SA Footy

One of the things I've found strange out of this is that there was no remonstration from anyone - not a flicker of a reaction - from Eagles players from the initial incident. You can read into that the players around the incident felt it was an unfortunate accident and not malicious. So why the reaction from Grocke?

Fair point and I agree.

The first contact seemed to be viewed by the players as a clash of two blokes going for the ball and one came off second best.

Do you get the feeling Grocke's was an "evener-upper"?

Dogwatcher wrote:One of the things I've found strange out of this is that there was no remonstration from anyone - not a flicker of a reaction - from Eagles players from the initial incident. You can read into that the players around the incident felt it was an unfortunate accident and not malicious. So why the reaction from Grocke?

After it became obvious Andrew Ainger was likely to be stretchered off and the play came to a halt, at the umpires call, the two respective sides gathered in their seperate huddles, as is usually the case...

Coming out of the goal square at the southern end, Michael Wundke (of course a former South team mate of Ainger and a close friend) did try and sound Collier out for a little bit of a bump and niggle...

What wasn't seen on tv was the high-five and enthusiastic pats on the head Collier was given by Central team mates while Ainger was on the ground and the two teams formed team huddles, as if knocking out the opposition CHF was a prize. Very easy to see how that would piss off the Eagles players - if you look at it from their point of view. Just like if I put a Central hat on I could see it as encouragement to Collier for not shirking the contest.

Still no excuse for what happened - but I have no doubt it was an "evener-upper". Very coincidental if it wasn't.

Aerie wrote:What wasn't seen on tv was the high-five and enthusiastic pats on the head Collier was given by Central team mates while Ainger was on the ground and the two teams formed team huddles, as if knocking out the opposition CHF was a prize. Very easy to see how that would piss off the Eagles players - if you look at it from their point of view. Just like if I put a Central hat on I could see it as encouragement to Collier for not shirking the contest.

Still no excuse for what happened - but I have no doubt it was an "evener-upper". Very coincidental if it wasn't.

Don't worry the Eagles players were all giving Grocke pats on the back after his hit as well so stop trying to make excuses for him.

As I've already stated I was appalled by the Eagles supporters around me after the Grocke incident. They were saying Symes deserved it and then making jokes about how Grocke should do it again to another player throughout the game. I have never heard anything like it in my 30+ years of attending SANFL.

All in the heat of the moment c05, heard plenty of that banter from the UUUUUDDDDOOOGGSSSSS crew

So, from what you're saying, it was the perception of the Dogs' reaction that provoked the evener-upper?

5.30 tonight - Mr Grocke will learn how many games he gets.

Dogwatcher wrote:So, from what you're saying, it was the perception of the Dogs' reaction that provoked the evener-upper?

I think so. A very quick "get back in your kennel" after a bit of bravado from the Central players.

PS. I am not saying this is ok! Far from it!

SimonH wrote:It was clearly a case of 2 blokes running for the same mark from different directions, one realises that he's going to come 2nd and thinks 'I'm at least going to make him earn it' and turns his body to collide with the marking player. Happens pretty much every game. He got it badly wrong by hanging his elbow out to dry, in circumstances where his body was not going through the line of Symes' body, and he knew that both he and his opponent had momentum up and were coming from opposite directions. His height also contributed to the hit being high. In addition, it was not late (Symes not only hadn't completed the mark before being knocked out, the ball had barely touched his hands), which is in some ways better and in some ways worse (Grocke could and should have spoiled). So it's reckless.

Very well put SimonH. When I mentioned this same thing a few days ago, there were numerous bulldogs supporters who disagreed and made some ridiculous statements including one that mentioned Symes had already taken the mark and Grocke’s hit was 5 seconds later.

I had a very clear view of the incident and the vision proves that the impact occurred at the same time Symes marked the ball. Further, due to the angle of the camera, it is impossible to tell whether Grocke’s eyes were on the ball (in an attempt to spoil) or purely to take out the player. In addition, it doesn’t show whether (if at all) Grocke made any attempt to pull up (I believe he certainly could have pulled up).

What is clearly not in any doubt, regardless of Grocke’s intent, was that his action was undertaken with a raised forearm that made contact with Symes' head.

Grocke should be expecting a sentence that will make him think twice about doing it again. But talk of him getting ‘banned for life’ are completely ridiculous.

Mr Fuller wrote:

SimonH wrote:It was clearly a case of 2 blokes running for the same mark from different directions, one realises that he's going to come 2nd and thinks 'I'm at least going to make him earn it' and turns his body to collide with the marking player. Happens pretty much every game. He got it badly wrong by hanging his elbow out to dry, in circumstances where his body was not going through the line of Symes' body, and he knew that both he and his opponent had momentum up and were coming from opposite directions. His height also contributed to the hit being high. In addition, it was not late (Symes not only hadn't completed the mark before being knocked out, the ball had barely touched his hands), which is in some ways better and in some ways worse (Grocke could and should have spoiled). So it's reckless.

Very well put SimonH. When I mentioned this same thing a few days ago, there were numerous bulldogs supporters who disagreed and made some ridiculous statements including one that mentioned Symes had already taken the mark and Grocke’s hit was 5 seconds later.

I had a very clear view of the incident and the vision proves that the impact occurred at the same time Symes marked the ball. Further, due to the angle of the camera, it is impossible to tell whether Grocke’s eyes were on the ball (in an attempt to spoil) or purely to take out the player. In addition, it doesn’t show whether (if at all) Grocke made any attempt to pull up (I believe he certainly could have pulled up).

What is clearly not in any doubt, regardless of Grocke’s intent, was that his action was undertaken with a raised forearm that made contact with Symes' head.

Grocke should be expecting a sentence that will make him think twice about doing it again. But talk of him getting ‘banned for life’ are completely ridiculous.

The really worrying thing was that Grocke's eyes never once deviated from Brad Symes' face. To try to defend his action by saying he was going in for the spoil is ludicrous, in fact sickening. If it was an attempt to spoil, it has to be the worst attempt ever.

holden78 wrote:How nice Gowans thinks he should open his trap, SHUT UP HALF BRAIN

Aerie wrote:

Wedgie wrote:Despite a bit of confusion the only relevent issue here in regard to the hit a few seconds later was the intent and there was no doubting Syme's intent was to help the Eagles player which is commendable.Tragic really that probably the nicest and most caring player on the field was hit like he was.

I've been quite torn in the issue and have regarded Adam Grocke as a friend, he's a part of a lovely family that does an amazing amount of work for charity. But there is no doubting he tries to influence himself on a game at times with physical strength. I think Adam would be struggling with this and I'd think he would have already tried to contact Brad to express his regret, no excuse I know but he's not a bad person.

Well said. This was one action that anyone at the Eagles or Grocke himself (I'd imagine) would be ashamed of. It wasn't in the spirit of the game and he deserves a lengthy suspension (6-8 weeks?).

I don't think you can draw out this one action to reflect what he would be like on the other side of the white line, or even what he is like or has been like as a footballer for his whole career. He has been very good and once he's served his time on the sidelines, he can be very good again. In general, he influences the game with physical strength in a fair manner. This time he didn't because he was seething from what happened to a team mate minutes earlier, and that is no excuse neither, just what happened.

Thankfully Symes doesn't have facial fractures or a broken jaw to go with his concussion and hopefully Symes will have the option to continue to play if he wants to.

The Eagles as a football club probably need to reflect a little on the reputation they're gathering. Kane's hit on Gallagher in 2012 was equally disturbing and Parry stepped over the line a couple of times too often. Play hard by all means, that is a must, but play fair.

Good post.

While I think his hit was disgraceful and I'm not trying to make it sound right but I wouldn't be surprised over the last two days if Grocke has looked at the Collier/Ainger incident and gone, shit that wasn't as bad as I thought it looked on Saturday.

Sad part is if him and Symes are genuinely mates off the field his gonna have to live with a fair bit of guilt especially if brad is forced to retire from it.

I kind of feel for Grocke (anyone who has played sport with and against me would say I'm no thug but have definatly had a few brain snap moments).

I think Grocke as a big bloke and experienced player in the squad was definatly looking to make a physical stand for his fallen teammate but he unfortunately misjudged the situation, got the hit horribly wrong and worse of all probably did it to the least deserving bloke on the park.

I'm still just gutted by teams reaction to the hit, I feel a part of me died inside. I was speaking to a ex player last night with over 5 premiership medals and like he said in the days of the Gowans, Quinno, Josh Coulter, Danny Hulm, Luke Cowan, Yves Sibenaler, Brent Guerra that kind of hit would have started one of the biggest brawls in SANFL history.

cennals05 wrote:As I've already stated I was appalled by the Eagles supporters around me after the Grocke incident. They were saying Symes deserved it and then making jokes about how Grocke should do it again to another player throughout the game. I have never heard anything like it in my 30+ years of attending SANFL.

Don't read the 2010 Grand Final thread then.

Not far away. I'm think it should be 8 weeks but I think he will get 5.
Some people have a perception out there (be it fair or not) that the Eagles get looked after in a lot of ways by the SANFL.
This might dispel or reinforce those perceptions.

I'm still just gutted by teams reaction to the hit, I feel a part of me died inside. I was speaking to a ex player last night with over 5 premiership medals and like he said in the days of the Gowans, Quinno, Josh Coulter, Danny Hulm, Luke Cowan, Yves Sibenaler, Brent Guerra that kind of hit would have started one of the biggest brawls in SANFL history.[/quote]

All those players were from an era (probably the last) where it was ok to do that after such an incident. It was called 'sticking up for your mates'. Had they done it on the weekend then they would have lost players to suspension which wouldn't have helped the team. Of course 'sticking up for your mates' also appeared to be Grocke's motive yet he decided to do it in an incredibly stupid and reckless way. And will pay the price.

I will be very interested in the outcome tonight. I am sure the SANFL will be looking to make a state given it occurred during a week where the dangers of concussion were highlighted. No doubt the eagles lawyers will be arguing to ignore all the media hype and look at the act in isolation. It is simply no different to the Kane-Gallagher incident last year which barely raised a mention (even more so now Symes has been diagnosed with concussion rather than fracture) and the verdict should reflect this.

Mr Fuller wrote:I'm still just gutted by teams reaction to the hit, I feel a part of me died inside. I was speaking to a ex player last night with over 5 premiership medals and like he said in the days of the Gowans, Quinno, Josh Coulter, Danny Hulm, Luke Cowan, Yves Sibenaler, Brent Guerra that kind of hit would have started one of the biggest brawls in SANFL history.

All those players were from an era (probably the last) where it was ok to do that after such an incident. It was called 'sticking up for your mates'. Had they done it on the weekend then they would have lost players to suspension which wouldn't have helped the team. Of course 'sticking up for your mates' also appeared to be Grocke's motive yet he decided to do it in an incredibly stupid and reckless way. And will pay the price.

I will be very interested in the outcome tonight. I am sure the SANFL will be looking to make a state given it occurred during a week where the dangers of concussion were highlighted. No doubt the eagles lawyers will be arguing to ignore all the media hype and look at the act in isolation. It is simply no different to the Kane-Gallagher incident last year which barely raised a mention (even more so now Symes has been diagnosed with concussion rather than fracture) and the verdict should reflect this.

Agree losing a player to suspension doesn't help in the short term but the comrardarie it shows could bring a whole squad together a lot closer.

If I was a Dogs player now I would be thinking who the f**k is gonna have my back if things get tough considering no one 'really' stood up when the captain went down.

Mr Fuller wrote:
I will be very interested in the outcome tonight. I am sure the SANFL will be looking to make a state given it occurred during a week where the dangers of concussion were highlighted. No doubt the eagles lawyers will be arguing to ignore all the media hype and look at the act in isolation. It is simply no different to the Kane-Gallagher incident last year which barely raised a mention (even more so now Symes has been diagnosed with concussion rather than fracture) and the verdict should reflect this.

When was the Kane/Gallagher incident? I can't find a report on the SANFL website. Was it during the finals?

Mr Fuller wrote:When I mentioned this same thing a few days ago, there were numerous bulldogs supporters who disagreed and made some ridiculous statements including one that mentioned Symes had already taken the mark

Well I guess I have to put my hand up for that bit. I have to admit my perception didn't match up very well with the video. Mr Fuller I asked what game you were watching, seems I need to check my diary as to where I was.

holden78 wrote:How nice Gowans thinks he should open his trap, SHUT UP HALF BRAIN

Which one and what did he say?