Eric 2014

[The Sleeping Giant]

I think the issue really needs to be is why is there not an AFL Reserves competition. Other sports with significant less income and media coverage are able to have reserve comps. I thought the AFL was the biggest sport in Australia??? perhaps not

I agree, even EPL teams have reserves teams.

The NFL doesn't and I see the AFL moving towards their model more if anything. Search for Phil Herden's posts on the NFL regarding this debate and you will see that elite sport can work fine without any reserves competition at all.

Never heard of college football?

[Grahaml]

Never heard of college football?

Guess you know nothing about it because College football is completely different to a reserves comp.

The lack of any second tier football comp is a problem for NFL sides. That's why you see the same guys getting cut by a side, signed by another and so it continues. Outside of drafting in college players there's no talent pool to draw new blood from or to let blokes outside the side develop.

[johntheclaret]

If you think by not attending you are going to make a difference well......
Every member had a chance to make their stand at every AGM.

Hhhhmmmm. My request for a postal vote must have been misplaced.

I found the process a bit long winded too TSG. Having to apply for an application was a bit OTT but there was enough non postal voters to make a difference. Ask Truck

[johntheclaret]

Bit unfair to keep referring to supporters with a different viewpoint to you as sheep. It's derogatory and suggests anyone who doesn't agree with you should be insulted. And you deride Trigg's tactics, what's the difference?

Here's some observations though.
How many clubs have had an AGM since they voted for AFL Reserves into the SANFL?
How many of those board members have been voted off because of their decision to vote Yes to the AFL Reserves?
I know at North the only board member to vote no to the AFL Reserves was not re-elected?
The Crows are paying $50k per club. How many memberships does that equate to?
Sponsorship is paying for CH7. How much did ABC2 cost the clubs last year.
How much additional ground advertising will the clubs get as a result of CH7

If you think by not attending you are going to make a difference well......
Every member had a chance to make their stand at every AGM.
Talking about getting rid of the bye, I could suggest that leaving the SANFL as it was would have gotten rid of the bye alright. But not just by losing Port. I think you might have added Sturt, West and possibly Glenelg to that list.

Still a 6 club comp would get rid of the bye and what's sacraficing a couple of SANFL clubs if it means winning the No AFL Reserves argument

Definatly understand what your saying and for the record I'm pretty certain I haven't called anyone 'sheep'

The problem that has to be included though is that less memberships would probavly mean less income through potentially less usage of club facilities, less members probably also means less future members example being by my loss interest my two girls will now longer be spending time around SANFL football meaning less chance they will grow up liking the SANFL.

Also there is no guarentee on how long the reserves side and channel 7 will be around for

The sheep comment wasn't directed at you whufc.
And I agree, there is no guarantee, but for the foreseeable future it seems that's the way the SANFL wants to go.

[johntheclaret]

Bit unfair to keep referring to supporters with a different viewpoint to you as sheep. It's derogatory and suggests anyone who doesn't agree with you should be insulted. And you deride Trigg's tactics, what's the difference?

Here's some observations though.
How many clubs have had an AGM since they voted for AFL Reserves into the SANFL?
How many of those board members have been voted off because of their decision to vote Yes to the AFL Reserves?
I know at North the only board member to vote no to the AFL Reserves was not re-elected?
The Crows are paying $50k per club. How many memberships does that equate to?
Sponsorship is paying for CH7. How much did ABC2 cost the clubs last year.
How much additional ground advertising will the clubs get as a result of CH7

If you think by not attending you are going to make a difference well......
Every member had a chance to make their stand at every AGM.
Talking about getting rid of the bye, I could suggest that leaving the SANFL as it was would have gotten rid of the bye alright. But not just by losing Port. I think you might have added Sturt, West and possibly Glenelg to that list.

Still a 6 club comp would get rid of the bye and what's sacraficing a couple of SANFL clubs if it means winning the No AFL Reserves argument

This is offset by Cows members getting in free to SANFL games.
This mystical figure of 4000 extra patrons Trigg and Co promised doesnt mean jack because they aren't paying a cent to get in and they will probably bring their lamingtons and thermos so no money will be spent at the ground.
They should be paying full tote entry fee atleast the clubs would have a chance of making some money

Are you being serious Jim? I put you down as more realistic than that.
You're suggesting that any fan from Port or Adelaide won't spend any money at any club they visit, whereas all SANFL fans do?
Even if you were right what has that got to do with the $50k

[Jim05]

Bit unfair to keep referring to supporters with a different viewpoint to you as sheep. It's derogatory and suggests anyone who doesn't agree with you should be insulted. And you deride Trigg's tactics, what's the difference?

Here's some observations though.
How many clubs have had an AGM since they voted for AFL Reserves into the SANFL?
How many of those board members have been voted off because of their decision to vote Yes to the AFL Reserves?
I know at North the only board member to vote no to the AFL Reserves was not re-elected?
The Crows are paying $50k per club. How many memberships does that equate to?
Sponsorship is paying for CH7. How much did ABC2 cost the clubs last year.
How much additional ground advertising will the clubs get as a result of CH7

If you think by not attending you are going to make a difference well......
Every member had a chance to make their stand at every AGM.
Talking about getting rid of the bye, I could suggest that leaving the SANFL as it was would have gotten rid of the bye alright. But not just by losing Port. I think you might have added Sturt, West and possibly Glenelg to that list.

Still a 6 club comp would get rid of the bye and what's sacraficing a couple of SANFL clubs if it means winning the No AFL Reserves argument

This is offset by Cows members getting in free to SANFL games.
This mystical figure of 4000 extra patrons Trigg and Co promised doesnt mean jack because they aren't paying a cent to get in and they will probably bring their lamingtons and thermos so no money will be spent at the ground.
They should be paying full tote entry fee atleast the clubs would have a chance of making some money

Are you being serious Jim? I put you down as more realistic than that.
You're suggesting that any fan from Port or Adelaide won't spend any money at any club they visit, whereas all SANFL fans do?
Even if you were right what has that got to do with the $50k

Of course they will spend money it was just a dig at their supporters. I just dont think the $50k is enough especially when they are getting free entry. I would of preferred their fans to pay something at the gate, I dont know of any other AFL club membership that gives free entry to all of their reserve games.

[mighty_tiger_79]

but clubs get $100k - $50k from each

[tipper]

but clubs get $100k - $50k from each

nowhere have i seen it that the power are paying the same 50k to each club, i hope they are, but if it could be linked to confirm i would be appreciative, thanks.

on a slight aside, add one to the tally for south and centrals memberships for this season, i purchased my memberships online yesterday. thats 4 memberships from my household that North will miss out on this season directly due to the reserves vote. and i wont be going to games either. thats a couple of hundred bucks in memberships and god knows how much i put over the bar each weekend that they wont be getting, wont take too many more like me and that 50k the crows are paying will evaporate....

and JTC, i had my say at the info night, and was laughed at by our illustrious president, i voted at the agm against the only board member that was resitting who alledgedly voted yes, but unfortunately our legion of happy clappers in the stand were happy to vote how our president wanted, and he was returned.

as you said though, too little too late anyway. ill enjoy my weekend time doing other things this year. ill keep an eye on how things unfold, but i wont hold my breath they will change. to those that are still going to attened/buy memberships, i have no problem with your decision. everyone has to decide for themselves what they will do. just because we disagree, doesnt mean one of us is wrong (unless it is my wife and i with the disagreement..... )

to any centrals supporters, i am going to try to get to your first home game. ill be the fat bastard in the North gear with a centrals membership. come up and say hi and we can have a beer

[kickinit]

Port setup is different to the crows. Port don't have a set amount it will pay the SANFL, it will hand back it's annual dividend generated by the SANFL. Port membership also works the same as every other SANFL club, so you can buy just a home game membership or a home and away membership. Not sure how much the other clubs make off the home and away membership. In saying all that though how much actually goes back to the clubs no one knows, more then likely they will receive nothing.

[whufc]

Port setup is different to the crows. Port don't have a set amount it will pay the SANFL, it will hand back it's annual dividend generated by the SANFL. Port membership also works the same as every other SANFL club, so you can buy just a home game membership or a home and away membership. Not sure how much the other clubs make off the home and away membership. In saying all that though how much actually goes back to the clubs no one knows, more then likely they will receive nothing.

Port have come out of the reserves debacle with alot more respect than the corporate crows have!!

That I think most people will agree upon.

[JK]

Port setup is different to the crows. Port don't have a set amount it will pay the SANFL, it will hand back it's annual dividend generated by the SANFL. Port membership also works the same as every other SANFL club, so you can buy just a home game membership or a home and away membership. Not sure how much the other clubs make off the home and away membership. In saying all that though how much actually goes back to the clubs no one knows, more then likely they will receive nothing.

Port have come out of the reserves debacle with alot more respect than the corporate crows have!!

That I think most people will agree upon.

I concur

[johntheclaret]

Port setup is different to the crows. Port don't have a set amount it will pay the SANFL, it will hand back it's annual dividend generated by the SANFL. Port membership also works the same as every other SANFL club, so you can buy just a home game membership or a home and away membership. Not sure how much the other clubs make off the home and away membership. In saying all that though how much actually goes back to the clubs no one knows, more then likely they will receive nothing.

Port have come out of the reserves debacle with alot more respect than the corporate crows have!!

That I think most people will agree upon.

I concur

I concur with your concur

[JK]

Port setup is different to the crows. Port don't have a set amount it will pay the SANFL, it will hand back it's annual dividend generated by the SANFL. Port membership also works the same as every other SANFL club, so you can buy just a home game membership or a home and away membership. Not sure how much the other clubs make off the home and away membership. In saying all that though how much actually goes back to the clubs no one knows, more then likely they will receive nothing.

Port have come out of the reserves debacle with alot more respect than the corporate crows have!!

That I think most people will agree upon.

I concur

I concur with your concur

concurrent concurrences, nice!

[areaman]

Port have come out of the reserves debacle with alot more respect than the corporate crows have!!

That I think most people will agree upon.

They certainly have let the Crows take most of the fire over the changes whilst getting the result both clubs wanted.

One reason people think they came out of it with respect is they sat back and let the Crows do the heavy lifting.

Both franchises equally culpable in my opinion.

[mighty_tiger_79]

possibly, but I think the fact that Port wanting to maintain its junior grades is far more beneficial for football, than the crows who aren't interested in investing in junior teams

maybe Port just said those things and didn't mean them, who knows.

but the crows, well they can well and truly go and get faaaarked

[StrayDog]

Yeah ideally no bye and a lot more rounds than 18 though, but 18 does have its merits with it being the fairest draw since I was born possibly ever.

Yeah, pretty much, 1975 the only year since Glenelg's league infancy that all sides have played all others equally in the minor round.

[kickinit]

Port have come out of the reserves debacle with alot more respect than the corporate crows have!!

That I think most people will agree upon.

They certainly have let the Crows take most of the fire over the changes whilst getting the result both clubs wanted.

One reason people think they came out of it with respect is they sat back and let the Crows do the heavy lifting.

Both franchises equally culpable in my opinion.

Don't know were you got they sat back and let the crows do the heavy lifting. Port put in a lot more effort then the crows did. Like Keith Thomas going around and speaking to every club president about their proposal. All the crows did was say we want a reserve side.

How do you put the blame on them. They put forward a proposal, they didn't have a say in the vote. If every club had voted no then nothing would of changed. If you want to blame someone then blame the clubs that voted yes, as they are the ones that have let this happen.

[JK]

How do you put the blame on them. They put forward a proposal, they didn't have a say in the vote. If every club had voted no then nothing would of changed. If you want to blame someone then blame the clubs that voted yes, as they are the ones that have let this happen.

Can't really get away from this and the final buck has to stop with the SANFL Yes voters.

I think the angst toward the Crows is more regarding:

1. The SANFL clubs were prepared to admit them to the reserves comp, but that wasn't good enough for them
2. The unqualified comments to assist their sales process (we will bring 4,000 people to every game)
3. The claim they wouldn't proceed unless the vote was unanimous

At the end of the day you are right though, the clubs could have prevented it - Although those frightened of their financial future probably could argue they wouldn't have had such insecurity had the SANFL been financially healthier. Im not sure why I felt the need to go over this again lol, no point looking back now.

[mighty_tiger_79]

I just had a random thought

most of us here hate the farrrrking crows and have mentioned abandoning our clubs when they play the Ressie sides.

but I thought that by attending the crows games, would be a great opportunity to release some stress by verbally abusing them at any and every opportunity.

$14 to yell and scream for 2 hours might be cheaper than seeing a psychiatrist!

[areaman]

They certainly have let the Crows take most of the fire over the changes whilst getting the result both clubs wanted.

One reason people think they came out of it with respect is they sat back and let the Crows do the heavy lifting.

Both franchises equally culpable in my opinion.

Don't know were you got they sat back and let the crows do the heavy lifting. Port put in a lot more effort then the crows did. Like Keith Thomas going around and speaking to every club president about their proposal. All the crows did was say we want a reserve side.

How do you put the blame on them. They put forward a proposal, they didn't have a say in the vote. If every club had voted no then nothing would of changed. If you want to blame someone then blame the clubs that voted yes, as they are the ones that have let this happen.

Believe me, I do.

Including my own club.