Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:26 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:
Q. wrote:And refugees do seek asylum to those countries. Are you suggesting we accept none because we're surrounded by water?


That's great that they can get to a signatory country to escape persecution.
Does that mean their next move (over 10,000 kms for some) is for economic reasons?

Plus I'm pretty sure we do accept legitimate refugees.


No, not economic refugees, the overwhelming majority are found to be genuine refugees.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:12 am

OK, they come here because it is the closest place.

Good to see that most pass the refugee test when they actually do it.
Also, good to see our procedures filter out the non-refugees.

The system seems to be working well.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:15 am

And there's no reason the processing can't be done onshore.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:42 pm

Q. wrote:And there's no reason the processing can't be done onshore.


Actually plenty of reasons, which we've been over many times including this past weekend

I'm with Benny - let's set up a processing centre in Malaysia or Indonesia.
Bet you the boats don't go there but still try to make it here.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:07 pm

Boats come regardless of where the processing is conducted.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:00 am

Q. wrote:Boats come regardless of where the processing is conducted.


Very sweeping comment there Q but you knew that. Of course they will still come but the object is to break the promises of the snakeheads which is nothing but people trafficking. A practice condoned by SHY and her ilk who either choose to ignore that problem or are just ignorant of its existence because they don't live in the real world.

I have stated what I think and agree with offshore processing and advertising in other countries that you will not be given priority if you try to land here. You will be sent to any country other than Australia and will only be admitted to Australia when you are proven a legitimate refugee by undergoing the same process as any other asylum seeker. Don't like it; too bad. You've been warned.

Nothing more disturbing than the Iranian on 4 Corners who doesn't want to wait to be processed in Indonesia and threatens everyone when turned back. They have to be properly identified and processed before 1. being granted refugee status, and 2. Allowed into this country. And I reckon I've got the vast majority of Australians agreeing with me.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:01 pm

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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:08 pm

I have wondered this for a whole.

http://gu.com/p/4vm4x
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:16 pm

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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:55 am

It makes me sick that we would willingly send someone back to Afghanistan at the moment.

http://gu.com/p/4484d
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Agreed.
One other thing that really irks me at the moment is the belief that the 'turn back the boats' policy is for humane reasons and saving lives. However, it has just meant that asylum seekers have had to seek alternative destinations. Australia has in the past had large numbers coming from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. Now, unfortunately, they are forced in many cases to travel to Europe, risking far more dangerous and longer journeys. Thus, the 'turn back the boats' policy is definitely not humane and results in more deaths of asylum seekers, not less.
However, we all know that the Australian government doesn't care about this. All they want is for them not to come to Australia, they don't care about what asylum seekers are now forced to do. With Abbott it is a case of the three wise monkeys: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby stan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:54 am

bennymacca wrote:It makes me sick that we would willingly send someone back to Afghanistan at the moment.

http://gu.com/p/4484d

Horrific situation at the moment. Horrible stories coming out about he taliban.
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby stan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:56 am

I believe Australia should help people who are genuinely refugees. No doubt about that but we also need to be careful about who comes into the country so appropriate checks are required. Still sending people back to Afghanistan to be slaughtered by the Taliban us awful. No other word for it and the turn back the boats is just some bullshit about winning votes.
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:10 am

stan wrote:I believe Australia should help people who are genuinely refugees. No doubt about that but we also need to be careful about who comes into the country so appropriate checks are required. Still sending people back to Afghanistan to be slaughtered by the Taliban us awful. No other word for it and the turn back the boats is just some bullshit about winning votes.


yep completely agree. got no issue with detention centres, as i think they are definitely required, but i think they should be in australia, and i think they should be given more resources so the processing time goes down
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby stan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:48 am

bennymacca wrote:
stan wrote:I believe Australia should help people who are genuinely refugees. No doubt about that but we also need to be careful about who comes into the country so appropriate checks are required. Still sending people back to Afghanistan to be slaughtered by the Taliban us awful. No other word for it and the turn back the boats is just some bullshit about winning votes.


yep completely agree. got no issue with detention centres, as i think they are definitely required, but i think they should be in australia, and i think they should be given more resources so the processing time goes down

Every government department could do with more resources.
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bennymacca » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:49 am

Yep, but it would cost a darn sight less to process them in Australia I would think...
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:23 pm

bulldogproud2 wrote:Agreed.
One other thing that really irks me at the moment is the belief that the 'turn back the boats' policy is for humane reasons and saving lives. However, it has just meant that asylum seekers have had to seek alternative destinations. Australia has in the past had large numbers coming from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. Now, unfortunately, they are forced in many cases to travel to Europe, risking far more dangerous and longer journeys. Thus, the 'turn back the boats' policy is definitely not humane and results in more deaths of asylum seekers, not less.
However, we all know that the Australian government doesn't care about this. All they want is for them not to come to Australia, they don't care about what asylum seekers are now forced to do. With Abbott it is a case of the three wise monkeys: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868


Welcome home bp2
Far more dangerous and longer?
I think you better look at a map. You do realise Darwin is 4.5 times the distance from Syria than Italy?
Irk you or not, the "stop the boats" policy is to counter the snakeheads promise of open entry into Australia and therefore stop people putting their lives at risk. Go to a closer country and apply for asylum and we'll fly you here when granted.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:42 am

Jimmy_041 wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:Agreed.
One other thing that really irks me at the moment is the belief that the 'turn back the boats' policy is for humane reasons and saving lives. However, it has just meant that asylum seekers have had to seek alternative destinations. Australia has in the past had large numbers coming from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. Now, unfortunately, they are forced in many cases to travel to Europe, risking far more dangerous and longer journeys. Thus, the 'turn back the boats' policy is definitely not humane and results in more deaths of asylum seekers, not less.
However, we all know that the Australian government doesn't care about this. All they want is for them not to come to Australia, they don't care about what asylum seekers are now forced to do. With Abbott it is a case of the three wise monkeys: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868


Welcome home bp2
Far more dangerous and longer?
I think you better look at a map. You do realise Darwin is 4.5 times the distance from Syria than Italy?
Irk you or not, the "stop the boats" policy is to counter the snakeheads promise of open entry into Australia and therefore stop people putting their lives at risk. Go to a closer country and apply for asylum and we'll fly you here when granted.


Hi Jimmy,
Yes, it is far more dangerous and longer as the asylum seekers are making their way from Malaysia to Europe. Australia has never had a huge intake of Syrian asylum seekers. Rather, it has been asylum seekers from Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan who have been fleeing to Malaysia and then onto Australia. So you don't care if they put their lives at risk by travelling through other far more dangerous waters as long as they do not head towards Australia?? As you can see from the numbers of deaths in the Mediterranean, far more lives are being put at risk through Australia's 'turn back the boats' policy. Unfortunately, in many closer countries, there is no opportunity to apply for asylum.
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:00 am

I do care. That's why it's best to stop them by telling them asylum is not automatically given despite what they've been told and that's exactly what the Govt is doing. Addressing the problem at the root cause
I keep asking why Australia when Europe is a third of the distance away? Lucky strike by a dart on a map? And its no holiday trying to get through Malaysia and Indonesia
And you can apply for asylum in any Australian embassy including Rome
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Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:02 am

Jimmy_041 wrote:I do care. That's why it's best to stop them by telling them asylum is not automatically given despite what they've been told and that's exactly what the Govt is doing. Addressing the problem at the root cause
I keep asking why Australia when Europe is a third of the distance away? Lucky strike by a dart on a map? And its no holiday trying to get through Malaysia and Indonesia
And you can apply for asylum in any Australian embassy including Rome


Firstly, Merry Christmas, Jimmy. Although asylum is not automatically given. nor has ever been, the vast majority of those who have come by boat to our shores have been proven to be genuine refugees (in excess of 90%). Asylum seekers are, in the vast majority, people who have a genuine fear for their safety.
As for seeking asylum from an embassy, the asylum seeker would be required to have official paperwork such as a passport. As they are fleeing persecution, it is very unlikely they would have the required paperwork. They are not in a position to apply for one as the fact they are fleeing their country is likely to result in them being killed. A government that is against people seeking asylum is hardly likely to let them leave, is it?

As for seeking to come to Australia, very few do. Australia is the destination for less than 1% of asylum seekers. Even of those, very few would select Australia if they had a choice. Here I quote from an article in The Conversation:

'National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

Among developed countries, Australia is one of the least favoured destinations for asylum seekers, its one advantage being that it offers a physically warm climate. Asylum seekers who have any choice as to their ultimate destination prefer the United States, Canada or Europe before Australia.'

As for the ability to travel to Europe, even though it may only be 1/3rd the distance from Afghanistan and Iraq, this would involve long portions of the journey by land, through countries not party to the UN Convention on Refugees, leading to greater risk of succumbing on the journey.

Let me also quote from the United Nations re asylum seekers travelling just to come to Australia:

'As for asylum seekers ‘choosing’ Australia, it is important to remember that, in the first instance, asylum seekers are running from and not to. No
one chooses to be an asylum seeker. Contrary to popular opinion, asylum seekers don’t want to come to Australia, or go anywhere else for that matter.
According to UNHCR, “the great majority of today’s refugees would themselves prefer to return home once the situation stabilises.”
Source: United Nations Development Program (UNDP), ‘Human Development Reports (2011),’ http://hdr.undp.org/en/countries/

What does turning back the boats actually achieve? Here let me quote from the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre (asrc.org.au):

'While both major political parties claim that the need to ‘stop the boats’ is driven by a concern for asylum seeker deaths at sea, this is clearly not their prime concern. If it were, Australia would be focussing its attention on ensuring asylum seekers arrive here safely, not that they cease to arrive here at all. In any case, as Professor James Hathaway argues, allegedly humanitarian steps taken to shut down escape routes for asylum seekers are not only unlawful but paternalistic. In the absence of a viable alternative, Hathaway points out that, “It is the refugee’s right – not the prerogative of any state or humanitarian agency – to decide when the risks of staying put are greater than the risks of setting sail.”

In any case, as Professor William Maley has noted, successfully deterring boat arrivals is nothing to celebrate as it will not put an end to the loss of life at sea, it will only force asylum seekers to take perilous voyages elsewhere: “What is more likely to happen is that Afghan refugees, instead of heading eastward towards Australia, will head westward, only to risk drowning in the waters of the Mediterranean Sea. Only the most cynical politician could take pleasure in such an outcome.”


Also, is it right that developing nations should be responsible for looking after the vast majority of asylum seekers and refugees as currently happens? Australia needs to play its role in showing compassion to those in need. This is even moreso when you consider that our troops fought in those countries, leading to the large numbers seeking asylum.

So what can be done? The first and greatest step should involve more cooperation with Malaysia and Indonesia. There should be moves made to process asylum seekers in Malaysia. If they are granted refugee status, then a certain proportion of them should be granted entry into Australia. This would result in less deaths, not just in Australian waters, but also the Mediterranean which is their alternate route at the moment.


This Christmas, let us pray for all those who are vulnerable and in need of our help.

Cheers
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