Ashes 2023

[mighty_tiger_79]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Bazball is all about slogging

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[MW]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Reckon Stokes wasnt much better, trying to play across the line with a flick on off stump. Stupid.
Bazball might be good for a session here and there, but it is not sustainable against good sides.

[tigerpie]

F*** me Alex

I didn't know your name was Alex man

[whufc]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Reckon Stokes wasnt much better, trying to play across the line with a flick on off stump. Stupid.
Bazball might be good for a session here and there, but it is not sustainable against good sides.

IF England win this test then that has to be put in the myth basket given England could claim they dominated the number 1 side in the world for 3 out of 5 tests playing bazball (if they win this test off course)

[tigerpie]

Carey's kept brilliantly the last 3 series.
Hardly misgloved any.
Due a bad one.
I do agree that the crowd noise has affected him though.

I so want to beat these pricks convincingly this test to shut them the fk up.

[MW]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Reckon Stokes wasnt much better, trying to play across the line with a flick on off stump. Stupid.
Bazball might be good for a session here and there, but it is not sustainable against good sides.

IF England win this test then that has to be put in the myth basket given England could claim they dominated the number 1 side in the world for 3 out of 5 tests playing bazball (if they win this test off course)

Dominated the no.1 side in the world with one of their biggest bowling weapons injured, and opener grossly out of form all fatigued from a ridiculous schedule.

I get this bazball will work from time to time, but to me it is hit and miss. Keep that for the ODIs where nobody gives a shit if most teams win or lose.

[whufc]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Reckon Stokes wasnt much better, trying to play across the line with a flick on off stump. Stupid.
Bazball might be good for a session here and there, but it is not sustainable against good sides.

IF England win this test then that has to be put in the myth basket given England could claim they dominated the number 1 side in the world for 3 out of 5 tests playing bazball (if they win this test off course)

Dominated the no.1 side in the world with one of their biggest bowling weapons injured, and opener grossly out of form all fatigued from a ridiculous schedule.

I get this bazball will work from time to time, but to me it is hit and miss. Keep that for the ODIs where nobody gives a shit if most teams win or lose.

Come on mate clutching at straws.

If anything, it appears Bazball has worn down the Aussies and is proving more successful as the series goes on. Pat looks tired from both the schedule but also the fast-paced nature of the tests, mentally he looks shot from the speed at which he has had to make decisions whilst in the field.

Our batsmen appear somewhat mentally fatigued as well from the quick turnaround of innings. Could be an explanation why none of our batsmen have really been able to go on and build a big score.

[MW]

I'll agree to disagree mate
I get some of your points and agree also, but still think bazball is not sustainable.

[whufc]

I'll agree to disagree mate
I get some of your points and agree also, but still think bazball is not sustainable.

Its going to be interesting to watch.

Bazabll has surprised me.

I was in the 'can't be successful against quality bowlers, bowlers will be ****** by the fourth/fifth test, wont work camp'

But with some refinement (their declarations may need a rethink) i think Bazball probably is the way forward for a small period of time, Pat looks lost on how to captain against it, bowlers also look lost for ideas......that will change over time however.

I also think England have done well to get to 2-1, their team has Duckett, Crawley, Bairstow keeping, Ali at 3 FFS. It's a bloody spud farm the Irish would be proud of!!!!! Especially when compared to proven international performers such as Khawaja, Smith, Labuschagne, Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood. The quality in the sides is worlds apart.

[gadj1976]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Reckon Stokes wasnt much better, trying to play across the line with a flick on off stump. Stupid.
Bazball might be good for a session here and there, but it is not sustainable against good sides.

Completely agree with this comment. Against the West Indies, you can see big scores in double quick time, but against good opposition (not even great opposition) you would be susceptible to collapses.

[whufc]

Bairstow's shot to get out was deplorable, no footwork at all, just a slog.
I hope Carey makes 100.

Reckon Stokes wasnt much better, trying to play across the line with a flick on off stump. Stupid.
Bazball might be good for a session here and there, but it is not sustainable against good sides.

Completely agree with this comment. Against the West Indies, you can see big scores in double quick time, but against good opposition (not even great opposition) you would be susceptible to collapses.

Huh

England have hit:

8-393 dec
325
327
592

With a lowest score for the series of 237 i would hardly say the English have been collapsing against the best bowling attack in the world on somewhat favorable bowling surfaces.

Englands batting has not been their problem.

The fact Cummins and Lyon were able to put on 60 runs and Bairstow dropped a billion catches and Stokes made one of the all time costly declerations cost them the first test.

It's all hindsight and whatifs but in another universe where the Manchester weather goods were good as well England could be 3-1 up in the series and it wouldn't be an unfair reflection of how the series has panned out.

Australia took the big moments in the first two tests and richly deserved their victories but Englands bazball batting has been a success.

[tigerpie]

In case nobody noticed but england were bowled out in less than 60 overs.
Bazball does not work in test match cricket.
Sure, good run rate and entertaining to watch but it just isn't sustainable over a 5 test series.

Against the minnows it'll be successful but not against quality bowling

A decent captain and we'd be 3 nil up.
Cummins is a great player, but Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting would not have set fields for shit bowling.
They'd figure out a batsmans weakness and set him up. Much like Warnie.

[whufc]

In case nobody noticed but england were bowled out in less than 60 overs.
Bazball does not work in test match cricket.
Sure, good run rate and entertaining to watch but it just isn't sustainable over a 5 test series.

Against the minnows it'll be successful but not against quality bowling

A decent captain and we'd be 3 nil up.
Cummins is a great player, but Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting would not have set fields for shit bowling.
They'd figure out a batsmans weakness and set him up. Much like Warnie.

Different world. In their day batsmen hit the ball in very structured areas.

Ponting, Warnie never had to captain to blokes who could reverse ramp a bloke at 140km over the top of the slips for 6.

[tigerpie]

In case nobody noticed but england were bowled out in less than 60 overs.
Bazball does not work in test match cricket.
Sure, good run rate and entertaining to watch but it just isn't sustainable over a 5 test series.

Against the minnows it'll be successful but not against quality bowling

A decent captain and we'd be 3 nil up.
Cummins is a great player, but Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting would not have set fields for shit bowling.
They'd figure out a batsmans weakness and set him up. Much like Warnie.

Different world. In their day batsmen hit the ball in very structured areas.

Ponting, Warnie never had to captain to blokes who could reverse ramp a bloke at 140km over the top of the slips for 6.

Fine, you want to ramp then a fly slip and fine fine leg and instruct the bowler to bowl 6 rampable balls and get hit in the teeth or hole out.

[RB]

I also think England have done well to get to 2-1, their team has Duckett, Crawley, Bairstow keeping, Ali at 3 FFS. It's a bloody spud farm the Irish would be proud of!!!!! Especially when compared to proven international performers such as Khawaja, Smith, Labuschagne, Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood. The quality in the sides is worlds apart.

I agree with this bit.

I also agree that Bazball probably isn't sustainable against good sides, unless they're able to do it for 90 overs or so. If not, although you score quickly, you leave too much time for the other team to bat sensibly and make a decent score by conventional batting tactics. I.e. you take the pressure off the other team. Birmingham was a good example of this. Hopefully the Oval will be the same.

If England are able to keep it going so that they can consistently score 400+, then watch out.

However in assessing how well England have played this winter, I just can't look past the fact that it's usually so much harder for us to win tests in England than at home. Objectively, the touring side is always at a big disadvantage. We would obliterate England if the series was in Australia.

[whufc]

I also think England have done well to get to 2-1, their team has Duckett, Crawley, Bairstow keeping, Ali at 3 FFS. It's a bloody spud farm the Irish would be proud of!!!!! Especially when compared to proven international performers such as Khawaja, Smith, Labuschagne, Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood. The quality in the sides is worlds apart.

I agree with this bit.

I also agree that Bazball probably isn't sustainable against good sides, unless they're able to do it for 90 overs or so. If not, although you score quickly, you leave too much time for the other team to bat sensibly and make a decent score by conventional batting tactics. I.e. you take the pressure off the other team. Birmingham was a good example of this. Hopefully the Oval will be the same.

If England are able to keep it going so that they can consistently score 400+, then watch out.

However in assessing how well England have played this winter, I just can't look past the fact that it's usually so much harder for us to win tests in England than at home. Objectively, the touring side is always at a big disadvantage. We would obliterate England if the series was in Australia.

England mid 2000's they were quality with Strauss, Cook, Flintoff, Anderson, Broad, Swan etc.

England 2015 Ashes was the last of their quality sides with Cook, Bell, Root, Stokes in their top 6 plus Anderson and Broad 8 years younger.

England 2019, there side was absolutely junk but we sent over one with Harris opening, Wade as a specialist batsman, Paine as captain, Marsh who was still finding his feet, Siddle at the end of his career who was a left ball selection for that series. As bad an Aussie side as you will ever see.

England 2023, still a rubbish English side Ali at 3 FFS with grandpa Anderson and Broad versus an established number 1 ranked Aussie side.

[Lightning McQueen]

Dear me, Ali is at 3 as some sort of day watchman, they don’t care if he gets out, if he soaks up 20 overs then his job is done.

I think you underestimate this English team, they have loads of talent!

[whufc]

Dear me, Ali is at 3 as some sort of day watchman, they don’t care if he gets out, if he soaks up 20 overs then his job is done.

I think you underestimate this English team, they have loads of talent!

Love it

All part of the Bazball evolution.

[locky801]

Dear me, Ali is at 3 as some sort of day watchman, they don’t care if he gets out, if he soaks up 20 overs then his job is done.

I think you underestimate this English team, they have loads of talent!

Ali didnt seem to have much trouble putting Cummins into the crowd a few times, from memory took 18 or 20 off of one over from him

[Armchair expert]

Hope we bat for the next two days scoring at 3 runs an over