Federal Government proposes a price on carbon.

[Dutchy]

Well Dutchy, if she had won government in her own right, she would have gone straight to an emissions trading scheme, which she made clear was her policy.

There was just the small fact that to form government, whoever persuaded the independents and The Greens to back them would have had to compromise.

If Tony Abbott had persuaded them, do you think he would have had to compromise on his policies?

If not, why not?

Are you also saying that in the history of Australian politics, she's the only politician to break an election promise



"JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term as part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

"I don't rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism," she said of the next parliament. "I rule out a carbon tax."

This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing."

The difference is that she had to compromise, as Tony Abbott would also have to have done.

Again, stop turning it into what the Libs would have done, they didnt win the election so its all speculation.

Im interested in what the current Government HAS done....clearly misled the people that voted her in.

How can you lose so much support in 12 months?

[Dutchy]

She's a politician ... what's your point?

not hard to work out if you read my posts

[redandblack]

I'll look forward to you only ever talking about one team in any football matches to come.

Why on earth shouldn't the Opposition be scrutinised for lies?

As for calling for an unconstitutional early election, the Liberals have form in not accepting election results.

[Q.]

Why on earth shouldn't the Opposition be scrutinised for lies?

They are:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/facts-assail-abbotts-chicken-little-act-20110712-1hcdo.html

[dedja]

*cough* born to rulers *cough*

[redandblack]

Why on earth shouldn't the Opposition be scrutinised for lies?

They are:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/facts-assail-abbotts-chicken-little-act-20110712-1hcdo.html

What a good read, Q.

[Squawk]

Unless you were a fly on the wall inside the Cabinet Room, then there is no way of knowing whether Labor drafted its own package from the draft submitted by the Greens; or if in fact they specifically drafted a package to make Abbott's sweeping predictions look silly. I'm guessing a bit of both, but I think he probably gets some credit for frightening the horses to such an extent that comfort measures were installed into the final product.

[Squawk]

Your spot on I don’t understand the carbon tax but then I don’t even think out PM understands it herself so how the hell am I going to!

What I do understand is that this tax is on the pollution/carbon each and every person on this planet contributes to so why is only about 10% of the tax paying population of Australia expected to pay for it. I am lucky enough to be in that so called “rich” 10% but my wife and I have worked very hard for many years to get where we are at today and I am more than happy to pay more tax to help the environment but it’s not only the rich that have and continue to stuff up this planet up yet we are the ones having to pay for it.

Approximately 35% of the average Australian household’s carbon omissions come from driving a car so why has petrol been exempt from this carbon tax? If they are serious about cutting carbon why not put the tax on petrol and offer a rebate if you have a hybrid or other form of low omissions car. Maybe even electric cars but I guess oil companies contribute to much money to politics for that to ever happen. I don’t understand how a low income family with a late model V8 car not have to pay carbon tax but I have a low omission car and I do have to pay the tax. I think I already pay more than my share of taxes.
If carbon omissions and the environment is the real issue here why collect a carbon tax from everyone and then give it back to 90% of them. Any chance that the politicians and government departments could start driving hybrid cars or even car pool. Maybe catch a bus to parliament house?

I wonder what peoples reaction would be if the carbon tax was as simple as putting the GST up 2%. Wouldn’t that be a much fairer way to raise money for the environment?

[Squawk]

Also, a (traditionally) reliably informed person advised me today that apparently the Federal Government has increased the excise on gas. Can anyone confirm this? If that is true, why would they do that when gas is the cleanest form of energy production (against coal/oil energy production, but obviously not solar, wind etc)? In other words, they are going to tender to close down 2,000MW of dirty power yet they have increaded the costs associated with gas power?

LPG Gas has a new excise effective as at 1 July this year, of 2.5 cents per litre rising to 12.5 cents per litre by 2015. Removal of the excise is estimated to cost the gov $1bn from forward budgets.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2899966.htm

So "dirty" fuel in the form of petrol and diesel is exempt from a carbon tax, as is LPG. Yet this year, just a little over a week before the Carbon Tax details were announced, an excise has been slapped on the cleanest fuel we have. WTF? The Carbon Tax in this form is a poor excuse for putting a price on carbon emissions - it is being selectively applied and revenues raised are being selectively re-distributed. Th tax in its existing form is simply a political solution to a practical challenge. As Combet said at the announcement on Sunday, Ït's in the Labor tradition". A cynic might say "Greg, you just branded the Carbon Tax a Labor Tax and it was the Greens who have made us bend over and deliver sh*t".

[Dutchy]

I'll look forward to you only ever talking about one team in any football matches to come.

Why on earth shouldn't the Opposition be scrutinised for lies?

As for calling for an unconstitutional early election, the Liberals have form in not accepting election results.

Cause this is a thread about the current government and their current policies, you only want to attack the Liberals or use their past to justify labors current actions.

[redandblack]

Don't be silly.

This is a politics forum. You can't have such a forum only discussing one side of politics.

What you want is a trial with evidence only from the prosecution.

If you want evidence to support this measure, the poll of economists yesterday overwhelmingly endorsed it as being economically sound.

Sorry if I try to defend something you don't like, but if you want only one side, stick to the Murdoch press

[Dutchy]

I dont think I need to tell you anyone can start up a thread on any topic they wish

[redandblack]

Are you really suggesting that posters should always stick to exactly the subject of each thread and not discuss anything related to it at all

If so, the Moderators are going to be exceedingly busy

Or does that only apply to threads where you disagree with someone?

[Dutchy]

Just after a straight answer that is on topic, but then again your deflection is very much like a Labor politician...

[redandblack]

No, I've made no secret of the fact that obviously she has broken an election promise.

Your line is to restrict that debate totally about why that may have happened.

You also don't want to be reminded about totally relevant debate as to why that has happened and you don't want to acknowledge that politicians breaking promises isn't restricted to Julia Gillard.

As for deflection, if you think that's only relevant to Labor politicians, then I'll leave others to judge you on that issue

[Bully]

people seen fighting in front of julia when she visited my local shopping centre this week over the carbon tax. Shoppers yelling out liar and disagreeing over this ridiculos tax

[Sky Pilot]

people seen fighting in front of julia when she visited my local shopping centre this week over the carbon tax. Shoppers yelling out liar and disagreeing over this ridiculos tax

If Gillard and Labor was a corporation shareholders would be bailing out so quick you wouldn't have time to get a Royal Commission set up to investigate their operation.

[redandblack]

I watched the Questions from the press to her at the National Press Club.

I thought she was strong, human and right on top of the detail.

I'm biased, of course, so I would think that.

Miranda Devine (The Australian) never writes a good word about her, but grudgingly accepts she did well:

mirandadevine Miranda Devine
by bow_and_arrow
Quite a good speech by Julia Gillard at the NPC - shy girl to PM. Don't agree re carbon tax of course but nicely presented.

[Sky Pilot]

I watched the Questions from the press to her at the National Press Club.

I thought she was strong, human and right on top of the detail.

I'm biased, of course, so I would think that.

Miranda Devine (The Australian) never writes a good word about her, but grudgingly accepts she did well:

mirandadevine Miranda Devine
by bow_and_arrow
Quite a good speech by Julia Gillard at the NPC - shy girl to PM. Don't agree re carbon tax of course but nicely presented.

I didn't watch it RandB but I have no doubt she would have carried it off well. She is no fool and with teh resources of the PMs office behind her she is well-researched and well-rehearsed. It still doesn't mean she is a good PM. She is a complete failure and it is her alliance with the Greens that keeps bringing her undone. But then what would I know?

[southee]

I watched the Questions from the press to her at the National Press Club.

I thought she was strong, human and right on top of the detail.

I'm biased, of course, so I would think that.

Miranda Devine (The Australian) never writes a good word about her, but grudgingly accepts she did well:

mirandadevine Miranda Devine
by bow_and_arrow
Quite a good speech by Julia Gillard at the NPC - shy girl to PM. Don't agree re carbon tax of course but nicely presented.

I didn't watch it RandB but I have no doubt she would have carried it off well. She is no fool and with teh resources of the PMs office behind her she is well-researched and well-rehearsed. It still doesn't mean she is a good PM. She is a complete failure and it is her alliance with the Greens that keeps bringing her undone. But then what would I know?

..and behold we now have the tears!!!!

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-d ... 6094649448

Quite a good performance by Gillard.

David ****
Margaret ***1/2


Desparate for the sympathy vote this one