Latte Labor

[McAlmanac]

I am also poiticaly astute

That would be for others to judge. Self praise is no recommendation.

Howard is certainly the smartest operator around and will almost certainly win the next election, but how electable are his underlings?

[redandblack]

Some of you are dreamin or fail to face reality. the coalition will win the next two elections for three very good reasons:

1, labor will continually self destruct (shall we remember Latham, or Gough)
2. Not one person in the labor party has the smarts to match Howard.
3. Even ardent labor supporters (other than a few socialist idiots on here who post carp propagander) know that the coalition has become more the "people party"

And as a footnote. even traditional labor/union voters are concerned over definate lack of positive policy. The swinging voter is in this day and age are leaning toward the right.

I must admit, I can understand the blue collar workers being convinced that nationalism is some sort of enigma to be despised. But some of those that post on here are educated and hold responsible positions and have done well in your fields. Yet you want to go back to "the era" of gough, hawke or keating?

Rudd is running on adrenilan. But that will soon lose interest. Who else has the nouse, guts or savvy to run this country. Well it wont be Costello and it sure as hell wont be anyone present in the labot party.

I might be a right wing redneck, but I am also poiticaly astute and a realist.

No you're not, you're just an average, run of the mill, household redneck.

[Coorong]

No you're not, you're just an average, run of the mill, household redneck.[/quote]

Actually used to be very politically active. 20 years ago the Libs put me through intensive traing for a blue ribbon seat (state) but I had ambitions for Federal.

Various reasons why it did not eventuate and happy to relate the story if asked.

Lots of people prefer to keep thier politcal view secret. Was married to a woman for 23 years and still dont know how she voted. Me, I just love a political debate.

[PhilG]

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[Coorong]

I sense another "roylion" thread and as I dont want to be part of that, will decline your "offer" to participate.

[Punk Rooster]

I sense another "roylion" thread and as I dont want to be part of that, will decline your "offer" to participate.

No, that would be good!
It would end with "Sah, I say Sah! I dehmand satisfaction"...

[Rik E Boy]

I sense another "roylion" thread and as I dont want to be part of that, will decline your "offer" to participate.

The practical alternative to debate. You're a politican all right Coowrong!

regards,

REB

[PhilG]

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[mick]

The next election will be won or lost on the economy and employment, no other issues matter to those in the mortgage belts. The people who care about "touchy feely" (aborigines,detention camps, boat people etc. etc.) issues vote labor anyway. Rudd and Gillard's best chance will be the economy going bad, maybe they can win back the former labor voters who care about issues that directly affect their families Don't get too carried away Latham started off with a big jump. I heard Rudd interviewed the other day, sounded very sane and sensible, he was also very smart to distance himself from the failed philosphy of socialism.

[am Bays]

The next election will be won or lost on the economy and employment, no other issues matter to those in the mortgage belts. The people who care about "touchy feely" (aborigines,detention camps, boat people etc. etc.) issues vote labor anyway. Rudd and Gillard's best chance will be the economy going bad, maybe they can win back the former labor voters who care about issues that directly affect their families Don't get too carried away Latham started off with a big jump. I heard Rudd interviewed the other day, sounded very sane and sensible, he was also very smart to distance himself from the failed philosphy of socialism.

Spot on Mick and that is where the marginals seats are that Labor need to pick up, employment and the ecomomy will win the next election. With unemployment at 4.6 % (historically low levels) and a mortgage rate drop due in teh middle of next year, Labor's job winning those key seats will be difficult, not impossible but difficult.

[Leaping Lindner]

The next election will be won or lost on the economy and employment, no other issues matter to those in the mortgage belts. The people who care about "touchy feely" (aborigines,detention camps, boat people etc. etc.) issues vote labor anyway. Rudd and Gillard's best chance will be the economy going bad, maybe they can win back the former labor voters who care about issues that directly affect their families Don't get too carried away Latham started off with a big jump. I heard Rudd interviewed the other day, sounded very sane and sensible, he was also very smart to distance himself from the failed philosphy of socialism.

Spot on Mick and that is where the marginals seats are that Labor need to pick up, employment and the ecomomy will win the next election. With unemployment at 4.6 % (historically low levels) and a mortgage rate drop due in teh middle of next year, Labor's job winning those key seats will be difficult, not impossible but difficult.

Come on Tassie you and I both know unemployment figures are bunkum. People that work one day a fortnight being classified as employed, LTU being moved to pensions and so forth.
Would love to stay and chat but I'm off to our local cafe for a morning coffee and to read The Age!! (It's true!)

[Punk Rooster]

Come on Tassie you and I both know unemployment figures are bunkum. People that work one day a fortnight being classified as employed, LTU being moved to pensions and so forth.
Would love to stay and chat but I'm off to our local cafe for a morning coffee and to read The Age!! (It's true!)

I can vouch for that

[am Bays]

Come on Tassie you and I both know unemployment figures are bunkum. People that work one day a fortnight being classified as employed, LTU being moved to pensions and so forth.
Would love to stay and chat but I'm off to our local cafe for a morning coffee and to read The Age!! (It's true!)

LL I know that the unemployment figure each month doesn't give the full story, i.e. those actively seeking work vs those actually unemployed It also includes those who only have casual and un-paid work who earn too much to collect the dole.

So yes I readily admit the figures and the definition of unemployed (changed by the HAwke/Keating govts) doesn't give the 100% accurate figure but 4.6% unemployment is still a historically low figure that demonstrates at the minute the country's economy from an employment perspective is going well. especially when you conside that our historic unemployment figure since 1972 is about 8% and our historic interest rate figure is ~10%.

BY any stretch of the imagination the economy is performing well ATM and that is a key consideration for some people when they consider their vote each election.

[PhilG]

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[am Bays]

Bottom line - I disagree that the issue will be decided on the economy. The ALP should focus on the very issues that say they shouldn't, Mick. The trick is to focus it in such a way that people would look stupid to trust the current government with those issues AND make it look as it should look - immensely important to the social fabric of our community, which should go hand in hand with families.

(I know I shouldn't bite but)

Well Phill to an extent at the last election the ALP tried to engage the nation with a campaign based on education (those adds depicting public and private schools) and the environment. In the last week of the election Latham tried to appeal to the mainland voters regarding logging in TAsmania and it cost the ALP Bradden and Bragg before the polls had closed in the rest of the country....

So it will be a brave ALP that doesn't try to engage the aspirational voters that want to send their kids to private schools and pay of their mortgage, that live in the mortgage belt marginals that will be the 2007 election battle ground.

[mick]

The next election will be won or lost on the economy and employment, no other issues matter to those in the mortgage belts. The people who care about "touchy feely" (aborigines,detention camps, boat people etc. etc.) issues vote labor anyway. Rudd and Gillard's best chance will be the economy going bad, maybe they can win back the former labor voters who care about issues that directly affect their families Don't get too carried away Latham started off with a big jump. I heard Rudd interviewed the other day, sounded very sane and sensible, he was also very smart to distance himself from the failed philosphy of socialism.

Failed philosophy of socialism?? We need it, Mick! Capitalism is going too far - and the voters you are talking about can't see it because they aren't looking beyond their families. You seem to be talking about that as something that is just there and we have to accept it like that. To heck with that! That's the very sort of thing that promotes greed, gullibility and intolerance! I can't believe anyone with a shred of common sense would call that a good thing! I could in fact present an argument that this very attitude led indirectly to the Cronulla riots (as an example). And I'm talking about both sides of that problem BTW.

The note made about the unemployment figures is pertinent. I believe that everyone of a working age, that is not at school full time or is retired should be counted as unemployed. If those figures were kept like that since Howard came to power, I'm willing to bet the rate has gone up - not down - as people stop looking for work. Howard and his crew proudly strut their line of how many jobs have been created since 1996. But how many jobs have been LOST over the same period? Very quiet on that stat they are! And I am disappointed that the ALP haven't gone after Howard and co on that point - they should.

Bottom line - I disagree that the issue will be decided on the economy. The ALP should focus on the very issues that say they shouldn't, Mick. The trick is to focus it in such a way that people would look stupid to trust the current government with those issues AND make it look as it should look - immensely important to the social fabric of our community, which should go hand in hand with families.

I think you are overestimating the education and intelligence of a large part of the electorate. Not everyone is as educated and intelligent as you obviously are, I am a conservative politically, BUT I also think some of the issues that the ALP raise are immensely important, I doubt whether more than 20% of the electorate would agree, hence the title of this thread "latte" Labor. Labor has spent too long pandering to the educated, vocal and relatively prosperous left leaning elite. Just look at the junk that is popular on Australian TV, try explaing important issues to the people who think Big Brother is required viewing, put or take money from their pockets and you have their attention. John Howard has done a masterful job of appearing to be an ordinary bloke (loves cricket, doesn't use big words) rather than a member of an educated elite (which he clearly is!) unless the economy goes bad Howard will get back in.

[Coorong]

John Howard has done a masterful job of appearing to be an ordinary bloke (loves cricket, doesn't use big words) rather than a member of an educated elite (which he clearly is!) unless the economy goes bad Howard will get back in.[/quote]

Top point.

[McAlmanac]

I think you are overestimating the education and intelligence of a large part of the electorate. Not everyone is as educated and intelligent as you obviously are, I am a conservative politically, BUT I also think some of the issues that the ALP raise are immensely important, I doubt whether more than 20% of the electorate would agree, hence the title of this thread "latte" Labor. Labor has spent too long pandering to the educated, vocal and relatively prosperous left leaning elite. Just look at the junk that is popular on Australian TV, try explaing important issues to the people who think Big Brother is required viewing, put or take money from their pockets and you have their attention. John Howard has done a masterful job of appearing to be an ordinary bloke (loves cricket, doesn't use big words) rather than a member of an educated elite (which he clearly is!) unless the economy goes bad Howard will get back in.

My politics are different to yours, but I wholeheartedly agree with you here.

Voters generally adhere to the "What's In It For Me?" principle.

[PhilG]

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[Punk Rooster]

Speaking personally - it makes me sick to my stomach the lack of tolerance going on in this country.

It makes me sick in my stomach, that the tolerance only goes one way- if there was a mutual tolerance/respect, there might not be so many issues... (eg Cronulla Riots)