Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby woodublieve12 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:33 am

Psyber wrote:Based on my experience in my medical life including a short time working in the Psych unit that was once attached to Yatala Prison, I am a bit cynical about "rehabilitated". I suspect that if these guys were released their rehabilitation would have evaporated, and they would be back dealing or smuggling, within 3 months.

I'm not generally for the death penalty, but each country has to weigh that moral issue against the high cost of running humane and secure prisons.


A indonesian prison is far worse then yatala...
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby woodublieve12 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:35 am

"Fellas, it’s OK to be in pain. It’s OK to hurt. It’s OK to be sad. It’s no longer OK to suffer in silence."
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Jim05 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:50 am

Pseudo wrote:
heater31 wrote:Maybe we should all rethink our position for Indonesia as a holiday destination for Australians.

Ironically if all the bogans stayed out of Bali then the place might actually be worth visiting ...

Thanks for the compliment lol
Back over there in May and October this year, would be happy if less tourists are there but I would never consider not going back just because a couple of drug smugglers are executed.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby MW » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:57 am

Stumps wrote:no its not.
illegal yes, maybe immoral but not unjust


splitting hairs mate
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:00 am

heater31 wrote:
whufc wrote:
I don't agree with capital punishment but unfortunately it is a law countries do have, easiest way to avoid it, don't do the crime, all about risk vs reward


But doesn't the Indonesian government try to do the exact same thing for their own citizens as we are with ours? Get a them off death row.....

Maybe we should all rethink our position for Indonesia as a holiday destination for Australians.

Bring back the beef export bans and what ever else we sell them.


I think I'll just refrain from taking drugs over there anymore.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:09 am

You make a very good point, LM.
Refrain from taking drugs over there. None of the Bali Nine took drugs over there, they were bringing them here.
So, where did the drugs come from and was anyone from the Indonesian end charged and are they facing the death sentence. We only hear about the Australian Nine. How about at the Indonesian end?
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Q. » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:45 am

The problem with this 'justice' is that it is only executing the vulnerable and doesn't actually do anything to stop illicit drug trade.

The king pins keep on keeping on, with Indonesian police and government officials in their pocket the whole time.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Booney » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:31 am

Pseudo wrote:
heater31 wrote:Maybe we should all rethink our position for Indonesia as a holiday destination for Australians.

Ironically if all the bogans stayed out of Bali then the place might actually be worth visiting ...


Bali, where footy trips are part of every day.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby tipper » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:49 am

on the rails wrote:The death penalty debate is a very emotive and polarising subject. What gets me annoyed with this latest matter is Heads of our Govt. and high profile media people calling for or threatening sanctions / actions against Indonesia including people starting FB pages re boycotting Bali but do we take any action or threaten the U.S. Govt.? 32 U.S States plus the U.S. Govt (including Military) have the death penalty as ultimate punishment. Are we starting a boycott of all things American and why isn't that idiot Abbott and Julie Bishop threatening Obama and co.

Hypocrisy lives long in AUS!


this.

on an semi related matter, the australian media seem to latch onto anything happening around the world to australians, and ignore things happening to people from any other country. why is it when there is a massive tradgedy the media focus here is always first and foremost on how many australians are involved?

"overnight there was a tragic plane crash, x people are dead including y australians".... seriously, is it a bigger tradgedy because there were australians involved? personally i think it is completely irrelevant how many aussies were involved, it should be about EVERYONE involved, not just the handful that live here. its disrespectful to the families of all of the others, just because they live elsewhere they are seemingly afforded less sympathy.

indonesia have been executing people for decades (or longer? ive not looked into it), despite a recent break, and no one cared previously. many other countries around the world do the same, yet there are no calls to boycott them. why should we care more for these particular convicted drug smugglers than we have for all of the others indonesia have executed over the years? just because they lived here? why shouldnt we care about the people on death row in the US just because they havent lived here?

i think most people (not all, and im not directing this at anyone in particular) are just jumping on a bandwagon. they dont really care about these two, its just the thing to do on social media, be seen to be supporting them. if they truly believed that the death penalty should be abolished in indonesia, where have they been before now? i havent seen any protests before now? no one holding placards outside the indonesian embassy, no humanitarian trips to meet with the indonesian government on the issue until it involved aussies.

i personally think this will all be forgotten about in 6 months. in that time indonesia could execute 30 people from 30 different countries and as long as none of them are aussies we as a country wont care, and i dont see that as right. aussies dont deserve any better treatment than anyone from any other country, and the fact that we as a country behave like we should is wrong.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby woodublieve12 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:11 pm

tipper wrote:
on the rails wrote:The death penalty debate is a very emotive and polarising subject. What gets me annoyed with this latest matter is Heads of our Govt. and high profile media people calling for or threatening sanctions / actions against Indonesia including people starting FB pages re boycotting Bali but do we take any action or threaten the U.S. Govt.? 32 U.S States plus the U.S. Govt (including Military) have the death penalty as ultimate punishment. Are we starting a boycott of all things American and why isn't that idiot Abbott and Julie Bishop threatening Obama and co.

Hypocrisy lives long in AUS!


this.

on an semi related matter, the australian media seem to latch onto anything happening around the world to australians, and ignore things happening to people from any other country. why is it when there is a massive tradgedy the media focus here is always first and foremost on how many australians are involved? Of course they will, they are presenting to the Australian people, people who may have Australian family members involved in the incident...

"overnight there was a tragic plane crash, x people are dead including y australians".... seriously, is it a bigger tradgedy because there were australians involved? personally i think it is completely irrelevant how many aussies were involved, it should be about EVERYONE involved, not just the handful that live here. its disrespectful to the families of all of the others, just because they live elsewhere they are seemingly afforded less sympathy. As above... It's still a tragedy at the same level, but they have to report if any Australians are involved,

indonesia have been executing people for decades (or longer? ive not looked into it), despite a recent break, and no one cared previously. many other countries around the world do the same, yet there are no calls to boycott them. why should we care more for these particular convicted drug smugglers than we have for all of the others indonesia have executed over the years? just because they lived here? why shouldnt we care about the people on death row in the US just because they havent lived here? So... Why would the average australian care about an american on death row? Most if not all people on death row in america are murderers.

i think most people (not all, and im not directing this at anyone in particular) are just jumping on a bandwagon. they dont really care about these two, its just the thing to do on social media, be seen to be supporting them. if they truly believed that the death penalty should be abolished in indonesia, where have they been before now? i havent seen any protests before now? no one holding placards outside the indonesian embassy, no humanitarian trips to meet with the indonesian government on the issue until it involved aussies.

i personally think this will all be forgotten about in 6 months. in that time indonesia could execute 30 people from 30 different countries and as long as none of them are aussies we as a country wont care, and i dont see that as right. aussies dont deserve any better treatment than anyone from any other country, and the fact that we as a country behave like we should is wrong.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby whufc » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:18 pm

tipper wrote:
on the rails wrote:The death penalty debate is a very emotive and polarising subject. What gets me annoyed with this latest matter is Heads of our Govt. and high profile media people calling for or threatening sanctions / actions against Indonesia including people starting FB pages re boycotting Bali but do we take any action or threaten the U.S. Govt.? 32 U.S States plus the U.S. Govt (including Military) have the death penalty as ultimate punishment. Are we starting a boycott of all things American and why isn't that idiot Abbott and Julie Bishop threatening Obama and co.

Hypocrisy lives long in AUS!


this.

on an semi related matter, the australian media seem to latch onto anything happening around the world to australians, and ignore things happening to people from any other country. why is it when there is a massive tradgedy the media focus here is always first and foremost on how many australians are involved?

"overnight there was a tragic plane crash, x people are dead including y australians".... seriously, is it a bigger tradgedy because there were australians involved? personally i think it is completely irrelevant how many aussies were involved, it should be about EVERYONE involved, not just the handful that live here. its disrespectful to the families of all of the others, just because they live elsewhere they are seemingly afforded less sympathy.

indonesia have been executing people for decades (or longer? ive not looked into it), despite a recent break, and no one cared previously. many other countries around the world do the same, yet there are no calls to boycott them. why should we care more for these particular convicted drug smugglers than we have for all of the others indonesia have executed over the years? just because they lived here? why shouldnt we care about the people on death row in the US just because they havent lived here?

i think most people (not all, and im not directing this at anyone in particular) are just jumping on a bandwagon. they dont really care about these two, its just the thing to do on social media, be seen to be supporting them. if they truly believed that the death penalty should be abolished in indonesia, where have they been before now? i havent seen any protests before now? no one holding placards outside the indonesian embassy, no humanitarian trips to meet with the indonesian government on the issue until it involved aussies.

i personally think this will all be forgotten about in 6 months. in that time indonesia could execute 30 people from 30 different countries and as long as none of them are aussies we as a country wont care, and i dont see that as right. aussies dont deserve any better treatment than anyone from any other country, and the fact that we as a country behave like we should is wrong.


My thoughts exactly
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby tipper » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:25 pm

why shouldnt the average australian care about an american on death row? arent we all humans? shouldnt we all afforded the same rights? arent most of the people crying out about this particular situation saying that the death penalty is barbaric full stop? or are they just against the death penalty for drug smuggling? or just against the death penalty for australians? im confused...

by the way, i dont actually disagree with the death penalty for certain crimes (i wouldnt personally have included drug smuggling as a capital offence, but im not getting my nickers in a bunch over it), im just asking why the outcry now, over these two, when hundreds of people are put to death by the courts in many countries around the world, and no one here bats an eye. do we as australians really believe that we should be treated differently to people from other countries? i certainly dont. i dont think i am better than anyone else just because i live here, certainly luckier than some, but not better. do you think you are better than others?

obviously i am in the minority though, mustnt be on 'team australia" or something. silly me thinking that all people from all countries should be equal.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby woodublieve12 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:24 pm

Why should i care for convicted murderers?
I've never said that i am against the death penalty, and i've never said that these to aussies deserve to be...

What i have said i have an issue with a country putting people to death when they are hugely corrupt and unjust. They let terrorists, murderers and rapists free, but a drug smuggler is the worst then them?
When people in the courts taking bribes, when you have jail staff dealing drugs and when they crack the shits when other countries get involved in situations as the one we are talking about, but meanwhile paying millions for the realease of convicted murderers in saudi arabie who are on death row.

None of the drugs they were smuggling were going to harm the indonesian people. NONE!!!!

Are these two about to die saints? hell no...

why the outcry you ask, because they don't deserve to be murdered ina turn of the century execution!!
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby tipper » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:48 pm

woodublieve12 wrote:why the outcry you ask, because they don't deserve to be murdered ina turn of the century execution!!


but how is that any different to the others that have been executed by firing squad over there in the past? the only difference i see is that these two happen to be australian, which should be irrelevant.

if the outcry is about the process and not the individuals, i look forward to a 7 page post from the sa footy community every time indonesia are preparing to execute by firing squad other drug dealers that dont happen to be from australia.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:57 pm

Sooo...how many Indonesians have been executed over there, you'd better tell us (please don't Google search, I want to know how much you care about the topic).
Why would Australians care about what happens in Indonesia unless it happens to an Australian?
It's a big world out there and hard to keep up with all that's going on it, let alone deal with our own lives day-in and day-out.
I'm right into current affairs and listen to news radio every day of the week, but if someone like me can't keep up, why should or how can the average Australian GAS unless it concerns them?
Just because people don't protest every time someone is executed, doesn't mean they should care less that Australians are being executed.
This attack on myopia is almost a myopic view in itself.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby cennals05 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:04 pm

Dogwatcher wrote:You make a very good point, LM.
Refrain from taking drugs over there. None of the Bali Nine took drugs over there, they were bringing them here.
So, where did the drugs come from and was anyone from the Indonesian end charged and are they facing the death sentence. We only hear about the Australian Nine. How about at the Indonesian end?



The death penalty, it found, violated Article 28 of the Indonesian constitution, which guarantees everyone the right to life. It went against the country's 1999 law on human rights. The chief judge, Imron Anwari, went so far as to say the purpose of criminal sentencing was to educate, correct and prevent additional wrongdoing. It even quoted Article 3 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/death-for-c ... 3dp7u.html
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby tipper » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:06 pm

thats my point, i dont care about how many indonesians are executed, just as i dont care about these two. its another country, with their own rules. its not my business. i dont care any more or less about these two than i have about others being executed in the past.

what i care about is all the bullshit about "its barbaric" "they shouldnt be executing people", whatever, its crap. im not suggesting that the people making the statements should care less because they are australians, i am suggesting that if they actually mean what they say they should start caring more when it isnt australians. otherwise it is all just noise for the sake of being noticed.
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:04 pm

Perth now:

Criticises Indonesian officials for having photo's taken with Andrew Chan yet they go and put them up on their website.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world/b ... 7248353841
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby heater31 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:05 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:Perth now:

Criticises Indonesian officials for having photo's taken with Andrew Chan yet they go and put them up on their website.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world/b ... 7248353841

Not just them it's the whole News Ltd network..... :roll:
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Re: Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:16 pm

heater31 wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:Perth now:

Criticises Indonesian officials for having photo's taken with Andrew Chan yet they go and put them up on their website.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world/b ... 7248353841

Not just them it's the whole News Ltd network..... :roll:

So I've just been informed, I don't watch any form of news.
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