SA Footy

Panther Pack wrote:

bennymacca wrote:Are there any Victorians on here that can share first hand experience of how it works in the VFL? There are still some clubs with no afl affiliation correct? As a rule how do they go with regards to support, crowds, success?

The VFL has turned into a joke currently there are 5 clubs without any affiliation to an AFL club however Bendigo and Coburg both used to have affiliations but have now split. both of these clubs are now at the bottom of the ladder and are the AFL's whipping boys. Speaking to my brother who lives in Bendigo a lot of supporters were originally against the affiliation with Essendon and now that the affiliation has ended Bendigo get thumped week in week out so even less people are interested. Overall he says the whole experience has hurt the club. I can only assume the same can be said for Coburg as they also are no good. Frankston another of the 5 clubs also hasn't won a game this season so I don't think it's working out well for them.

Port Melbourne are a strong club and have done very well over the years and also this year are 2nd, they have never been affiliated with an AFL club and this clearly has benefitted them as they won a few flags a few years back.

Williamstown used to be affiliated with the Bulldogs but are now going solo and are a mid table team. Andrew Collins coaches them.

Crowds except for Port Melbourne are not great!

Port Melbourne has plenty of $$$ also their ground gets used for minor finals and the state matches...

Tipper - Bohdan is a lying ****( as is Greg Edwards) and well past his use by date. They sold the NAFC out with the yes vote to the Crows model and despite assurances that the Port model would be the same, sold the NAFC and the SANFL out on that as well. My comments also apply to the other sell out Presidents.

Now we have the farcical situation in which a comp with just 10 teams has 3 different sets of rules in terms of playing conditions. I am not an expert on all sport worldwide but consider myself well versed and researched and I cannot find at a high level any other sporting comp that has a similar farcical set up as the SANFL? Really surprised that Whicker and co. haven't used this as a unique selling point?

Anyhow the NAFC have lost my 7 family members for good. Lucky the pokies are more of a priority than members at Prospect given the contempt the Board and Management have for their member / supporter base.

Panther Pack wrote:

bennymacca wrote:Are there any Victorians on here that can share first hand experience of how it works in the VFL? There are still some clubs with no afl affiliation correct? As a rule how do they go with regards to support, crowds, success?

The VFL has turned into a joke currently there are 5 clubs without any affiliation to an AFL club however Bendigo and Coburg both used to have affiliations but have now split. both of these clubs are now at the bottom of the ladder and are the AFL's whipping boys. Speaking to my brother who lives in Bendigo a lot of supporters were originally against the affiliation with Essendon and now that the affiliation has ended Bendigo get thumped week in week out so even less people are interested. Overall he says the whole experience has hurt the club. I can only assume the same can be said for Coburg as they also are no good. Frankston another of the 5 clubs also hasn't won a game this season so I don't think it's working out well for them.

Port Melbourne are a strong club and have done very well over the years and also this year are 2nd, they have never been affiliated with an AFL club and this clearly has benefitted them as they won a few flags a few years back.

Williamstown used to be affiliated with the Bulldogs but are now going solo and are a mid table team. Andrew Collins coaches them.

Crowds except for Port Melbourne are not great!

Bendigo and Coburg were bottom before the affiliation with Essendon and Richmond respectively so nothing has changed for them. So to say the affiliations have hurt them isn't really true.

Booney wrote:

cracka wrote:

Wedgie wrote:Safooty.net got a mention on the MMM Rush Hour tonight thanks to this issue. Good work Andrew whoever you are!

No worries. Bit disappointed by Roo tho who said the forum was mainly negative towards everything. Also wanted to say about players not necessarily up to SANFL standard getting games for the crows but didn't get the chance.

If you were to take just a fleeting glance that would be the impression you would get.

Totally agree with this.

That's why you should always read everything very carefully, analysing the Pro's and Con's before making a judgement call that might reflect on you at a later date. And not simply go with a distorted impression of what you believe to be reality that in fact turns out to be completely false.

Good point Booney

mal wrote:This is from a dead set one eyed Port supPORTer

Mal I got to face 6 deliveries from you in my cricket career
I could only score a single in 6 balls

Booney
I'm kicking myself over that 1 run inside edge
You have had bragging rights ever since
A low light of my career

Aerie wrote:There is so much done to equalise sporting competitions throughout the world (drug testing, salary cap, drafts, handicaps) and what has happened to the SANFL is going the polar opposite to this. No matter which way you look at it, the introduction of two AFL Reserves teams is not fair.

There are positives and negatives and those who see a fair, even competition, as the number one consideration are rightly bemused by what has happened.

From an AFL viewpoint, the consideration of an even, fair competition is outweighed by the need for developing players and for them, currently at least, the best option is to do this in their own backyard both in terms of value for money and strength of competition. They will tell themselves that there is increased exposure to the SANFL. Dittmar said it's been great, then when asked if he'd been to an SANFL game this season, said "no, but have enjoyed watching some games on tv, especially the Clare game".

I am not convinced that the increased exposure to the SANFL via commercial TV is even close to benefiting my club enough to outweigh the negatives that come with the new format. There is no more coverage of my SANFL club than there was before. In fact, I would say there is less. I guess we'd have to wait to see the finances from this years Annual Reports to really know.

There are other ways, including having a weekly SANFL game at Adelaide Oval, that would give the competition prestige and generate interest. The use of social media and the web is more important than paying $1,000,000 to have the game shown on Ch7 - which is essentially the only benefit the AFL clubs have bought (via sponsorship) to the competition.

The Eagles vs Sturt game at Unley Oval, with a crowd of 4000, which was directly up against both Crows and Power games on the same day told me that there is enough interest in the SANFL for it to be viable without the "assistance" of AFL clubs.

What is desperately needed is the SANFL administration to apply the spirit in which 5RPH and LifeFM have to the competition to generate interest and use the capital they should have to make it high quality for the current HD generation.

I think the SANFL would be best to cut ties with Port and the Crows at the end of the season. If Port Magpies win the SANFL premiership this year, it will be an absolute disgrace.

There are other ways to keep relevance for a younger generation of footballers and an alignment between the AFL and SANFL and that is to supply Port and Crows with top up players via Under 20's to use in whatever competition they could go to (preferably AFL Reserves or at least VFL). I believe this could apply nationally with alignment of elite Under 18 sides to all AFL and State League clubs, but that is another matter. Keep Junior Football, Development/Reserves Football and State League Football - which can all still be feeders to the AFL - separate.

For now, I reckon the SANFL bite the bullet and go it alone. The mainstream media, who all seem to be official ambassadors for the Crows (http://www.afc.com.au/the-club/information/ambassadors), will give the SANFL hell, but I'm not convinced it is the mainstream media who will ensure the SANFL survives and prospers anyway.

The SANFL will never be the number one show in town, but it has a niche, and I'd love to see the SANFL and its clubs make every post a winner NOW, while there is still strong enough links to SANFL clubs for the majority of families in South Australia.

Sensational post. Rational, reasoned and not a whinge in site
Well done

Panther Pack wrote:

bennymacca wrote:Are there any Victorians on here that can share first hand experience of how it works in the VFL? There are still some clubs with no afl affiliation correct? As a rule how do they go with regards to support, crowds, success?

The VFL has turned into a joke currently there are 5 clubs without any affiliation to an AFL club however Bendigo and Coburg both used to have affiliations but have now split. both of these clubs are now at the bottom of the ladder and are the AFL's whipping boys. Speaking to my brother who lives in Bendigo a lot of supporters were originally against the affiliation with Essendon and now that the affiliation has ended Bendigo get thumped week in week out so even less people are interested. Overall he says the whole experience has hurt the club. I can only assume the same can be said for Coburg as they also are no good. Frankston another of the 5 clubs also hasn't won a game this season so I don't think it's working out well for them.

Port Melbourne are a strong club and have done very well over the years and also this year are 2nd, they have never been affiliated with an AFL club and this clearly has benefitted them as they won a few flags a few years back.

Williamstown used to be affiliated with the Bulldogs but are now going solo and are a mid table team. Andrew Collins coaches them.

Crowds except for Port Melbourne are not great!

Port Melbourne were affiliated with the Swans first and then the Roos. Have been a stand alone club since 2006.
Only 1 VFL Premiership has been won by a non AFL aligned side since the AFL took over in 2000 and that was by Port

As for VFL crowds, last years Grand Final drew 14,000 people and that was the largest GF attendance since the AFL merger in 2000. The GF last year was Geelongs Ressies v Hawthorn's Ressies and thats all the support they could drum up

Mr Beefy wrote:

Panther Pack wrote:

bennymacca wrote:Are there any Victorians on here that can share first hand experience of how it works in the VFL? There are still some clubs with no afl affiliation correct? As a rule how do they go with regards to support, crowds, success?

The VFL has turned into a joke currently there are 5 clubs without any affiliation to an AFL club however Bendigo and Coburg both used to have affiliations but have now split. both of these clubs are now at the bottom of the ladder and are the AFL's whipping boys. Speaking to my brother who lives in Bendigo a lot of supporters were originally against the affiliation with Essendon and now that the affiliation has ended Bendigo get thumped week in week out so even less people are interested. Overall he says the whole experience has hurt the club. I can only assume the same can be said for Coburg as they also are no good. Frankston another of the 5 clubs also hasn't won a game this season so I don't think it's working out well for them.

Port Melbourne are a strong club and have done very well over the years and also this year are 2nd, they have never been affiliated with an AFL club and this clearly has benefitted them as they won a few flags a few years back.

Williamstown used to be affiliated with the Bulldogs but are now going solo and are a mid table team. Andrew Collins coaches them.

Crowds except for Port Melbourne are not great!

Bendigo and Coburg were bottom before the affiliation with Essendon and Richmond respectively so nothing has changed for them. So to say the affiliations have hurt them isn't really true.

Didn't mean in terms of success more so interest levels and identity wouldn't be surprised if these clubs leave the VFL.

Jim05 wrote:

Panther Pack wrote:

bennymacca wrote:Are there any Victorians on here that can share first hand experience of how it works in the VFL? There are still some clubs with no afl affiliation correct? As a rule how do they go with regards to support, crowds, success?

The VFL has turned into a joke currently there are 5 clubs without any affiliation to an AFL club however Bendigo and Coburg both used to have affiliations but have now split. both of these clubs are now at the bottom of the ladder and are the AFL's whipping boys. Speaking to my brother who lives in Bendigo a lot of supporters were originally against the affiliation with Essendon and now that the affiliation has ended Bendigo get thumped week in week out so even less people are interested. Overall he says the whole experience has hurt the club. I can only assume the same can be said for Coburg as they also are no good. Frankston another of the 5 clubs also hasn't won a game this season so I don't think it's working out well for them.

Port Melbourne are a strong club and have done very well over the years and also this year are 2nd, they have never been affiliated with an AFL club and this clearly has benefitted them as they won a few flags a few years back.

Williamstown used to be affiliated with the Bulldogs but are now going solo and are a mid table team. Andrew Collins coaches them.

Crowds except for Port Melbourne are not great!

Port Melbourne were affiliated with the Swans first and then the Roos. Have been a stand alone club since 2006.
Only 1 VFL Premiership has been won by a non AFL aligned side since the AFL took over in 2000 and that was by Port

Didn't know about Port's affiliation cheers. That stat about flags and affiliations pretty much sums up where the VFL is at no wonder crowds have dropped off.

Do all of the VFL clubs have reserves teams? i guess they would. Do they have underage teams though? It doesnt seem like they would given the TAC cup.

Seems like a whole rethink of the structure would be great. Full AFL reserves and U18 comp could make a lot of sense.

I know its what everyone has been saying, but i thought it was worth restating that point.

bennymacca wrote:Do all of the VFL clubs have reserves teams? i guess they would. Do they have underage teams though? It doesnt seem like they would given the TAC cup.

Seems like a whole rethink of the structure would be great. Full AFL reserves and U18 comp could make a lot of sense.

I know its what everyone has been saying, but i thought it was worth restating that point.

I think I heard North Ballarat don't have a reserves team there reserves play in the Ballarat league.

Great post Aerie, sadly even if they reverse the decision at the end of the year and the AFL teams piss off the damage has been done, people like myself and others have found other ways to spend our time and $.

Panther Pack wrote:

bennymacca wrote:Do all of the VFL clubs have reserves teams? i guess they would. Do they have underage teams though? It doesnt seem like they would given the TAC cup.

Seems like a whole rethink of the structure would be great. Full AFL reserves and U18 comp could make a lot of sense.

I know its what everyone has been saying, but i thought it was worth restating that point.

I think I heard North Ballarat don't have a reserves team there reserves play in the Ballarat league.

16 teams in the VFL 'League' competition.

Reserves is called the VFL development league and only 9 sides play there.

Northern Blues (Carlton in Preston clothing), Williamstown, Port Melbourne, Box Hill (Hawthorn), Sandringham, Werribee (half of North Melbourne play in their League side), Frankston, Casey and Coburg

Dutchy wrote:Great post Aerie, sadly even if they reverse the decision at the end of the year and the AFL teams piss off the damage has been done, people like myself and others have found other ways to spend our time and $.

No chance the decision will be reversed

Got a mate living in Melbourne, expat South Aussie and Centrals supporter. He's just got a membership with Coburg (which cost stuff all and they gave him a discount as he's joined part way through the season). Anyway, he was talking to the bloke that took his money about the host club arrangement and why Coburg has decided to go it alone. He said that they were stuffed around by Richmond and the players/officials never came back to the club and ignored invitations to their functions etc.
It's a crap system in Vic but that the VFL was the VAFL they're probably not quite as affected as the clubs are in the SANFL. I've said it before, the SANFL, WAFL and Tasmanian footy public have been made to give up more than anyone for this bastardised national comp. now to be expected to ignore the elephant in the room which is the salary cap and lack of scrutiny as to how top up players are paid, as a couple of examples, is the next big kick in the guts and the biggest for quite some time. That it's come from Port and Adelaide is a twist of the knife.

easier to put toothpaste back in the tube than to reverse the decision ...

Long winded but there's similar issues in English Soccer.

"Former Leeds United and England defender Tony Dorigo has joined in criticism of the Football Association’s plans for Premier League B teams, warning of unfair consequences for clubs lower down the English pyramid.
Dorigo said the proposal by an FA commission to accommodate reserve sides from top-flight clubs in a new division between League Two and the Conference was a “threat to the game’s traditions” and a scenario in which “small clubs pay for mistakes at the top.”
Last week, a panel led by FA chairman Greg Dyke announced a range of ideas for restructuring English football and improving the performance of the national squad.
The introductions of B teams – a feature of professional football in other European counties – was one of a number of recommendations which also included tighter enforcement of work-permit rules for non-EU players and a rethink of the English loan system.
Dyke warned that England faced a “bleak future” without radical and sweeping change.
But the prospect of a ‘League Three’ created for the purpose of providing second-string Premier League line-ups with competitive games against established teams has been roundly derided and Dorigo said lower-league sides would potentially be marginalized as a result of the swell of foreign players in the Premier League.
The 48-year-old, who won nine England caps during his years with Leeds, said: “I can’t deny that the game needs to change but the problem isn’t with the lower leagues. It’s with the failure of English football over many years to pay attention to the number of foreign players we’ve got in the Premier League.
“Basically, it’s gone too far and it’s been allowed to go to far. It should have been tackled at the top a long time ago. Something drastic needs to happen but B teams are a threat to the game’s traditions and fabric. Proper, lower-league football has always been part of the fabric in England. That shouldn’t change.
“Putting B teams into the lower divisions is like making the small clubs pay for big mistakes at the top. They can’t be the casualties in this.
“And if I was a Premier League manager, would I want my best kids playing in League Three anyway? I don’t think so. I’d want to loan them out to the Championship – and that avenue is already there.”
The FA commission, a group which included former Leeds manager Howard Wilkinson and ex-United full-back Danny Mills, was convened with the specific remit to find ways to improve the standard of players on offer to the England manager.
Dorigo was part of England’s World Cup squad in 1990, the last time the national side reached the semi-finals of that tournament, but he said attempts to improve international results should not neglect clubs below the Premier League or the Championship.
The FA commission is proposing that B teams be eligible for promotion and relegation but should not be allowed to climb above League One.
“Nobody wants to lose out in these scenarios and inevitably someone has to,” Dorigo said. “The national team is falling short and we all know it. But I think this comes down to priorities.
“If your main interest is the national team then you’ll probably support these plans.
“If you support a lower league club and that’s where your heart is, you’re not going to welcome B teams or anything like that. A lot of people live for club football.
“Basically, we’re behind the curve. Countries like Spain have kept a lid on foreign players while in England they’ve done nothing.
“That’s a problem, definitely, but it shouldn’t be solved at a cost to teams with years and years of history.”"

Great article, actually pretty relevant too

Won't get through, the smaller clubs have balls over there