Inconsistancy

[Goldberg]

I am a very disappointed Country/Amature football follower at the moment

The points system was put into place to unify leagues with player recruitment numbers, was it not? If what we are to believe on here, the inconsistancies from league to league has the whole thing looking like a waste of time!!!! Now I'm a big advocate FOR IT, but only if its done properly.
IMO the more remote a club is, should be the ONLY REASON FOR ANY TYPE OF EXEMPTION, as they would obviously find it harder to recruit players. Perhaps base it on: a 100km radius from the clubrooms, and the population residing in that radius divided by the number of clubs in it also. If the CFB did this then allocated Max points according to this, no-one could argue!

SFL- giving more points to the lower finishing clubs, upwards of 6 extra. Are you joking me? The SFL is practically in Adelaide, and should have zero reason for any need of extra points! If they have a numbers problem, maybe they should take advice from a club like, well any country club that has a local base of PEOPLE, not just players under 100, of which there are many!

GSFL- Have given exemption to some clubs because the recruited players from the SAAFL before they came on board with the Points system. As long as this is a 1 year deal, I dont see an issue with it.

Mallee- Is giving huge exemptions to clubs, in some cases upwards of 10 extra points. This is a short sighted solution! Yes they need extra points, but you cant fix a club in 1 year. It takes solid choices over a 3-4 year period to build a good list.

Hills Div 1&2- Dont have any stagger to their system at all, with all clubs receiving 15 points regardless of previous years finishing placement. Surely its obvious that a lower team should have maximum points allocation (15 points), while the premiers have a reduced allocation as they are already very competetive. The whole point of it is to try and get even competitions.

RMFL- Have the Stagger system in place, but don't take it far enough. In recent years the difference between 3rd & 5th has been a big 1, yet they are on the same amount of points. Each place higher on the ladder, should result in 1 less point (this wont work for every league, as some have too many clubs, in which case they would have to perhaps group clubs in 2's)

Please add to this other leagues that I am unaware of how theirs work and I'm sure we will see some more variations

[Mythical Creature]

I think you will find the inconsistency is because the CFB have made all leagues adopt the APPS but have then told the leagues they can structure how each club gets points however they like. Of course every league will then be different. The only way to make it consistent is for the CFB to allocate points to each club based on the one formula throughout the state. Thats never going to happen and nor it should so we will have to learn to live with the inconsistencies.

[shoe boy]

[quote="Goldberg"]I am a very disappointed Country/Amature football follower at the moment

The points system was put into place to unify leagues with player recruitment numbers, was it not? If what we are to believe on here, the inconsistancies from league to league has the whole thing looking like a waste of time!!!! Now I'm a big advocate FOR IT, but only if its done properly.
IMO the more remote a club is, should be the ONLY REASON FOR ANY TYPE OF EXEMPTION, as they would obviously find it harder to recruit players. Perhaps base it on: a 100km radius from the clubrooms, and the population residing in that radius divided by the number of clubs in it also. If the CFB did this then allocated Max points according to this, no-one could argue!

SFL- giving more points to the lower finishing clubs, upwards of 6 extra. Are you joking me? The SFL is practically in Adelaide, and should have zero reason for any need of extra points! If they have a numbers problem, maybe they should take advice from a club like, well any country club that has a local base of PEOPLE, not just players under 100, of which there are many!

Could not agree more!!! This makes a joke of the system and ALL that are involved in the process.

[Sky Pilot]

I'm staggered by the fact that country leagues all over SA continue to survive on the system they had 100 years ago. I'm not a fan of the CFB. Its roots are in the metro despite some token country guys in the loop. Rob Kerin for instance.
The thing is if players, committee members in any given club don't like it they can cause their league delegate to raise this at meetings. In a democracy if all clubs suddenly started to pull back from this and tell the CFB to get stuffed I don't ink there's much they could do and it would die a quiet death.
I know - suspect - that the CFB waved sponsorship bucks at this but I have no details.
Perhaps you could insert one of those polling or voting things at th etop of this thread and we could all vote and this would give some idea of popular opinion

[false]

I am a very disappointed Country/Amature football follower at the moment

The points system was put into place to unify leagues with player recruitment numbers, was it not? If what we are to believe on here, the inconsistancies from league to league has the whole thing looking like a waste of time!!!! Now I'm a big advocate FOR IT, but only if its done properly.
IMO the more remote a club is, should be the ONLY REASON FOR ANY TYPE OF EXEMPTION, as they would obviously find it harder to recruit players. Perhaps base it on: a 100km radius from the clubrooms, and the population residing in that radius divided by the number of clubs in it also. If the CFB did this then allocated Max points according to this, no-one could argue!

SFL- giving more points to the lower finishing clubs, upwards of 6 extra. Are you joking me? The SFL is practically in Adelaide, and should have zero reason for any need of extra points! If they have a numbers problem, maybe they should take advice from a club like, well any country club that has a local base of PEOPLE, not just players under 100, of which there are many!

GSFL- Have given exemption to some clubs because the recruited players from the SAAFL before they came on board with the Points system. As long as this is a 1 year deal, I dont see an issue with it.

Mallee- Is giving huge exemptions to clubs, in some cases upwards of 10 extra points. This is a short sighted solution! Yes they need extra points, but you cant fix a club in 1 year. It takes solid choices over a 3-4 year period to build a good list.

Hills Div 1&2- Dont have any stagger to their system at all, with all clubs receiving 15 points regardless of previous years finishing placement. Surely its obvious that a lower team should have maximum points allocation (15 points), while the premiers have a reduced allocation as they are already very competetive. The whole point of it is to try and get even competitions.

RMFL- Have the Stagger system in place, but don't take it far enough. In recent years the difference between 3rd & 5th has been a big 1, yet they are on the same amount of points. Each place higher on the ladder, should result in 1 less point (this wont work for every league, as some have too many clubs, in which case they would have to perhaps group clubs in 2's)

Please add to this other leagues that I am unaware of how theirs work and I'm sure we will see some more variations

unless i'm reading your post wrong the HFL already have a staggered system.

[The Patriach]

I am a very disappointed Country/Amature football follower at the moment

The points system was put into place to unify leagues with player recruitment numbers, was it not? If what we are to believe on here, the inconsistancies from league to league has the whole thing looking like a waste of time!!!! Now I'm a big advocate FOR IT, but only if its done properly.
IMO the more remote a club is, should be the ONLY REASON FOR ANY TYPE OF EXEMPTION, as they would obviously find it harder to recruit players. Perhaps base it on: a 100km radius from the clubrooms, and the population residing in that radius divided by the number of clubs in it also. If the CFB did this then allocated Max points according to this, no-one could argue!

SFL- giving more points to the lower finishing clubs, upwards of 6 extra. Are you joking me? The SFL is practically in Adelaide, and should have zero reason for any need of extra points! If they have a numbers problem, maybe they should take advice from a club like, well any country club that has a local base of PEOPLE, not just players under 100, of which there are many!

GSFL- Have given exemption to some clubs because the recruited players from the SAAFL before they came on board with the Points system. As long as this is a 1 year deal, I dont see an issue with it.

Mallee- Is giving huge exemptions to clubs, in some cases upwards of 10 extra points. This is a short sighted solution! Yes they need extra points, but you cant fix a club in 1 year. It takes solid choices over a 3-4 year period to build a good list.

Hills Div 1&2- Dont have any stagger to their system at all, with all clubs receiving 15 points regardless of previous years finishing placement. Surely its obvious that a lower team should have maximum points allocation (15 points), while the premiers have a reduced allocation as they are already very competetive. The whole point of it is to try and get even competitions.

RMFL- Have the Stagger system in place, but don't take it far enough. In recent years the difference between 3rd & 5th has been a big 1, yet they are on the same amount of points. Each place higher on the ladder, should result in 1 less point (this wont work for every league, as some have too many clubs, in which case they would have to perhaps group clubs in 2's)

Please add to this other leagues that I am unaware of how theirs work and I'm sure we will see some more variations

Goldy, I think both you and I knew from the outset that there would be ways found to manipulate this system to suit individual leagues/clubs. Not sure how you overcome it, maybe it can't be overcome but I agree with your sentiments 100%. There are other issues that come to mind also, but we'll leave that for another time.

BL&GFA has 1 club with 3 points, another 1 at least on 24, not much equality in that either and 25 minutes from town on the new Expressway.

Sorry to shoot you down mate but one club has 3 points (tanunda) - won 3 premierships in a row
and the highest amount of points is 14 (willaston) - recent cellar dwellers

No idea where you pulled 24 points from, for a league to allocate more than 15 points, they need to pass it through the Community Football Board, and only 3 clubs in SA exceed 15 points this coming season (fact).

The only problem with this system is that it is perfectly fair, so that their is a rotation of success, the only ones complaining are the clubs on the way down, you've had your time, let someone else win FFS!

[The Gimp]

Hills Div 1&2- Dont have any stagger to their system at all, with all clubs receiving 15 points regardless of previous years finishing placement. Surely its obvious that a lower team should have maximum points allocation (15 points), while the premiers have a reduced allocation as they are already very competetive. The whole point of it is to try and get even competitions.

Yep, Goldberg, you need to check your facts before having a massive rant like that. The HFL have got a staggered system in place which takes into account the previous 3 years and ladder positions over that time. So the top 3 sides have 10 points, the next 4 have 12 and the bottom 3 have 15 points.

Aside from that, I think clubs and leagues will need to give the system time to work. Surely people don't think that this new system is about to fix everyting over night?? I reckon it will take 3-5 years before this system really shows the benefits and I also think there will be a few tweeks here and there in that time to try and get it right.
I believe something had to happen as the salary cap was useless and player payments had continued on a steep upward trend for the last 5-8 (perhaps more) years.

I do agree however that all leagues should have a comparable system but I think the CFL have allowed quite a few variations in this first year/s which I think is fair enough as long as they're not too over the top.

The one variation/tweek I would like to see made is something to stop clubs poaching/recruiting other clubs U17's. At the moment they are worth 0 points which makes the best colts of the club a hot target for recruit. I think perhaps a senior colt should be worth a couple (at least 1) of points to a club that he didn't play colts with, that was it doesn't make it as attractive for other clubs to recruit him.

[shoe boy]

Aside from that, I think clubs and leagues will need to give the system time to work. Surely people don't think that this new system is about to fix everyting over night?? I reckon it will take 3-5 years before this system really shows the benefits and I also think there will be a few tweeks here and there in that time to try and get it right.
I believe something had to happen as the salary cap was useless and player payments had continued on a steep upward trend for the last 5-8 (perhaps more) years.

I do agree however that all leagues should have a comparable system but I think the CFL have allowed quite a few variations in this first year/s which I think is fair enough as long as they're not too over the top.

The one variation/tweek I would like to see made is something to stop clubs poaching/recruiting other clubs U17's. At the moment they are worth 0 points which makes the best colts of the club a hot target for recruit. I think perhaps a senior colt should be worth a couple (at least 1) of points to a club that he didn't play colts with, that was it doesn't make it as attractive for other clubs to recruit him.[/quote]

A very good point re juniors.

I have an issue when you have a gap from 15 points to 32!!!!!

[Goldberg]

Hills Div 1&2- Dont have any stagger to their system at all, with all clubs receiving 15 points regardless of previous years finishing placement. Surely its obvious that a lower team should have maximum points allocation (15 points), while the premiers have a reduced allocation as they are already very competetive. The whole point of it is to try and get even competitions.

Yep, Goldberg, you need to check your facts before having a massive rant like that. The HFL have got a staggered system in place which takes into account the previous 3 years and ladder positions over that time. So the top 3 sides have 10 points, the next 4 have 12 and the bottom 3 have 15 points.

Aside from that, I think clubs and leagues will need to give the system time to work. Surely people don't think that this new system is about to fix everyting over night?? I reckon it will take 3-5 years before this system really shows the benefits and I also think there will be a few tweeks here and there in that time to try and get it right.
I believe something had to happen as the salary cap was useless and player payments had continued on a steep upward trend for the last 5-8 (perhaps more) years.

I do agree however that all leagues should have a comparable system but I think the CFL have allowed quite a few variations in this first year/s which I think is fair enough as long as they're not too over the top.

The one variation/tweek I would like to see made is something to stop clubs poaching/recruiting other clubs U17's. At the moment they are worth 0 points which makes the best colts of the club a hot target for recruit. I think perhaps a senior colt should be worth a couple (at least 1) of points to a club that he didn't play colts with, that was it doesn't make it as attractive for other clubs to recruit him.

Sorry if my information about your league was incorrect, (was it as I stated in previous years then?) but please dont miss the point i was trying to make! We need 1 system for all leagues, was meant to be the main message from the post. The examples of each league were just that! Examples!
As I had stated, I to think the correct system is a good 1, and just needs time to work itself out & get it right.

[The Patriach]

Hills Div 1&2- Dont have any stagger to their system at all, with all clubs receiving 15 points regardless of previous years finishing placement. Surely its obvious that a lower team should have maximum points allocation (15 points), while the premiers have a reduced allocation as they are already very competetive. The whole point of it is to try and get even competitions.

Yep, Goldberg, you need to check your facts before having a massive rant like that. The HFL have got a staggered system in place which takes into account the previous 3 years and ladder positions over that time. So the top 3 sides have 10 points, the next 4 have 12 and the bottom 3 have 15 points.

Aside from that, I think clubs and leagues will need to give the system time to work. Surely people don't think that this new system is about to fix everyting over night?? I reckon it will take 3-5 years before this system really shows the benefits and I also think there will be a few tweeks here and there in that time to try and get it right.
I believe something had to happen as the salary cap was useless and player payments had continued on a steep upward trend for the last 5-8 (perhaps more) years.

I do agree however that all leagues should have a comparable system but I think the CFL have allowed quite a few variations in this first year/s which I think is fair enough as long as they're not too over the top.

The one variation/tweek I would like to see made is something to stop clubs poaching/recruiting other clubs U17's. At the moment they are worth 0 points which makes the best colts of the club a hot target for recruit. I think perhaps a senior colt should be worth a couple (at least 1) of points to a club that he didn't play colts with, that was it doesn't make it as attractive for other clubs to recruit him.

Sorry if my information about your league was incorrect, (was it as I stated in previous years then?) but please dont miss the point i was trying to make! We need 1 system for all leagues, was meant to be the main message from the post. The examples of each league were just that! Examples!

I don't see how one system can encompass all leagues due to the different circumstances in every league??
Every league is to its own, for example, how is the Woomera and Districts premier, on the same points as the BL&GFA or GSFL premier meant to compete...?

[Goldberg]

They dont play each other!!! Sorry, but i dont see the relevance in that statement at all

[The Patriach]

They dont play each other!!! Sorry, but i dont see the relevance in that statement at all

I meant to say **compete for players**. They need more points, as do clubs in the Hills with smaller towns, so a central points system would be terrible.

[sunbowler]

I'm sorry Seagull, but it is the idiot attitudes by yourself and other posters on this network that make it so hard for some real progress for the future of grass roots football to be achieved. There is no doubt that every competition of merit should have some sort of equalisation system for its long term survival and the long term future of the competing clubs. The APPS system as introduced into SA football over the last two seasons hasn't come about from any sort of 'thinktank' with wide ranging contributions, but has been transposed basically from some Victorian systems with little regard to what's best for football at the 'lower' levels in this state. Having been at a forum with members of the CFB as late as last Tuesday I can also assure you the don't give a ' rats toss bag' about individual club survival. Their main focus is securing their own funding and the benchmarks for their own 'achievements' are controlled by themselves, and not subject to scrutiny by the the supposed stakeholders, ie the country clubs. The fact that some clubs are allowed on appeal to have more than the quota of points is the same as allowing extra $ under a salary cap. The irregularities in allocating points to individual players make no sense; eg a CHF in the WBFL is the same points as a Div 3 SAAFL back pocket player who played maybe 10 games coming off the bench. AS for the BLG, Willaston finished last in 2010 for the first time in their history, previously they have been around the mark for the last umpteen years. As a Gawler Club they have a share of of nearly 20,000 in town population and since the removal of boundaries they access to a share of an extra 100,000 or so people that live in the northern suburbs. They have a player points allocation of 15 points as do three other clubs in the BLG- South Gawler, Freeling and Kapunda. We must be the only competition in the world to have four teams running last. Tanunda have set a benchmark in administration and coaching which has netted them three premierships in a row. Sure they have outlayed some cash but other than Britton most others are locals or good country footballers who were in the right place at the right time. Am I envious, sure I am but it should be a case of other clubs stepping up, not bringing them down off field in the back rooms of other clubs on a card night. It is not a fair system both by its design and how the BLG have interpreted it. The points system as it stands favours bigger communities and sits well with the SAAFL who operate 15 points across the board for every club.
PS Happy to talk with at length with you any time. Am a West Adelaide supporter, clearly remember 1961, know Alan Tregenza quite well and come from the same town as Trevor Reu.

[quote="T
BL&GFA has 1 club with 3 points, another 1 at least on 24, not much equality in that either and 25 minutes from town on the new Expressway.

Sorry to shoot you down mate but one club has 3 points (tanunda) - won 3 premierships in a row
and the highest amount of points is 14 (willaston) - recent cellar dwellers

No idea where you pulled 24 points from, for a league to allocate more than 15 points, they need to pass it through the Community Football Board, and only 3 clubs in SA exceed 15 points this coming season (fact).

The only problem with this system is that it is perfectly fair, so that their is a rotation of success, the only ones complaining are the clubs on the way down, you've had your time, let someone else win FFS![/quote]



I stand corrected and therefore ask this question ,I understand the Tanunda 3 points so with 15 as the maximum, you say Willaston have been cellar dwellers for a while, why aren't they allocated the max of 15 then or is there another club with the max points?[/quote]

[Media Park]

PLFL are bringing the points system in this year, so i read these comments with interest...