AP 14/06/07 + WHEELER+ MT79+ JOHNNIE+VICGIRL+ROO

[mal]

DISCUSSION FROM 06/06/07 PREVIEW WHEELER+ BREEDING
---------------------------------------------------------

Some darn good discussion between MT79/MAL and newcomers
to the SAFOOTY site Vicgirl and Johnnie on the 6/6 preview.
One such topic raised was the Breeding industry or lack of it
and the influence prominent Interstate owners the Wheelers have in SA

I am divided on this issue.
The breeding industry is my pet topic, I would love some champs coming
through the system but realistically it dosent happen like the golden days.
To breed, rear, feed and raise a hound might be as expensive in SA as in the
eastern states, but the obstacle is the lower prizemonies in SA.
Approximately 5-10% of pups make the racecourse, to perservere for about
12-18 months with these dogs gets very expensive.
In the east the rewards are great if they make it in SA the rewards are miniscule.
Basically the breeding system is in tatters.
A mate of MT79/MAL called Looch did many thousands of $$$ breeding dogs
He has recently given up in frustration.

About 1990 onwards saw the beginning of the proliferation of ex interstate dogs
coming over to race in SA.
Most were good , well credentialled and well known dogs who generally added
to the overal standard of racing in this state.

Around 2000 or thereabouts the Wheeler invasion hit our state.
Wheelers sent over multitude of low class, low ability dogs to race in SA
Tony Rasmussen, Steve Collins, Nathan Rooney, Shaun Matcott are some of the
trainers who got on the Wheeler dealer production line.
The system is quite clever and Wheeler is making some good $$$$ ?????????????
The SA agents have a large turnover of racing dogs and make a living out of it.
The Collins family was the best and biggest exponents of the Wheeler dogs.
The whole family are delightful people and very nice sociable hard working people.
They are a family making a living, and I personally wish them all the successes they deserve.
The family headed east for greener pastures.
What the joint missess is that lovely bubbly sociable Tammy Collins.[Steves daughter]
The kid was a breath of fresh air, and was liked by many at AP


So in summary the Breeding Industry is struggling
The purchase of Interstate dogs reaches greater dimensions as a result.

BUT I dont think its a perfect solution.
The class of dogs going around are the poorest we have had since inception
in the early 1970s, and this is having a detriment to the industry.
By having Wheeler dogs here we dont have a turnover of more local syndicates
and or owners and the $$$$ on course is not there.

The solution can only be raising prizemonies
Thats easier said then done
Administrators are handsomely paid at AP thats not an ideal balance when dog trainers
are basically struggling to earn a living from low prizemonies
A focus on oncourse attendances through promotions is essential for the future.

Im sure Johnnie/Vicgirl [both seem to be intelligent in the know people] MT79+ Rooburger
will add to this post.


PREVIEW
---------

R4-6 RUTLAND REASON
An ex NSW dog with great WPK form
In the brilliant Troy Murray kennell
This might be the dog I mentioned in a post as trialling extremely well.
2 of the owners are prominent greyhound people [TG +RJ]
Did win at WPK 3 runs ago
Be one to watch in SA

R5-5 ASSASSINS MOJO
Handy 2nd on debut over the 600m last run
Has early pace and should run a race
EW

R11-3 IMMORTAL LOVE
Led the exhillerating SKULL MURPHY for about 150 metres last run say no more.
Ran 30-04 and looks the testing material in this
WIN

[vicgirl]

I think to blame Wheeler for the decline in SA is a cop out! He is an easy target to blame but the fact is that if you breed a faster/better dog it will beat his. We breed about 2 litters a year feed them the best trat them great from well bred sires and dams and we have basically thrown away thousands as they have not been much good. We take 2 litters a year from Paul and we are 3rd stringers after Daillys and Bates and we have more success with his dogs than any we have tried to breed ourselves. I dont know what the solution in SA is but unfortunatley i think they will have to close some country tracks as they would just be money pits and keep the ones close to adelaide going.

[mighty_tiger_79]

there have been talks in the past that Harness Racing Sa should be run under VIC, disregard the BENTLEY report, should Greyound Racing Sa be run by the VICS?

[mighty_tiger_79]

1 - 2 rumford reason

3 - 2 moose master

4 - 6 rutland reason

7 - 6 springvale snow

8 -6 Als Conquest

10 - 6 Prince tiramus

11 - 3 Immortal Love

well ive taken these in all ups as doubles and ive also taken races 1 and 11 as bankers with races 7 and 10 in 3 leg all ups for win/place.
the unfortunate thing with the WA TAB is the all ups are only 3 legs and you cant go win/place, they have to be all win or all place!!!!!

just taken the all ups on my centrebet account!!!!!!

no limit of races, brilliant!!! unfortunately they have to be all win or place as well.

[mighty_tiger_79]

RACE 02 NON PENALTY 520M 7.05PM

HT 1 BRANDONS GROUP 2 QLD DERBY

(FOR MALE GREYHOUNDS WHELPED ON

OR AFTER 01/11/2004)

1 METEOR EXPRESS 4 ROSS OGDEN

2 CIRCULATE 5 ASHLEIGH WILLIAMS

3 BIG SWELL 5 TINA WOMANN

4 SLEEK AND SMART 5 JOHN CONLON

5 VACANT

6 BOGIE BLAZE 5 TONY BRETT

7 MASAI MAGIC 5 ERROL SUELL

8 SCULL MURPHY 1 ROBERT ISAACSON

RACE 05 NON PENALTY 520M 8.05PM

HT 4 BRANDONS GROUP 2 QLD DERBY

1 RUMBLE FIRE 3 STEPHEN KAVANAGH

2 JINDIVIC 5 DIANE HANNON

3 RICH BOOM 5 SARAH PRINGLE

4 OLD MATE 5 GARRY GEARY

5 EMERLEY CARLOS 1 PETER HURLEY

6 DIRTY VEGAS 5 RON BALL

7 BEYOND THE CALL 3 DAVID ROBARTSON

8 COULTA BOMBER 1 ROBERT BRITTON

RACE 06 NON PENALTY 520M 8.25PM

HT 5 BRANDONS GROUP 2 QLD DERBY

1ST LEG TBLE

1 TREW MILLIONS 5 TINA WOMANN

2 CHECK YA POCKETS 5 DAVID IRWIN

3 RED JAZZ 5 SANDRA HUNT

4 SLIPAWAY TIM 5 ASHLEY RUMBLE

5 POWER OF TEN 5 JOHN REIMER

6 MANDAGERY MAN 1 SAM SULTANA i believe it is scratched

7 GIVE ME FIVE 3 DARREN MURRAY

8 WINOKI 3 PETER GILES

[rooburger]

well my two cents worth is that i believe there is no real future from breeding and racing together,
money in sa is too limited and the gene pool of good bitches is low rate.
look at the current top 20 bitches here and add up thier prize money they won when racing?.
breeders will supply animals to the highest bidder which in turn is not from s.a. thus giving us a slow decline of talent of s.a. bred dogs.
interstaters have kept this industry alive all being at a low class standard, some trainers have held up quality while othrs have just grabbed the money.
whats the answer?
i believe we all have to accept all starters but a harder grading of substandard dogs must be adhered to,
s.a. bred dogs must be allowed to compete on merits and be rewarded more favourably (not walk up starts)
the industry also has to answer other questions in relation to crowds and facilities,which in turn completes the package.
there is no right or wrong answer but i,m afraid the current trend will continue and we will adjust to the next level, it's just human nature to put up and get on with it!

[mal]

Vicgirl
Rooburger

2 immaculate answers from different perspectives.
The answer to the breeding industry is oblivious
Perhaps its time the well paid administators find a solution.
Otherwise the current standoff will futher demise the industry.

The club needs some on course stimulation perhaps.
Stalemating the situation is a recipe for futher decimation.
Adhering to possible reforms is a possible solution.

I say the club needs to be extravagent in its approach , be bold
and aventurous,and become innovative, and in turn checkmate.

[mal]

For the benefit of MT79 + Bayman
The above post means the club needs to try something instead of doing nothing.

[mighty_tiger_79]

For the benefit of MT79 + Bayman
The above post means the club needs to try something instead of doing nothing.

thanks for clearing that up for me, as it went straight over my head, al those big words...............................

[mal]

For the benefit of MT79 + Bayman
The above post means the club needs to try something instead of doing nothing.

thanks for clearing that up for me, as it went straight over my head, al those big words...............................

I used the extensive vocabulary to impress upon Vicgirl

[mighty_tiger_79]

For the benefit of MT79 + Bayman
The above post means the club needs to try something instead of doing nothing.

thanks for clearing that up for me, as it went straight over my head, al those big words...............................

I used the extensive vocabulary to impress upon Vicgirl

vicgirl would be the only poster on here who would understand those words anyway, and MAL, just admit it, you got the dictionary out for those words........

[mighty_tiger_79]

there is also a QUADDIE jackpot in melbourne tonight, and it looks pretty easy. its also heats of the Laurels there tonight also.

[mal]

PREVIEW BETS BETS

RUTLAND REASON WIN $2-50 WINS
ASSASSINS MOGO EW $1-50 PLACED
IMMORTAL LOVE WIN LOSES after being 6 in front why ???? unimalgible how that could happen

slight profits

[SCD]

there is also a QUADDIE jackpot in melbourne tonight, and it looks pretty easy. its also heats of the Laurels there tonight also.

tell us MT - did you have the third leg @$20?? My mate here and I took a quaddie...

I got legs 1,2,4 and he got legs 1,3,4 - we should have combined - it paid good at $650 or so...

[mighty_tiger_79]

there is also a QUADDIE jackpot in melbourne tonight, and it looks pretty easy. its also heats of the Laurels there tonight also.

tell us MT - did you have the third leg @$20?? My mate here and I took a quaddie...

I got legs 1,2,4 and he got legs 1,3,4 - we should have combined - it paid good at $650 or so...

i didnt take one, i spent all my money in my WA account on the ALLUPS on angle park.

[mighty_tiger_79]

1 - 2 rumford reason WINNER

3 - 2 moose master 2ND

4 - 6 rutland reason WINNER

7 - 6 springvale snow LAST

8 -6 Als Conquest WINNER at juicy $10!!!!!!!!!

10 - 6 Prince tiramus 4th!!!!!!!!!!!

11 - 3 Immortal Love 2nd

well ive taken these in all ups as doubles and ive also taken races 1 and 11 as bankers with races 7 and 10 in 3 leg all ups for win/place.
the unfortunate thing with the WA TAB is the all ups are only 3 legs and you cant go win/place, they have to be all win or all place!!!!!

just taken the all ups on my centrebet account!!!!!!

no limit of races, brilliant!!! unfortunately they have to be all win or place as well.

[Booney]

Vicgirl
Rooburger

2 immaculate answers from different perspectives.
The answer to the breeding industry is oblivious
Perhaps its time the well paid administators find a solution.
Otherwise the current standoff will futher demise the industry.

The club needs some on course stimulation perhaps.
Stalemating the situation is a recipe for futher decimation.
Adhering to possible reforms is a possible solution.

I say the club needs to be extravagent in its approach , be bold
and aventurous,and become innovative, and in turn checkmate.

Hey mal,why use a big word when a diminutive one will do?

[furrrvola]

Wheeler is a businessman, and took advantage of the generous appearance money on offer. Instead of keeping the best to win the good races, he just named anything with 4 legs and a pulse, and palmed them out to anyone that could capitalise on his plan.
You can't blame Wheeler for finding a way to make money in the greyhound game...after all Sangster did it with the thoroughbreds.

The problem in SA was, and this is why the unrest started, and that was the training (for want of a better word) tactics of those with the Bale dogs. These dogs would be nominated for every meeting available, running 3-4 times a week, being multiple nominated. So what was happening, these low class dogs, with a placing to their name, were getting starts, and in most cases, most of the fields were filled with Wheeler's dogs.

The punters did not want to bet on them. Small breeders stopped breeding, and basically, the industry in SA started to close down. People with grade 5 dogs couldn't get a start, and when you can't race, you can't win money. No money means the local suppliers aren't selling meat and products. Local breeders cant sell their pups, and generally, the whole system was crashing.

No, you can't blame Wheeler. He's a genius. But typical of smart business men...they don't give a f*** who they tread on. He only came up with the plan, it's the way it was implemented that hurt SA.
Do you really think Collins started training cos he's good at it? He got into the system cos there was money to be made. And how many times did you see his groupies running round laying big bets on the roughie..and it got up.
And you wonder why people spat at the Bale dogs.

Some of the country tracks are too old and far away to be worth injecting more money into. It's all very well to say the locals need them, but if you can't make money on the tracks, they have to close. Well maybe not completely, but relegated to limited meetings, and if the locals want to keep going on their own backs for trials etc, good on them, let them do that.
The only way money can go back into the races is by TAB turnover, and pokies.
Forget the restaurant bullshlt, and gate takings. It's what betting goes on, and no one wants to bet on a Wheeler race, or a bunch of non chasing cats on some country track.

Boost the prizemoney at Angle Park, and keep the good dogs there, and encourage more good dogs to race there. Betting will improve, turnover will increase, return will benefit the trainers.

Vicgirl, always nice to see you back home.

[mighty_tiger_79]

maybe they should close down all the tracks and race at ANGLE PARK all the time.

I mean WA is a huge state but only has 3 dog tracks.

[mal]

Wheeler is a businessman, and took advantage of the generous appearance money on offer. Instead of keeping the best to win the good races, he just named anything with 4 legs and a pulse, and palmed them out to anyone that could capitalise on his plan.
You can't blame Wheeler for finding a way to make money in the greyhound game...after all Sangster did it with the thoroughbreds.

The problem in SA was, and this is why the unrest started, and that was the training (for want of a better word) tactics of those with the Bale dogs. These dogs would be nominated for every meeting available, running 3-4 times a week, being multiple nominated. So what was happening, these low class dogs, with a placing to their name, were getting starts, and in most cases, most of the fields were filled with Wheeler's dogs.

The punters did not want to bet on them. Small breeders stopped breeding, and basically, the industry in SA started to close down. People with grade 5 dogs couldn't get a start, and when you can't race, you can't win money. No money means the local suppliers aren't selling meat and products. Local breeders cant sell their pups, and generally, the whole system was crashing.

No, you can't blame Wheeler. He's a genius. But typical of smart business men...they don't give a f*** who they tread on. He only came up with the plan, it's the way it was implemented that hurt SA.
Do you really think Collins started training cos he's good at it? He got into the system cos there was money to be made. And how many times did you see his groupies running round laying big bets on the roughie..and it got up.
And you wonder why people spat at the Bale dogs.

Some of the country tracks are too old and far away to be worth injecting more money into. It's all very well to say the locals need them, but if you can't make money on the tracks, they have to close. Well maybe not completely, but relegated to limited meetings, and if the locals want to keep going on their own backs for trials etc, good on them, let them do that.
The only way money can go back into the races is by TAB turnover, and pokies.
Forget the restaurant bullshlt, and gate takings. It's what betting goes on, and no one wants to bet on a Wheeler race, or a bunch of non chasing cats on some country track.

Boost the prizemoney at Angle Park, and keep the good dogs there, and encourage more good dogs to race there. Betting will improve, turnover will increase, return will benefit the trainers.

Vicgirl, always nice to see you back home.

Echhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoing the thoughts of many FURRVY
Cant blame the WHEELER dealers for making a buck but at what cost to the industry.