R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby whufc » Tue May 11, 2021 7:33 am

bulldogproud wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Centrals u18's haven't played finals in the last 10 years, surely that has to be a huge part of the solution

Image


True, a fair proportion of your club's success at junior level depends upon zoning. It is no coincidence that the clubs in the lowest socio-economic areas (South and Central) have the lowest rate of success over the past 10 years. With families struggling financially, more pressure is put on teenagers to gain part-time employment to assist the family's income. This restricts their ability to play sport at any serious level.
South's fortunes began to improve when, in the 2014 rezoning, they gained considerable parts of Glenelg's old territory.
The loss of parts of Salisbury, Parafield and Para Hills from the Central District zone in this and previous rezonings really hit Central. Central were an extremely successful club in underage football prior to this. In fact, Central won 12 premierships at underage level between 1966 and 2004. Since this time, there has also been a large increase in the proportion of teenagers spending significant hours in part-time work. This, coupled with the loss of theses areas, has greatly impacted upon Central's success in underage football.
Cheers


Yeah agree about our junior program being a major part of our issue. I think of the premiership decade and you roll names off the tongue that were from our zones primarily the Barossa but also the northern burbs like:

Thomas ,Dutschke, Slade, McKenzie, Healy, O'Hara, Currie, Sibenaler, Cochrane x 2, Steinberner, Graham, Havelberg, Sansbury , Switala, Nash,Giles,Hurn, McCabe, Symes, Obst, Westoff x 2, Dew. You could then roll off another 15-20 names who were locals that played in multiple reserves grandfinals.

Having that core really gave us the ability to pin point interstate recruits, we also were able to identify one to two players a year from opposition clubs that would suit our needs such as Boyd, Slattery, Jenner.

I think the other big factor is we have lost the ability to find players suitable employment. Not sure why or how this happened but this seems to be a common theme in players we have lost to other clubs......otherwise its just an excuse being rolled out but I believe it to be somewhat true. I can completely understand it may be hard for our club to find work but I would love to know what the club have done in this space to try and improve. From the outside it appears they haven't done much at all......this could be wrong but it is how it appears especially when considering a club like the Eagles have partnered with an employment agency.

Interestingly out of the list of players I named I believe 7 of them were school teachers, did we have a connection within the uni's or schools we now don't have. I know a lot of those teachers were at a combination of Craigmore High, Fremont High and St Thomas More High.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby Dutchy » Tue May 11, 2021 8:53 am

bulldogproud wrote:
True, a fair proportion of your club's success at junior level depends upon zoning. It is no coincidence that the clubs in the lowest socio-economic areas (South and Central) have the lowest rate of success over the past 10 years. With families struggling financially, more pressure is put on teenagers to gain part-time employment to assist the family's income. This restricts their ability to play sport at any serious level.
South's fortunes began to improve when, in the 2014 rezoning, they gained considerable parts of Glenelg's old territory.
The loss of parts of Salisbury, Parafield and Para Hills from the Central District zone in this and previous rezonings really hit Central. Central were an extremely successful club in underage football prior to this. In fact, Central won 12 premierships at underage level between 1966 and 2004. Since this time, there has also been a large increase in the proportion of teenagers spending significant hours in part-time work. This, coupled with the loss of theses areas, has greatly impacted upon Central's success in underage football.
Cheers


Sounds like excuses, not reasons, both Centrals and South have the huge advantage of having their country zones right next to their metro zone, this should result in waves of juniors coming through their system, if the club gets it right.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby whufc » Tue May 11, 2021 9:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
bulldogproud wrote:
True, a fair proportion of your club's success at junior level depends upon zoning. It is no coincidence that the clubs in the lowest socio-economic areas (South and Central) have the lowest rate of success over the past 10 years. With families struggling financially, more pressure is put on teenagers to gain part-time employment to assist the family's income. This restricts their ability to play sport at any serious level.
South's fortunes began to improve when, in the 2014 rezoning, they gained considerable parts of Glenelg's old territory.
The loss of parts of Salisbury, Parafield and Para Hills from the Central District zone in this and previous rezonings really hit Central. Central were an extremely successful club in underage football prior to this. In fact, Central won 12 premierships at underage level between 1966 and 2004. Since this time, there has also been a large increase in the proportion of teenagers spending significant hours in part-time work. This, coupled with the loss of theses areas, has greatly impacted upon Central's success in underage football.
Cheers


Sounds like excuses, not reasons, both Centrals and South have the huge advantage of having their country zones right next to their metro zone, this should result in waves of juniors coming through their system, if the club gets it right.


Agree, I probably didn't appreciate how big an advantage the Barossa/centrals link should be until I have seen blokes living in Clare/Spalding etc trying to live life, work on the farm and then play down at Woodville.

For most of them they have a crack whilst they are at boarding school, college, uni and living in Adelaide, once uni is finished and they go back north for work they give up on the SANFL if there not a league regular. Lots of talented footballers out north who are only 22-24 years old but the required 2.5 hour travel to Woodville has seen them give up on their dream and play at their home town club.

The odd few still do the travel though such as the Crystal Brook Coombes boys who car pool to prospect 3 times a week to keep their SANFL/AFL dream alive.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby gazzamagoo » Tue May 11, 2021 10:27 am

Spargo wrote:
gazzamagoo wrote:But he didn't play for Central so they won't want him or "send him packing after a year because he wanted to change things."
don't comment when you don't know the full story.


Then tell us the full story. We’ve been hearing this for months. It’s a footy forum where opinions are made on face value.
Time to put up or shut up.

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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby Spargo » Tue May 11, 2021 10:53 am

gazzamagoo wrote:
Spargo wrote:
gazzamagoo wrote:But he didn't play for Central so they won't want him or "send him packing after a year because he wanted to change things."
don't comment when you don't know the full story.


Then tell us the full story. We’ve been hearing this for months. It’s a footy forum where opinions are made on face value.
Time to put up or shut up.

not allowed to

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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby gazzamagoo » Tue May 11, 2021 10:55 am

Spargo wrote:
gazzamagoo wrote:
Spargo wrote:
gazzamagoo wrote:But he didn't play for Central so they won't want him or "send him packing after a year because he wanted to change things."
don't comment when you don't know the full story.


Then tell us the full story. We’ve been hearing this for months. It’s a footy forum where opinions are made on face value.
Time to put up or shut up.

not allowed to

Boooo

I don't want to incur the wrath of KEG, nor do I want to be sued by Mr. Andrews.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby Booney » Tue May 11, 2021 11:06 am

Spargo wrote:
gazzamagoo wrote:But he didn't play for Central so they won't want him or "send him packing after a year because he wanted to change things."
don't comment when you don't know the full story.


Then tell us the full story. We’ve been hearing this for months. It’s a footy forum where opinions are made on face value.
Time to put up or shut up.


Not wrong.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby bulldogproud » Tue May 11, 2021 12:25 pm

whufc wrote:
bulldogproud wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Centrals u18's haven't played finals in the last 10 years, surely that has to be a huge part of the solution

Image


True, a fair proportion of your club's success at junior level depends upon zoning. It is no coincidence that the clubs in the lowest socio-economic areas (South and Central) have the lowest rate of success over the past 10 years. With families struggling financially, more pressure is put on teenagers to gain part-time employment to assist the family's income. This restricts their ability to play sport at any serious level.
South's fortunes began to improve when, in the 2014 rezoning, they gained considerable parts of Glenelg's old territory.
The loss of parts of Salisbury, Parafield and Para Hills from the Central District zone in this and previous rezonings really hit Central. Central were an extremely successful club in underage football prior to this. In fact, Central won 12 premierships at underage level between 1966 and 2004. Since this time, there has also been a large increase in the proportion of teenagers spending significant hours in part-time work. This, coupled with the loss of theses areas, has greatly impacted upon Central's success in underage football.
Cheers


Yeah agree about our junior program being a major part of our issue. I think of the premiership decade and you roll names off the tongue that were from our zones primarily the Barossa but also the northern burbs like:

Thomas ,Dutschke, Slade, McKenzie, Healy, O'Hara, Currie, Sibenaler, Cochrane x 2, Steinberner, Graham, Havelberg, Sansbury , Switala, Nash,Giles,Hurn, McCabe, Symes, Obst, Westoff x 2, Dew. You could then roll off another 15-20 names who were locals that played in multiple reserves grandfinals.

Having that core really gave us the ability to pin point interstate recruits, we also were able to identify one to two players a year from opposition clubs that would suit our needs such as Boyd, Slattery, Jenner.

I think the other big factor is we have lost the ability to find players suitable employment. Not sure why or how this happened but this seems to be a common theme in players we have lost to other clubs......otherwise its just an excuse being rolled out but I believe it to be somewhat true. I can completely understand it may be hard for our club to find work but I would love to know what the club have done in this space to try and improve. From the outside it appears they haven't done much at all......this could be wrong but it is how it appears especially when considering a club like the Eagles have partnered with an employment agency.

Interestingly out of the list of players I named I believe 7 of them were school teachers, did we have a connection within the uni's or schools we now don't have. I know a lot of those teachers were at a combination of Craigmore High, Fremont High and St Thomas More High.


Sadly, the reputation of Elizabeth doesn't help, particularly since the closure of the main employer, Holden. Even Jimmy Barnes, in his autobiography and documentary didn't help by labelling Elizabeth as a 'shithole nightmare of a place'.
Encouragingly, our Under 18s have begun to perform quite well - losing by less than a kick to West and South and then demolishing Norwood with a scoreline of 27 scoring shots to 9 (11.16 to 7.2).

Cheers
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby Jim05 » Tue May 11, 2021 12:28 pm

bulldogproud wrote:
whufc wrote:
bulldogproud wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Centrals u18's haven't played finals in the last 10 years, surely that has to be a huge part of the solution

Image


True, a fair proportion of your club's success at junior level depends upon zoning. It is no coincidence that the clubs in the lowest socio-economic areas (South and Central) have the lowest rate of success over the past 10 years. With families struggling financially, more pressure is put on teenagers to gain part-time employment to assist the family's income. This restricts their ability to play sport at any serious level.
South's fortunes began to improve when, in the 2014 rezoning, they gained considerable parts of Glenelg's old territory.
The loss of parts of Salisbury, Parafield and Para Hills from the Central District zone in this and previous rezonings really hit Central. Central were an extremely successful club in underage football prior to this. In fact, Central won 12 premierships at underage level between 1966 and 2004. Since this time, there has also been a large increase in the proportion of teenagers spending significant hours in part-time work. This, coupled with the loss of theses areas, has greatly impacted upon Central's success in underage football.
Cheers


Yeah agree about our junior program being a major part of our issue. I think of the premiership decade and you roll names off the tongue that were from our zones primarily the Barossa but also the northern burbs like:

Thomas ,Dutschke, Slade, McKenzie, Healy, O'Hara, Currie, Sibenaler, Cochrane x 2, Steinberner, Graham, Havelberg, Sansbury , Switala, Nash,Giles,Hurn, McCabe, Symes, Obst, Westoff x 2, Dew. You could then roll off another 15-20 names who were locals that played in multiple reserves grandfinals.

Having that core really gave us the ability to pin point interstate recruits, we also were able to identify one to two players a year from opposition clubs that would suit our needs such as Boyd, Slattery, Jenner.

I think the other big factor is we have lost the ability to find players suitable employment. Not sure why or how this happened but this seems to be a common theme in players we have lost to other clubs......otherwise its just an excuse being rolled out but I believe it to be somewhat true. I can completely understand it may be hard for our club to find work but I would love to know what the club have done in this space to try and improve. From the outside it appears they haven't done much at all......this could be wrong but it is how it appears especially when considering a club like the Eagles have partnered with an employment agency.

Interestingly out of the list of players I named I believe 7 of them were school teachers, did we have a connection within the uni's or schools we now don't have. I know a lot of those teachers were at a combination of Craigmore High, Fremont High and St Thomas More High.


Sadly, the reputation of Elizabeth doesn't help, particularly since the closure of the main employer, Holden. Even Jimmy Barnes, in his autobiography and documentary didn't help by labelling Elizabeth as a 'shithole nightmare of a place'.
Encouragingly, our Under 18s have begun to perform quite well - losing by less than a kick to West and South and then demolishing Norwood with a scoreline of 27 scoring shots to 9 (11.16 to 7.2).

Cheers
Was Jimmy wrong though? ;)
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby bulldogproud » Tue May 11, 2021 12:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
bulldogproud wrote:
True, a fair proportion of your club's success at junior level depends upon zoning. It is no coincidence that the clubs in the lowest socio-economic areas (South and Central) have the lowest rate of success over the past 10 years. With families struggling financially, more pressure is put on teenagers to gain part-time employment to assist the family's income. This restricts their ability to play sport at any serious level.
South's fortunes began to improve when, in the 2014 rezoning, they gained considerable parts of Glenelg's old territory.
The loss of parts of Salisbury, Parafield and Para Hills from the Central District zone in this and previous rezonings really hit Central. Central were an extremely successful club in underage football prior to this. In fact, Central won 12 premierships at underage level between 1966 and 2004. Since this time, there has also been a large increase in the proportion of teenagers spending significant hours in part-time work. This, coupled with the loss of theses areas, has greatly impacted upon Central's success in underage football.
Cheers


Sounds like excuses, not reasons, both Centrals and South have the huge advantage of having their country zones right next to their metro zone, this should result in waves of juniors coming through their system, if the club gets it right.


Point taken. As whufc (I think it was) said, we somehow need to get employers behind the club, able to provide employment to potential recruits. The salary from football under the current salary cap doesn't make it worth the drive out from the inner metro area (and even from the northern parts of the Barossa) in the eyes of many players, so we need to be able to provide them with an additional incentive. Most clubs are now seeing employment (rather than the pay for playing) as the key incentive.
Cheers
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby gazzamagoo » Tue May 11, 2021 1:42 pm

100%, every time we get an interstate player interested, someone from the club is on the phone with "so and so will sign up with us if we can get him a job as a ..................., see what you can do"
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby whufc » Tue May 11, 2021 2:26 pm

gazzamagoo wrote:100%, every time we get an interstate player interested, someone from the club is on the phone with "so and so will sign up with us if we can get him a job as a ..................., see what you can do"


I wonder what more can be done....

Do we have a partnership with an employment agency?
How do we build our network.....is it just members/club people that have their own businesses, is there a way we encourage people to be part of a CDFC employment network?
Whose role is it to find employment is that another task for Kris Grant amongst the other billion of jobs he has.....is there a structural issue.
Is there a way we can incentivise businesses who do employ players.....a shame we don't have the corporate box still. Could have looked at that as a investment in allowing business free or discounted access to that?
Surely distance cant be the only thing stopping employment given tradies work all over the place, teachers can try and get jobs in schools all over the state. Surely a lot of ex members/players who have businesses aren't just Elizabeth based.


I honestly think if we can go some way to solving the employment issue we could see a dramatic rise at the table.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby nwdfanparade » Tue May 11, 2021 10:04 pm

From the SANFL web page

Round 6 SANFL Match Review Panel
Central District’s Justin Hoskin has accepted a two-match ban with an early guilty plea for engaging in rough conduct with Norwood’s Nick Pedro at X Convenience Oval on Saturday.

Justin Hoskin (Central) – Rough Conduct (Dangerous Tackle)

Conduct: Careless

Contact: High

Impact: High.

Base Sanction: 3 Matches

Early Guilty Plea: 2 Matches (Accepted)
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby gazzamagoo » Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 pm

probably out of frustration,
he's our best player, has been for a while but gets sent forward, back, forward, filling the holes.
We all knew when he did it he'd be going on holiday.
Not what we need at all.
FFS
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby StrayDog » Wed May 12, 2021 4:22 am

nwdfanparade wrote:Had East's goal been allowed, would it have made any difference to the result of the game? Its not that the margin for the game was less than 5 points.

That the margin wasn't within a goal, for speculative reasons at least two posters (including yours truly) have already pointed out, is over simplification.

One more time, in summary, those conjectures are that It killed both the third goal on the trot, and the momentum, and that Norwood sensed the vibe and capitalised, as any good side should.

I'd suggest that the question as to it's effect on the over-all result was, and is, null and void. A view that tends, IMO, to be supported by the fact that it was supporters of other clubs that bagged the call on here in the first instance.



nwdfanparade wrote:Last season had the goal that was kicked on the siren at the end of a quarter (can't remember which quarter) not been allowed, would it have made any difference to the result of the game?

See above, rinse and repeat.

FWIW, you were the one that mentioned last year's game, seemingly to illustrate a separate point of supposed tunnel vision. A point that ultimately went blunt by simply looking at the relevant thread. Anyway, whatever, not the issue here.



nwdfanparade wrote:You can go through any game and comment over many umpire decisions that should have been different in any of the 4 quarters of a game. Would that different decision made any difference to the outcome of the game?

Agreed, a question I've asked myself many times in the past.

I'm sure the majority have historically been equally philosophical. I mean, it's not like I've ever heard complaints about one umpiring call late in a match raised years, or decades, after the whistle went. Can't speak for others, though.



nwdfanparade wrote:Had East's goal been allowed, would CD suddenly stormed home for the remainder of the quarter and Norwood run come to a standstill or would have the margin been only 6 points less?

This is essentially an expansion of your very first question, covered, so play on.
Last edited by StrayDog on Wed May 12, 2021 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby StrayDog » Wed May 12, 2021 4:22 am

nwdfanparade wrote:
Pseudo wrote:
StrayDog wrote:
nwdfanparade wrote:When are Central District Football Club going to do about their ground clock losing time? I (as a supporter not an official game time keeper) started my stop watch at the start of each quarter. By the end of each quarter the ground clock was 7 seconds slow. Its been that way for some seasons. 7 seconds may not be much but its a discrepancy that affects the players and spectators.

When are you starting your watch, at the siren or immediately after the ball hits the turf at the opening bounce? Just curious.

... and does it take 7 seconds to wind it up?


I start my stopwatch the moment the ball touches the ground when the umpire bounces the ball or when the ball leaves his hands when throwing the ball up which is the same as when the 2 official timekeepers start their stopwatches. The siren just before the the start of each quarter is just the time keepers acknowledging the umpire holding the ball up to indicate the umpire is about to start the quarter by bouncing or throwing the ball up.

My stopwatch keeps par with other ground clocks at other grounds unless the ground clock starts early or late. but no other club's ground clock loses time. its only at Xconvenience oval that the ground clock loses time.

'
Next Doggies home game do a test yourself comparing your mobile phone's stop watch (or take a stopwatch to the game) and the ground clock at the oval.

Yeah, nah. You've said it, I believe it, though I was curious to know if you understood when play actually starts. Not everybody does, which is why I asked. :)

I kind of grew out of concerning myself too much about elapsed time in the mid '90s when time-off became inclusive of more forms of stoppage and official "play" went from 25 to 20 minutes. These days a rough idea of the elapsed minutes is good enough for me whether I'm at a ground or enjoying the game from afar.

Sure, there has historically been the odd complaint about the old analogue clocks, but we're talking about things obviously and consistently outside that sort of incremental accuracy. (Hint:- Much bigger that an eighth of a minute.) I'd suggest if the outer clocks were official, and not just a guide for us mug punters as they've always been, then more might worry about accuracy as much as the time-keepers need to.

Unlike those occasional single umpiring calls which do happen have an immediate impact on the scoreboard, even if no-where else, a few seconds of inaccuracy on an unofficial display is probably unlikely to be much of a talking point for, or have much of an effect on, most "players and spectators."

Not me anyway, let alone twice in two matches out here. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I've been in the minority.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby StrayDog » Wed May 12, 2021 4:49 am

gazzamagoo wrote:probably out of frustration,
he's our best player, has been for a while but gets sent forward, back, forward, filling the holes.
We all knew when he did it he'd be going on holiday.
Not what we need at all.
FFS

Yep. Can't argue with any of that, or the suspension.

BTW, I noticed that your shoulder angel is back on the job, so congrats.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby southernbulldog » Wed May 12, 2021 9:36 am

Thats why Hosko is our best player but he shouldnt have to cover multiple roles shows a lack of depth or lack of confidence in the players to get the job done .Hes the one player that can kick goals for us on a regular basis he is a great kick and yet we use him across half back.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby wild dog » Thu May 13, 2021 2:56 pm

Adjacent country zone cant make up for the issues the major metro catchment is facing. Call the reasons what you want, but without any acknowledgement, comments on the matter such as "excuses" are just petty snipes. You cant compare the massive advantage some metro clubs have to Centrals zone. There is no comparison with junior clubs such as Smosh, Payneham, Unley, Glenunga, PHOS, MItcham, Goodwood, Henley etc.. with not only money, numbers and resources, but the main issue is just the social adhesion they enjoy.

Half of Glenunga footy club (which has over 800 juniors all paying $300 plus subs not to mention weekly takings over the bar) attend the Adelaide elite schools, all with their own footy program. A junior club easily taking a lazy half a mill each year, bursting at the seams with volunteers, ex AFL players etc... Good on them, they are well run and are very inviting places to belong to, I personally love a beer and a chat at the club and have coached etc.. but the challenges that Centrals is facing in its metro zone have to be acknowledged without being called an excuse.
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Re: R6 Centrals v Norwood Saturday 3.05 PM

Postby wild dog » Thu May 13, 2021 3:48 pm

Need to add I just remembered that Golden Grove was included within our metro zone a few years back and when I visited a couple of weeks ago on a Friday night, it was a hive of activity with stacks of kids and supporters. A good club.
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:56 am
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Grassroots Team: Smithfield

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