SA Footy

matt35 wrote:Of course players required new contracts, they were playing in an entirely different competition under entirely different playing conditions. Oh, and a side note, while the licence was granted to the Port Adelaide Football club in 1995, the Port Adelaide Football club did not enter a team in to the AFL competition in 1996, rather 1997. One club, two entities. Not hard!

Oh, and while on the subject of "legal documents", I very much look forward to someone finding me one which refers to the "Port Power reserves". Just a hint, you will not find one, yet I am the one accused of denying reality! "Port Power reserves" is nothing more than an SAFooty fiction invented by people who do not like the new set up.

RB wrote:

matt35 wrote:The fact that the club is now allowed to play their AFL listed players in the SANFL, does not make them any less the Magpies in the SANFL,

To the extent that the club of Williams, Motley, Ebert, Quinn etc. is capable of becoming a reserves team and somehow retain its essence, sure. Yes, there is a team running out in the Sanfl wearing black and white and calling itself the Magpies. But surely a club's substantial, rather than superficial character is what makes a club?

I'm not in any position to tell Port/Power/magpies fans why they should or shouldn't support which team. However, objectively, this is the story:

A big change happened in 2014. While numerous changes have occurred to the club over 140+ years, the common thread from 1870-2013 was that the Magpies were a sovereign club, playing to win the flag, and not subservient to an AFL's teams developmental and tactical experiments. This year, that changed.

This year, the team exists to give the Power's young/unfit/crap players a run, and to try various things, teach Irishmen how to play, etc. From 1870-2013, it was 100% focused on winning the Sanfl premiership. Now it's about winning the AFL flag; the Sanfl is secondary where an inconsistancy arises. I.e. a reserves team.
Winning flags (in the comp it played in) was always the one and only goal of the Magpies I knew.

Surely, after changing to such an essential degree, this team can't claim to be the Magpies anymore. As Wedgie said, you can call your son Gary Ablett Jnr. Doesn't mean you're Gary Ablett. (Thanks to Wedgie for the analogy!

Wedgie wrote:

matt35 wrote:Port Adelaide Football club unable to play as the Magpies in the AFL, not because they suddenly became a new Football club, but because the competition they were now entering already had an existing team known as the Magpies.

Incorrect mate, I used to think that but had to admit I was wrong when pointed out to the facts and evidence.
Port Adelaide Football Club changed their name to the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club.
Same club, same entity, same business, new name.
It was the only way the entirely new franchise in the AFL could use the same name.
Hence contracts with players that the Magpies had in 95 were not needed to change for 96, same club.
Players that went from the Magpies to the Power 95 to 96 needed new contracts as they were playing for an entirely new club even though it stole the name of the club that was still in the SANFL.
The Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club which is the original PAFC no longer exists.
Dead buried.
The club now in the AFL with their reserves in the SANFL are the new entity in 96 that took over the name from its previous owner.
FACTS, supported by legal documents.
Club that was around for over 100 years and won 30 something premierships is dead and buried, no longer, kaput.
The club playing AFL and SANFL has been around since 1996. If I name my next son Gary Ablett Jnr it doesn't mean he's a Brownlow medalist.

whufc wrote:

RB wrote:

matt35 wrote:The fact that the club is now allowed to play their AFL listed players in the SANFL, does not make them any less the Magpies in the SANFL,

To the extent that the club of Williams, Motley, Ebert, Quinn etc. is capable of becoming a reserves team and somehow retain its essence, sure. Yes, there is a team running out in the Sanfl wearing black and white and calling itself the Magpies. But surely a club's substantial, rather than superficial character is what makes a club?

I'm not in any position to tell Port/Power/magpies fans why they should or shouldn't support which team. However, objectively, this is the story:

A big change happened in 2014. While numerous changes have occurred to the club over 140+ years, the common thread from 1870-2013 was that the Magpies were a sovereign club, playing to win the flag, and not subservient to an AFL's teams developmental and tactical experiments. This year, that changed.

This year, the team exists to give the Power's young/unfit/crap players a run, and to try various things, teach Irishmen how to play, etc. From 1870-2013, it was 100% focused on winning the Sanfl premiership. Now it's about winning the AFL flag; the Sanfl is secondary where an inconsistancy arises. I.e. a reserves team.
Winning flags (in the comp it played in) was always the one and only goal of the Magpies I knew.

Surely, after changing to such an essential degree, this team can't claim to be the Magpies anymore. As Wedgie said, you can call your son Gary Ablett Jnr. Doesn't mean you're Gary Ablett. (Thanks to Wedgie for the analogy!

yep 100% agree

and that's not saying that the current Magpies aren't trying to win each game or the flag but is an undeniable fact that as of 2014 the Magpies sole existence is to now develop players for the clubs priority side the Power AFL team.

Magpies 1870-2013 = Magpie players looking to win SANFL premiership with assistance from players from both south Australian AFL sides as per all the other SANFL clubs.

Magpies 2014- Power reserves players looking to play there way into Ports AFL side/list with the assistance of top up players to field a side.

What ever way anyone wants to spin it is a fair change of 'culture, objectives, obligations'

But if I was a Port supporter I could see why they would consider this to be the best set up for the club and to be honest if was a Port supporter in 97 I would have probably followed the Power and my interest in the Magpies would have only been very slight.

saintal wrote:Steve Summerton pretty much said all of this during his rant late last season. The 'Magpies' are there for the Power, end of story.

Anyway, it's a minor issue to me in this whole debate.

kickinit wrote:

Wedgie wrote:

matt35 wrote:

Have you been to Port game at AO this year? If you have or haven't here is message they play directed at people that think like you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1D1mh9o08eU

RB wrote:

tipper wrote:lol, so the entry of the reserves teams, and the complete change to the fabric of the competition has no bearing on driving people away? its the very reason i have stopped going, and i know others in the same boat. up to two games a weekend are now a training run, why would i pay to go watch that? i never watched Norths reserves in the past, why would i watch a reserves league now?

The exact same applies to me, only substitute North for WWT. I have lost interest largely due to not being interested in reserves.

N.B. My cat and dog remain paid up WWT members.

Booney wrote:

Apachebulldog wrote:

johntheclaret wrote:

Apachebulldog wrote:Most SANFL supporters between 1990 and 2013 had become accustomed to having AFL players allocated to their local SANFL teams and therefore were playing under the same rules and conditions.
I have given this AFL RESERVES debacle some thought.
I do not know if this concept has been thought of before but my idea is.
As the Magpies were killed off last year we now have Eight traditional SANFL clubs remaining.
I propose the the Power align themselves with FOUR SANFL clubs eg Central District North Adelaide Woodville West Torrens and South Adelaide.
The Crows align themselves with Four SANFL clubs as well Norwood Glenelg Sturt and West Adelaide.
Thus no more BYES as well.
Each AFL club will then allocate FIVE AFL players to each of the four SANFL clubs to which it is aligned to 4 x 5 = 20 players.
Those AFL players who cannot make the SANFL league team will also be able to play in the SANFL reserves.
With this set up the competition once again becomes a level playing field with every team once again under the same rules.
The only drawback is that their will no longer be a Magpie team but we must remember they were killed off last year.
Fellow posters what are your thoughts would this work ???????

No

Hey JTC don't get me wrong i am totally with you my first preference is that these two AFL interloping parasites FAAAAAARKKKK OFF out of our competition.
However should there be any involvement i would prefer the lesser of two evils and that is having FIVE AFL listed players allocated to each of the EIGHT sovereign SANFL teams.

Yes you are right the inteerst in this site has waned because of their intrusion.

It might just be because of the manner in which it was discussed on here.

As for JTC's idea, it's good you've been thinking John, but I think you've got some more thinking to do yet.

kickinit wrote:

saintal wrote:Steve Summerton pretty much said all of this during his rant late last season. The 'Magpies' are there for the Power, end of story.

Anyway, it's a minor issue to me in this whole debate.

When Summerton made those comments was when it was rumoured that Port would follow the crows plus get rid of the magpies altogether. Bit hard to use that as any evidence when it was related to a situation that never happened

Wedgie wrote:

matt35 wrote:Port Adelaide Football club unable to play as the Magpies in the AFL, not because they suddenly became a new Football club, but because the competition they were now entering already had an existing team known as the Magpies.

Incorrect mate, I used to think that but had to admit I was wrong when pointed out to the facts and evidence.
Port Adelaide Football Club changed their name to the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club.
Same club, same entity, same business, new name.
It was the only way the entirely new franchise in the AFL could use the same name.
Hence contracts with players that the Magpies had in 95 were not needed to change for 96, same club.
Players that went from the Magpies to the Power 95 to 96 needed new contracts as they were playing for an entirely new club even though it stole the name of the club that was still in the SANFL.
The Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club which is the original PAFC no longer exists.
Dead buried.
The club now in the AFL with their reserves in the SANFL are the new entity in 96 that took over the name from its previous owner.
FACTS, supported by legal documents.
Club that was around for over 100 years and won 30 something premierships is dead and buried, no longer, kaput.
The club playing AFL and SANFL has been around since 1996. If I name my next son Gary Ablett Jnr it doesn't mean he's a Brownlow medalist.

sjt wrote:

kickinit wrote:

saintal wrote:Steve Summerton pretty much said all of this during his rant late last season. The 'Magpies' are there for the Power, end of story.

Anyway, it's a minor issue to me in this whole debate.

When Summerton made those comments was when it was rumoured that Port would follow the crows plus get rid of the magpies altogether. Bit hard to use that as any evidence when it was related to a situation that never happened

Rubbish, it was after a meeting was held telling the players what was happening. But, yes it was prior to him getting a contract offering, after the idiotic sanfl allowed them to change the rules of the port power reserves inclusion.

kickinit wrote:

sjt wrote:

kickinit wrote:

saintal wrote:Steve Summerton pretty much said all of this during his rant late last season. The 'Magpies' are there for the Power, end of story.

Anyway, it's a minor issue to me in this whole debate.

When Summerton made those comments was when it was rumoured that Port would follow the crows plus get rid of the magpies altogether. Bit hard to use that as any evidence when it was related to a situation that never happened

Rubbish, it was after a meeting was held telling the players what was happening. But, yes it was prior to him getting a contract offering, after the idiotic sanfl allowed them to change the rules of the port power reserves inclusion.

Um incorrect, Steve is pretty happy with the current setup and they where the words from his mouth before he was given a contract.

Booney wrote:Must take ages for some of you to type out those posts.

Beating yourself with one hand, typing with the other......

It's good that you've all moved on though, not dwelling on it too much.

whufc wrote:

RB wrote:

matt35 wrote:The fact that the club is now allowed to play their AFL listed players in the SANFL, does not make them any less the Magpies in the SANFL,

To the extent that the club of Williams, Motley, Ebert, Quinn etc. is capable of becoming a reserves team and somehow retain its essence, sure. Yes, there is a team running out in the Sanfl wearing black and white and calling itself the Magpies. But surely a club's substantial, rather than superficial character is what makes a club?

I'm not in any position to tell Port/Power/magpies fans why they should or shouldn't support which team. However, objectively, this is the story:

A big change happened in 2014. While numerous changes have occurred to the club over 140+ years, the common thread from 1870-2013 was that the Magpies were a sovereign club, playing to win the flag, and not subservient to an AFL's teams developmental and tactical experiments. This year, that changed.

This year, the team exists to give the Power's young/unfit/crap players a run, and to try various things, teach Irishmen how to play, etc. From 1870-2013, it was 100% focused on winning the Sanfl premiership. Now it's about winning the AFL flag; the Sanfl is secondary where an inconsistancy arises. I.e. a reserves team.
Winning flags (in the comp it played in) was always the one and only goal of the Magpies I knew.

Surely, after changing to such an essential degree, this team can't claim to be the Magpies anymore. As Wedgie said, you can call your son Gary Ablett Jnr. Doesn't mean you're Gary Ablett. (Thanks to Wedgie for the analogy!

yep 100% agree

and that's not saying that the current Magpies aren't trying to win each game or the flag but is an undeniable fact that as of 2014 the Magpies sole existence is to now develop players for the clubs priority side the Power AFL team.

Magpies 1870-2013 = Magpie players looking to win SANFL premiership with assistance from players from both south Australian AFL sides as per all the other SANFL clubs.

Magpies 2014- Power reserves players looking to play there way into Ports AFL side/list with the assistance of top up players to field a side.

What ever way anyone wants to spin it is a fair change of 'culture, objectives, obligations'

But if I was a Port supporter I could see why they would consider this to be the best set up for the club and to be honest if was a Port supporter in 97 I would have probably followed the Power and my interest in the Magpies would have only been very slight.

kickinit wrote:

Wedgie wrote:

matt35 wrote:Port Adelaide Football club unable to play as the Magpies in the AFL, not because they suddenly became a new Football club, but because the competition they were now entering already had an existing team known as the Magpies.

Incorrect mate, I used to think that but had to admit I was wrong when pointed out to the facts and evidence.
Port Adelaide Football Club changed their name to the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club.
Same club, same entity, same business, new name.
It was the only way the entirely new franchise in the AFL could use the same name.
Hence contracts with players that the Magpies had in 95 were not needed to change for 96, same club.
Players that went from the Magpies to the Power 95 to 96 needed new contracts as they were playing for an entirely new club even though it stole the name of the club that was still in the SANFL.
The Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club which is the original PAFC no longer exists.
Dead buried.
The club now in the AFL with their reserves in the SANFL are the new entity in 96 that took over the name from its previous owner.
FACTS, supported by legal documents.
Club that was around for over 100 years and won 30 something premierships is dead and buried, no longer, kaput.
The club playing AFL and SANFL has been around since 1996. If I name my next son Gary Ablett Jnr it doesn't mean he's a Brownlow medalist.

No it doesn't mean he is the Brownlow medalist. But if Gary Ablett Jnr had a son named wedgie it would mean wedgie was the son of the brown low medalist. While I would like to see those legal documents it doesn't surprise me if there isn't any. At the end of the day we don't really care what you think of us, simply because it means absolute jack what you think of us, just like it always has been.

We Are The Port Adelaide Football Club set 1870 always have always will be. Nothing you or others post will never never change that.

Booney wrote:"CHEATING" (Using capitals helps when getting your point across) would be playing outside of the rules governing the competition.