Ashes 4th test Boxing Day - Melbourne Discussion

[am Bays]

This is going to be a great finale to the test and I think Watson and Bailey have to stand up and contribute or the blow torch will really be on in Sydney....

I think Bucky and Smith would be feeling a little safer but also wouldn't want to bat like the English tail or Sydney will see Both of them also undera bit of pressure.

Gotta be none fa at stumps.

Good to see a bit of aggressive intent as well.

Watson is safe form wise, his 2nd last score was a test ton. He might not play due to injury though.

[mal]

Love Clarke is still attacking Pieterson unlike Cook

Love u Haddin but that's a tad embarrasing, especially after the mini celebration

That was poor by Haddin, if one of the Poms did that everyone would be calling them cheats

Its about time somebody had a go at Haddin this series ...

[Grahaml]

Are we referring to Haddin appealing for hit wicket against Pietersen? I think from his perspective that would have looked stone cold. Pietersen going back, steps back and at the same time the stump pushed backwards and the bail comes off. He wouldn't have been able to see exactly where KP's foot was being directly behind the stumps and watching the ball more than the batsman.

[Grahaml]

Overall a great day for Australia. Putting on 10 runs would have been our hopes after last night. To get 30 was great. Haddin having one of the great series in history IMHO. Plenty scored more runs, but he's done it in tough situations and not had the chance to really go on and plunder. The one failure he did have was when we were looking to pile on runs in a huge hurry. Also has hardly missed a trick behind the stumps. There was even criticism of his review advice to Clarke for a while, but few errors made there this entire series.

Johnson again masterful. 51 blokes in the history of cricket have taken more wickets in a series. That includes a lot in 6 tests and he has 1 test left. As the commentators have said, he's earned wickets for the other blokes too, takes catches, hits runs, causes run outs. Shame he got his bowling sorted at 32 and not 25 or we'd be looking at a monster of a record.

Thought the poms made every mistake they could after the first 20 overs. Cook went into his shell, Root and Carberry put no pressure on the bowlers and meekly surrendered their wickets. Bell got a good one and dealt with it poorly while the rest found ways to get out. Pietersen went into his shell after Bairstow fell then tried to explode by falling into the most obvious trap in test cricket! Was there anyone else watching not expecting the ball tossed right up to get a down the ground whoosh? I'd have preferred a reverse pull to be honest. Even that last 8 overs. I know batsmen hate batting for just 8 overs but even in that time you can be positive and get something out of it. Those 30 runs at either end of the day could easily be the difference. Instead of needing 260 tomorrow, it's 200.

And well done Nathan Lyon. Far better when the batsmen are looking to hit runs off him, but did a masterful job cleaning up the tail.

[wristwatcher]

When I was a lad we had the synchrome super test team...no Billy that's not where you pick the 12 players that most look like spanners.

I have been doing this for over 30 years now and here is how my best 11 would look currently. Admittedly it could change tomorrow depending on result. Like the series score it is pretty one sided.
1. Rogers
2.Warner
3. Watson - just, bowling gets him over the line. Root hasn't really looked worthy and Trott
4. Clarke (c)
5. Smith
6. Petersen - I know he bats in a different spot but still Eng best bat despite brain farts
7. Haddin - just
8. Johnson
9. Harris
10. Siddle
11. Lyon

As a unit not sure which England pace bowler could argue for inclusion as there bowling has been below par and their batting utter tripe. Stokes might be the only unlucky one for the Poms but 10-1 suggests our dominance. As a matter of fact Bailey would be my 12th man as he has been excellent at short leg and in the field.

Can anyone make a case for any other Pom or do you think any of them will stand up tomorrow and warrant selection?

[am Bays]

I reckon you can make a case for Cook instead of Rodgers even though Cook has scored the same amount of runs as Rodgers at a slightly lower average. However based on your side above Cook has had to face by far the better attack. As much as I love Siddle I'd have Broad in ahead of him with Sids as twelthy.

[carey]

When I was a lad we had the synchrome super test team...no Billy that's not where you pick the 12 players that most look like spanners.

I have been doing this for over 30 years now and here is how my best 11 would look currently. Admittedly it could change tomorrow depending on result. Like the series score it is pretty one sided.
1. Rogers
2.Warner
3. Watson - just, bowling gets him over the line. Root hasn't really looked worthy and Trott
4. Clarke (c)
5. Smith
6. Petersen - I know he bats in a different spot but still Eng best bat despite brain farts
7. Haddin - just
8. Johnson
9. Harris
10. Siddle
11. Lyon

As a unit not sure which England pace bowler could argue for inclusion as there bowling has been below par and their batting utter tripe. Stokes might be the only unlucky one for the Poms but 10-1 suggests our dominance. As a matter of fact Bailey would be my 12th man as he has been excellent at short leg and in the field.

Can anyone make a case for any other Pom or do you think any of them will stand up tomorrow and warrant selection?

Whilst your 100% right Australia have totally dominated and very much down and out England at the moment Broad walks in infront of Siddle. But I can't make a case for anyone else.

No idea why Carberry simply can't bat in a 2nd innings. For is first series 1st innings scores of 40,60,48 and 38 is a very good start the fact is if a Clarke or the like got them starts at least 1 maybe 2 would be a big 100 but his been for mine the England bat along with KP.

[carey]

Overall a great day for Australia. Putting on 10 runs would have been our hopes after last night. To get 30 was great. Haddin having one of the great series in history IMHO. Plenty scored more runs, but he's done it in tough situations and not had the chance to really go on and plunder. The one failure he did have was when we were looking to pile on runs in a huge hurry. Also has hardly missed a trick behind the stumps. There was even criticism of his review advice to Clarke for a while, but few errors made there this entire series.

Johnson again masterful. 51 blokes in the history of cricket have taken more wickets in a series. That includes a lot in 6 tests and he has 1 test left. As the commentators have said, he's earned wickets for the other blokes too, takes catches, hits runs, causes run outs. Shame he got his bowling sorted at 32 and not 25 or we'd be looking at a monster of a record.

Thought the poms made every mistake they could after the first 20 overs. Cook went into his shell, Root and Carberry put no pressure on the bowlers and meekly surrendered their wickets. Bell got a good one and dealt with it poorly while the rest found ways to get out. Pietersen went into his shell after Bairstow fell then tried to explode by falling into the most obvious trap in test cricket! Was there anyone else watching not expecting the ball tossed right up to get a down the ground whoosh? I'd have preferred a reverse pull to be honest. Even that last 8 overs. I know batsmen hate batting for just 8 overs but even in that time you can be positive and get something out of it. Those 30 runs at either end of the day could easily be the difference. Instead of needing 260 tomorrow, it's 200.

And well done Nathan Lyon. Far better when the batsmen are looking to hit runs off him, but did a masterful job cleaning up the tail.

Whilst I agree with a lot of that. Cook didn't go in his shell he made close to a run a ball 51 and looked very good.

As much as Australian bowlers have been outstanding (Harris very underrated) the dismissals of Root, Bairstow, Brensnen and Broad simply isn't good enough. Maybe even Stokes dismissal

Also is there anyway KP can win with you mob? He puts his head down in both innings and his 'gone in his shell' or 'boring' yet has a wack gets out and it's a 'brain fart' or his an 'idiot'

[Grahaml]

Got to have Rogers in front for the other opener spot. Already more runs and still to complete this innings. As for Broad, his series in terms of numbers hasn't been so far ahead of the mortal Aussie pacemen.

Broad 17@ 24
Harris 14 @ 26
Siddle 13 @ 26

I'd say the few extra wickets and slightly better average wins out, but he also concedes 1 run an over more. Bowling is as much a partnership as batting (I could make a good case for it being even more so) and the fact that Harris, Siddle and even Watson have been able to keep things quiet for Johnson to smash England at the other end, or have a break without the game slipping away in the meantime cannot be underestimated. I think it's that close at the moment that tomorrow afternoon I might change my selection and take Broad out.

The brilliant bowling display really shows when you note the 5 main Aussie bowlers all average under 30 for the series at less than 3 RPO while of the 7 main English bowlers 1 averages less than 30 and 1 concedes less than 3RPO.

[Grahaml]

Whilst I agree with a lot of that. Cook didn't go in his shell he made close to a run a ball 51 and looked very good.

As much as Australian bowlers have been outstanding (Harris very underrated) the dismissals of Root, Bairstow, Brensnen and Broad simply isn't good enough. Maybe even Stokes dismissal

Also is there anyway KP can win with you mob? He puts his head down in both innings and his 'gone in his shell' or 'boring' yet has a wack gets out and it's a 'brain fart' or his an 'idiot'

I'm not talking about the majority of his innings, he was great and without doubt putting pressure on our bowlers. Then he allows Johnson to pin him on the crease and when Johnson no longer feared getting into his pads he bowled a leg stump ball that got him out. If Cook had been facing MJ with the same positivity of his innings before lunch, he probably hits that for 4.

There's no way you can defend KP's dismissals in either innings. We all know and understand what he was trying, but they were both incredibly low percentage plays. Risk is one thing, suicide is another.

[whufc]

On KP I can understand his second innings dismissal, the England tail would have given him no confidence and at the end of the day if you had to go after Lyon or Johnson your gonna go after Lyon ever day of the week. The shot was low percentage but he definatly has the quality to make that shot.

His first day performance while slow and boring was exactly what England needed from him at the time (could be the match winning innings if England get up) his dismissal on day 2 was terrible and nothing more than a para districts slap.

At the end of day his not hitting them at his best but he still looks to be England's best bat this series

[whufc]

Cook has dropped two in th first five overs, admittedly the first should have been the keepers

Cook is now the odds on fav to be the next Englishman to piss off home

[wristwatcher]

Grandma always said "Drop catches, lose matches" . Hope she is right again.

Root on. WTF, with us giving a chance an over off the seamers it seems odd

[whufc]

FFS are England on the take!!!

Two dropped catches
Broad taken off after two overs and a drop catch
Root bowling before Panesar (because of the foot marks but ffs)

[Brodlach]

Why the hell are they bowling Root so early?

[wristwatcher]

Why the hell are they bowling Root so early?

I had an early Root this morning

[Jim05]

Disgraceful by Cook
This is the old England I love
Reminds me of guys like Tufnell, Thorpe, Ramprakash, White, Mullaly, Fraser, DeFreitas and the conveyor belt of spuds they used to send out here

[dedja]

Wristies don't count Wristy ...

[Jim05]

Warner gone, never looked right this test

[dedja]

Need to be careful here, lose another quick one and the tide will start to swing ...