest the standard of cricket there is downright deplorable! It will do the same to this Comp if the association aren't careful! All credit to TVCA to continue with a mixture of both and clearly the Hills comp will have both as well. That is a great decision. The sticking point will be with this proposal is certain clubs want 40-45 overs a side while Strath want 50 each. (Talk about a stupidly long day) Rumours have it Strath wont vote for the any less while other clubs wont vote for any more! The only hope for the die hard cricketers who love 2 day cricket and who enjoy having a week off bowling to talk rubbish is that the clubs cant agree on the overs and the Comp stays the same way. For the sake of the game, i hope thats the case!

Not having a look at this thread for 3 or 4 weeks, its good to see there's a bit of emotion out there and also a variety of thoughts about the proposal.
The theory with the bowlers that usually bowl long spells is that instead of bowling say a 20 over spell every 2nd week, they get to bowl 10 overs every week.
From a personal point of view, I think the combined format of a mix of 2 day and 1 day matches are a good mix but the facts are that, thats not everyones preferred choice and having been part of the selection process in my club for decades, rarely does a 2 day match selection occur without plenty of headaches had, trying to juggle replacement players.
Our club will study the proposal in detail in coming weeks, strongly taking into account the views of our current A grade players.
At this early stage my feeling is that we wouldn't lose anyone by going to an all 1 day comp but by remaining as is, a few players may well just restrict themselves to the one dayers or T20 comp or not play any cricket at all.
As ive said b4, There's no perfect format that will suit everyone, so i guess it's the challenge to find the format that suits most for not only the present but the future as well.
Interesting to hear that Strath wont vote for anything LESS than their full proposal as presented.
As Luigianna stated, The main decision to be made is surely whether the A grade comp becomes an exclusively ONE DAY COMP.
If it is decided to go that way, then i think the Playing conditions are on the table to be decided upon.
I find it hard to see how Straths proposal in it's entirety could / will be voted in, in one hit.
I can understand Straths stance on its insistence that it is 50 overs per side, and even tho 50 over cricket is played in some other country comps successfully apparently. i have my doubts about it in regards to the possible length of the day.
A few 45 over games were trialed several years ago in A&EHCA but not much came of that as the general consensus was that it didnt make much difference. 50 overs is certainly a significant difference tho imo and whilst most A graders may be happy with that, i think the time available is the real concern.

[inside word]

i see you raised the selection issue jackpot, I think this will not change either, the fact is people aren't as committed to the game as much as they used to be, so you will still be looking for people every week. The clubs point of view is it will be easier to get people to play A grade when they know they will be doing something. This is farcical! Imagine being a okay bowler in the 2's and then having to front up to Nairne and getting dispatched onto the main road regularly, you think they are putting there hand up again? No! The simple fact is and its harsh, people who are capable of playing A grade who are playing in the 2's are simply not mentally tough!! The Comp will degenerate with this proposal and don't be shocked if some youngish cricketers don't play the game in the hills anymore!

[jackpot jim]

i see you raised the selection issue jackpot, I think this will not change either, the fact is people aren't as committed to the game as much as they used to be, so you will still be looking for people every week. The clubs point of view is it will be easier to get people to play A grade when they know they will be doing something. This is farcical! Imagine being a okay bowler in the 2's and then having to front up to Nairne and getting dispatched onto the main road regularly, you think they are putting there hand up again? No! The simple fact is and its harsh, people who are capable of playing A grade who are playing in the 2's are simply not mentally tough!! The Comp will degenerate with this proposal and don't be shocked if some youngish cricketers don't play the game in the hills anymore!

All clubs are in different situations when it comes to what format suits them most and circumstances can change very quickly.
Our club went from a situation of virtually begging players to make up an A grade team for a few years to having a squad of about 15 - 16 wanting to play A Grade every week. That turned around in the space of 12 months. The general perceived lack of commitment to the game by the current day player is certainly nothing new, ive seen this issue going on for the last 30 years. Clubs that are looking for players every week (my clubs been in that position many times) generally have the right intentions of putting in a certain number of teams, ensuring no one will miss out on a game. Unfortunately sometimes that is 1 team too many and has the opposite effect in commitment as players then know they can always get a game when they want as they'll be generally short. One thing we did notice in the last season in having too many players was the commitment levels to training and availability pick up as they knew spots were at a premium. This created tough selection decisions but it made for a better culture among the playing group and took away the frustration of having to chase players.
The selection issues involving 2 day matches for clubs with an A Grade occur from a combination of scenarios. Obviously starting with the unavailability of one or more players for both weeks. From my observations it's about 50/50 when it comes to having a genuine excuse not to play and simply a lack of commitment. Everyone has an opinion on whats genuine or not but the fact is most clubs go through the same circumstances of having players unavailable from week to week for whatever reasons. Throw into the mix the 'Bye' the following game and things then really get complicated as replacement players then didnt have the ability to drop back to the lower grades the following match.
The fact is that it gets very messy and with all grades aligning with the one day format would make it a lot easier.
You mention what bowler would want to come up and get smacked around? Thats a good question?
We've had situations where a 2nd grade bowler has been called up as a replacement in a 2 day game and has been pasted around the park all afternoon in a 2 dayer. Result - Im not playing A grade again. Then we've had the situation a few years ago in A Grade when they experimented with the one day games being stopped as soon as a result is achieved. We had several matches in which we batted 1st and made low totals. The teams chasing took 16 and 8 overs to get the runs and the game ceased. Result - Fill in bowlers said - "Thats it, not playing A Grade again, didnt get a bowl".
The point is, whilst changing to all one dayers will help with selection in some instances, i agree it will not solve all.
Every club is unique in their circumstances in regards to player numbers, availability, talent, commitment, ambitions etc and theres no one perfect format and set of playing conditions that are gonna come close to suiting all, and there within lies the difficulty of formulating policy that all will agree with in keeping playing country cricket an attractive option for the following generations of players to enjoy.
I dont have the perfect solutions but i like to think i have an open mind to change and the ability to digest different opinions in an attempt to formulate a program that is somewhat amicable to all clubs desires.
All change brings gains and losses but generally with no change, theres no future.

[Corona Man]

Excellent post Jackpot!

[inside word]

Only people this suits is Batsmen and owners of pubs considering how early certain games will be over when the weaker teams play the stronger teams! The discrepancy between the strong teams and weak teams will increase due to the fact the best bowlers won't be able to bowl as much, I tell you if I'm playing in a weak team and am trying to compete with a top team I'm using 3 bowlers for the day to give us the best chance. Anyone who disagrees with this is delusional and complete out of touch with the game!

[Tony Clifton]

Only people this suits is Batsmen and owners of pubs considering how early certain games will be over when the weaker teams play the stronger teams! The discrepancy between the strong teams and weak teams will increase due to the fact the best bowlers won't be able to bowl as much, I tell you if I'm playing in a weak team and am trying to compete with a top team I'm using 3 bowlers for the day to give us the best chance. Anyone who disagrees with this is delusional and complete out of touch with the game!

Not much fun if only three people are bowling surely.

Do weaker teams regularly topple top teams in two dayers now? Would think they're more of a chance in a one dayer to be honest.

There are always going to be lopsided games regardless of the format. At least with one dayers they're over after one Saturday and you move on to new opposition. Rather than draghing it out with teams having to front up again the next week after they've already lost on Day 1.

[inside word]

Only people this suits is Batsmen and owners of pubs considering how early certain games will be over when the weaker teams play the stronger teams! The discrepancy between the strong teams and weak teams will increase due to the fact the best bowlers won't be able to bowl as much, I tell you if I'm playing in a weak team and am trying to compete with a top team I'm using 3 bowlers for the day to give us the best chance. Anyone who disagrees with this is delusional and complete out of touch with the game!

Not much fun if only three people are bowling surely.

Do weaker teams regularly topple top teams in two dayers now? Would think they're more of a chance in a one dayer to be honest.

There are always going to be lopsided games regardless of the format. At least with one dayers they're over after one Saturday and you move on to new opposition. Rather than draghing it out with teams having to front up again the next week after they've already lost on Day 1.

You mentioned only 3 bowlers bowling wouldnt be much fun. Well i give you the big tip batting number 7 if this comp goes to one day cricket wont be much fun for them either against the weaker teams! I'm lucky enough even though i'm not playing still to still be in contact with a few guys and there view is there isn't anything wrong with this comp, This comp is the strongest in the hills area. Change for the sake of change is never good!!

[Dutchy]

This comp is the strongest in the hills area.

How do you justify that?

[inside word]

This comp is the strongest in the hills area.

How do you justify that?

Well in my opinion the top 3 sides in the A&EHCA are stronger than the hills Comp. Just my opinion, no ones opinion is wrong by the way....