SA Footy

Whilst looking in the 1919/20 SA Footballer magazine at the library today for Reserves scores (with little luck), I can across an interesting detail.
There was a list of Magarey Medal winners from 1901, and in 1904 it had Tom Mackenzie (at West Torrens) as the winner of the 1904 Magarey Medal. Surely someone has saw this during the many hours of research of the winner of this year? He won it in 1905 and 1906, but I don't recall his name in it three times in a row. Perhaps a misprint?

Definitely a misprint. I've researched the 1904 season and there is no mention of it. Also none in the preview of the 1905 season.In every other season (except 1900 obviously ) it get's pretty good coverage.
On top of that John Wood spent HOURS looking into this when writing the book "SA Greats", and using every source at his disposal found no mention at all.

I keep thinking that there is a whole stash of papers somewhere in a building or someones shed that has a lot of past info that either they don't know they have or don't think it's important.

spell_check wrote:I keep thinking that there is a whole stash of papers somewhere in a building or someones shed that has a lot of past info that either they don't know they have or don't think it's important.

This is just it though Spelly. Back then, the Magarey Medal was no big thing, and often the winner didn't even know what it was when they were told they'd won it. Maybe they did have a 1904 medallist, but I honestly believe they just never got around to awarding one.

I think this is a good time to bring this to the History Forum, it has been that elusive bit of info that various historians has failed to find over the years. Here is a quote from 1947:

(1/8/47) In the official list of Magarey Medal winners published each season by the SANFL, names are missing opposite the years 1900 and 1904. The secretary of the League (Mr T.S Hill) has spent a great deal of time in research, but has been unable to discover any proof of the men who won in those years.
Writing from Moora (WA), Phil Sandland, who, at the age of 18, was the youngest player ever to win the medal (1901), believes that A.Green (Norwood) who won the first medal in 1898, won again in 1900. Green is also a popular choice among football followers of that time, but nothing tangible has been offered to substantiate those beliefs.
The year 1904 draws a complete blank.

Interesting theory but considering Green wasn't playing football in 1900 it doesn't stand up. As I understand it Green was unable to play for Norwood under the electorate system which had become compulsory in 1899, and apparently he didn't want to move residence either.

spell_check wrote:I keep thinking that there is a whole stash of papers somewhere in a building or someones shed that has a lot of past info that either they don't know they have or don't think it's important.

We can keep hoping Spelly.

Leaping Lindner wrote:Interesting theory but considering Green wasn't playing football in 1900 it doesn't stand up. As I understand it Green was unable to play for Norwood under the electorate system which had become compulsory in 1899, and apparently he didn't want to move residence either.

I'm not sure how Sandland would have known that because as I understand it he was one player who, when told he had won the award, didn't know what it was. I may have that story incorrect, no doubt LL will tell me.

Maybe some confusion came about because although he won the award in 1898, he was in Perth playing cricket for South Australia when the award was announced, so he was never actually presented wit hthe Medal until 10 April 1899.

As LL said, he was lost to football at the end of the 1898 season because of the newly introduced electorate system. Although he was happy to play cricket for Sturt, he didn't want to play football for them, so he retired. Norwood lost 10 players to the electorate system. Green remained a close association wit hthe club offering financial support. Apparently Green was a "man of means".

The Norwood Football Club still has Alby Green's 1898 medal, but he definitely did not win the 1900 medal, so it remains a mystery.

Leaping Lindner wrote:

spell_check wrote:I keep thinking that there is a whole stash of papers somewhere in a building or someones shed that has a lot of past info that either they don't know they have or don't think it's important.

We can keep hoping Spelly.

Exactly. I'm actually interested as to what year did people actually realise there was no real record of Medals awarded in those years? Obivously it was before 1947 (as seen above).

There is a letter to the editor published in the early 1920's from Tom MacKenzie in which he confirms that he only won 3 Magarey Medals. I can't remember if I wrote down the exact date of the item when I noticed it some time ago.

Reddeer wrote:There is a letter to the editor published in the early 1920's from Tom MacKenzie in which he confirms that he only won 3 Magarey Medals. I can't remember if I wrote down the exact date of the item when I noticed it some time ago.

Are you saying it was in reply to questions about the unknown medallists back in the early 20s?

Reddeer wrote:There is a letter to the editor published in the early 1920's from Tom MacKenzie in which he confirms that he only won 3 Magarey Medals. I can't remember if I wrote down the exact date of the item when I noticed it some time ago.

This rings a bell with me as well.

spell_check wrote:

Leaping Lindner wrote:

spell_check wrote:I keep thinking that there is a whole stash of papers somewhere in a building or someones shed that has a lot of past info that either they don't know they have or don't think it's important.

We can keep hoping Spelly.

Exactly. I'm actually interested as to what year did people actually realise there was no real record of Medals awarded in those years? Obivously it was before 1947 (as seen above).

Somewhere in the "archives" I have an article from the Register confirming Dan Morierty's medal win in 1920. The article also lists all previous winners (admittedly not with years though) and there were no names out of the ordinary.

I guess the only real problem if there really wasn't a medal in each years, is to exactly why there wasn't.

Adelaide Hawk wrote:

Leaping Lindner wrote:Interesting theory but considering Green wasn't playing football in 1900 it doesn't stand up. As I understand it Green was unable to play for Norwood under the electorate system which had become compulsory in 1899, and apparently he didn't want to move residence either.

I'm not sure how Sandland would have known that because as I understand it he was one player who, when told he had won the award, didn't know what it was. I may have that story incorrect, no doubt LL will tell me.

Maybe some confusion came about because although he won the award in 1898, he was in Perth playing cricket for South Australia when the award was announced, so he was never actually presented wit hthe Medal until 10 April 1899.

As LL said, he was lost to football at the end of the 1898 season because of the newly introduced electorate system. Although he was happy to play cricket for Sturt, he didn't want to play football for them, so he retired. Norwood lost 10 players to the electorate system. Green remained a close association wit hthe club offering financial support. Apparently Green was a "man of means".

The Norwood Football Club still has Alby Green's 1898 medal, but he definitely did not win the 1900 medal, so it remains a mystery.

Legend has it he was standing on Beehive corner when informed on the win and had no idea what the person was talking about.
That being said however his win did rate coverage in the dailies and Phil himself ended up getting a letter from the SAFA inviting him to collect his medal - which as I understand North still have.

BTW Hawk it wouldn't have been Sturt that Green didn't want to play for (Sturt began in 1901). I wonder who it was??

spell_check wrote:I guess the only real problem if there really wasn't a medal in each years, is to exactly why there wasn't.

There is a couple of theories. How much you can read in this I don't know. Apparently Magarey himself was overseas in 1900 and "forgot" to make arrangements for the award before leaving.
In 1904 the SAFA and SACA were at war over the use of the Adelaide Oval. This is why Jubilee Oval was used so much in 1904. Why that would affect the MM I don't know? But it's one reason I've heard.

Leaping Lindner wrote:BTW Hawk it wouldn't have been Sturt that Green didn't want to play for (Sturt began in 1901). I wonder who it was??

I wish you wouldn't ask tricky questions LL

You know, that is a very good point, I never considered that before. My point of reference is Mike Coward's Men of Norwood where he made the point Green didn't wish to play for Sturt so I took it as read.

My first thought was maybe he wasn't forced to transfer to Sturt until 1901, in which case he could have won the Magarey Medal in 1900 as Spelly claims.

But then I turned to my "bible", Eighty Years of Football", a record of extracts from Norwood Annual Reports from 1878 to 1961. In the 1899 season they recorded that they lost Alby Green. Other players lost to the club that year were AD Thomson, N Mitchell, R Correll, H Faull, JD Daly, A Daly, P Fitzpatrick, WB Reed and J Way.

I just wonder if Sturt were playing a junior league (e.g. Woodville & Central District 1959 to 1963) and therefore Green was tied to Sturt in 1899 even though they weren't in the league competition.

Leaping Lindner wrote:

spell_check wrote:I guess the only real problem if there really wasn't a medal in each years, is to exactly why there wasn't.

There is a couple of theories. How much you can read in this I don't know. Apparently Magarey himself was overseas in 1900 and "forgot" to make arrangements for the award before leaving.
In 1904 the SAFA and SACA were at war over the use of the Adelaide Oval. This is why Jubilee Oval was used so much in 1904. Why that would affect the MM I don't know? But it's one reason I've heard.

I read somewhere (probably John Woods book) a theory that a Norwood player won it in that year, and the SAFA decided not to award it when Norwood broke the boycott and played Carlton at Adelaide Oval after the season finished. When the Medal was presented to a player at the time, I'm not sure.

Adelaide Hawk wrote:I just wonder if Sturt were playing a junior league (e.g. Woodville & Central District 1959 to 1963) and therefore Green was tied to Sturt in 1899 even though they weren't in the league competition.

They were formed by the cricket club in early 1901 so that would be impossible.

smithy wrote:

Adelaide Hawk wrote:I just wonder if Sturt were playing a junior league (e.g. Woodville & Central District 1959 to 1963) and therefore Green was tied to Sturt in 1899 even though they weren't in the league competition.

They were formed by the cricket club in early 1901 so that would be impossible.

Then it looks as though Mike Coward got it wrong. I'm going to need to look into this. Thanks.