Ponting as Captain?

[duncs7]

Does anyone else besides me think that Ponting, besides being a great batsmen, is a poor captain?
He comes across as really arrogant when things don t go his way. e.g. 2nd One day match in NZ, When the NZ boys called us out on the 3 in a circle which resulted in a noball at the crucial stage of the match.
He looked so arrogant as he argued the point to billy, when if if was the other way around he would have been the first to scream to the umpires?
I think Shane Warne has to captain Australia!

[Dog_ger]

Shane Warne will never captain Australia..! Fact. Too much bad publicity against his name. Australia does't change its captain very often of late.. I think the only problem with the team is it is getting too long in the tooth. The players we have had, have all been freaks. Fabulous sports men. What an era we have been blessed with. What about Australia "A" over the years. Equal to any team in the world..? How many 5 test match series do we play now..? Not many, none are good enough..? I think arrogance is part of being a champion, any sport..? Ponts got my vote out of the list.

[Punk Rooster]

Warnie missed the boat, but I'm thinking that he's better out in the front lines, than planning the atacks. The key issue here is Boof Lehman. Since he ceased playing, there's been a decline with regards to tactics & experience. Ponting was the logical choice, and must stay on as captain. He will get better with time, he needs a few hardships like the Ashes loss, to make him a better captain, as he was brought up in a great era, where he was spoiled with win after win(as anyone would've been) McGrath no, Lee no, Warnie maybe, but missed his chance. The Aussies have probably lost that hunger that comes with youth & inexperience. We will need to enjoy what we can, because the sun is setting on one of the greatest Test sides ever.

[Jimmy]

LEE?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i have no ******* idea who could be captain, maybe fergie from SA or clarke if he ever gets back to form, which he should do....

[Rik E Boy]

This poll is a shocker. While I agree Ponting's captaincy is not all that great at times and was shocking in England, the other alternatives simply don't make sense. What would be the point in appointed Warne or McGrath at this stage of their careers? Of the four players mentioned, Warne has the best brain for captaincy but Ponting is the right man for the job, in other words, I believe he will get better.

As for Brett Lee, that was a good one. The guy has to be the stupidest player in first class cricket. All brawn and no brains....at his age and experience he should know by know not to do things like bowling bouncers over batsmen's heads in the last overs of a one day international.

regards,

REB

[eags]

Name me a successful captain who wasn't arrogant.....

[Rik E Boy]

Clive Lloyd
Richie Benaud
Frank Worrell

regards,

REB

[JK]

Clive Lloyd was the first that came to my mind ... I'm not as old as REB so can't comment on the others!

As for the poll including Brett Lee, surely you jest?? Would have been more reasonable to have included Gilly although you face the same problem as you would with Warney and Pigeon, in terms of how much longer they might be around for!

I think Punter has shown some deficiencies, however that said most would have been comparing him against Tugger, Tubby and perhaps AB, who had more dominant sides at their disposal (obviously with AB we're talking toward his latter years) ... I don't see that we have anyone at present who should oust him, and hopefully either he'll continue to learn and grow in the position, or someone will develop in a hasty timeframe!

[duncs7]

Yes Brett Lee was a joke
I feel bad for warnie, so what if he gets up to a bit of mischeif?
He is up there with the best cricketers in the world ever, and he wont get to captain Australia. I think he has a better cricket brain then punter and would make a better leader on the field, maybe not off!!
I can see Warne playing till hes 40 easily! The year off has done his body wonders, i personally think it was the best thing to happen to his playing career.
I chose those Warne and McGrath as captains becoz quite frankly we have no leaders besides them in the Australian team.

[eags]

3 ain't a lot!!! The point I was trying to make is that you'll find most successful captains, at least on the field, come across as arrogant.

[eags]

Just out of curiosity, on which occasions has Ponting's captaincy been that bad?

[Rik E Boy]

Ponting's decision to bowl first in the second test cost us the Ashes. We had just lost Glen McGrath to that freak injury, and the wicket was a belter. Punter inserted the Poms, who belted our attack and we lost the test by two runs. We could have batted them out of the series but instead handed the iniative back to England.

Punters field placment was dire throughout the majority of the series. While Vaughan was effectively using the 'in and out' field to effectively restrict Australia's scoring rate, Ponting retained our agressive field placements throughout, even when the English batsmen were firmly on top. The end result was that far too often a shitload of runs was scored through the third man region.

You have a point about the arrogant skippers, my point is that if you make generalisations there is always a couple of exceptions to the rule.

Cheers,

REB

[eags]

I reckon Ponting copped a lot of unfair stick about "his" decision to bowl first at Edgbaston. The toss isn't decided on by one person. It's a team decision and I'm sure they would've discussed their options at the team meeting the night before, as well as on the morning of the match. The Aussies belted the poms at Lords, so as a side they would've been pretty confident of rolling them again, even without McGrath.

I agree to some extent that his field placings were a little too attacking at times, however you have to consider that he had 4 of the best bowlers in the world (McGrath, Gillespie, Lee and Warne) leading the attack. With an outfit like that you have to back your bowlers in to take wickets, again especially after the first test. Unfortunately the bowlers (in particular Kaspa and Dizzy) had a shocker of a series and weren't able to apply the pressure that they are accustomed to.

I think it's easy to criticise a captain when a series is lost, however rarely do they receive any accolades when a series is a white-wash, such as the recent West Indies series.

[scott]

I'd actually prefer Adam Gilchrist to be captain.

Ricky Ponting is a good batsmen, but as was illustrated in the recent Ashes Series, his tactics and overall field placings were so very poor. Michael Vaughan beat him hands down.

That's been Ponting's struggle throughout his entire captaincy career.

Shane Warne has too many behind-the-scenes problems to probably be considered the 'face of Australian Cricket'.

Glenn McGrath's an interesting one, but he only has a few years left in him, so I'd be inclined to select a cricketer who is well established, but still has plenty left in him.

[Rik E Boy]

I reckon Ponting copped a lot of unfair stick about "his" decision to bowl first at Edgbaston. The toss isn't decided on by one person. It's a team decision and I'm sure they would've discussed their options at the team meeting the night before, as well as on the morning of the match. The Aussies belted the poms at Lords, so as a side they would've been pretty confident of rolling them again, even without McGrath.

I agree to some extent that his field placings were a little too attacking at times, however you have to consider that he had 4 of the best bowlers in the world (McGrath, Gillespie, Lee and Warne) leading the attack. With an outfit like that you have to back your bowlers in to take wickets, again especially after the first test. Unfortunately the bowlers (in particular Kaspa and Dizzy) had a shocker of a series and weren't able to apply the pressure that they are accustomed to.

I think it's easy to criticise a captain when a series is lost, however rarely do they receive any accolades when a series is a white-wash, such as the recent West Indies series.

REBs Rebuttal

1. A team decision on the toss? Interesting theory. Yes, it would have been discussed but this 'Captaincy by committee' was one of the major critisisms of Ponting's captaincy in England (one which was strongly refuted by Ponting). Ponting put his hand up and admitted his error at Edgbaston, I doubt he would have done this if was a team decision (LMAO).

2. And why do you think Australia won at bloody Lords? McGrath used the slope of the track to destroy the poms. Second test, no McGrath, no Slope..but hey we'll bowl anyway..I'm glad you are that one cricket fan that was happy with that call.

3. Four of the best bowlers in the World. Only Warne was a top form for the whole series. McGrath missed two tests, Gillespie was so out of form he didn't deserve to play in one test let alone the three he did, Brett Lee averaged 40 with the ball and is nowhere near the top echoleon of world bowling. Attacking fields is generally the way to go but you have to be able to adapt when things start going against you.

4. Bagging the captain when the series is lost goes check by jowl like arrogance and successful captains. People have bagged Ponting because tacticly he was well below Vaughan in the series. In such a closely fought series, this proved the difference. I also believe that the coaching of Flanders leaves a lot to be desired. Gillespie and Hayden in particular looked like they were having technical deficencies that just didn't get addressed as the series progressed. Haydos got his head down when it was too late and it is only since Dizzy has returned to Australia that he has had the coaching and advice he needed in England to get back to anywhere near his best.

5. The West Indies are the 8th ranked side in Test cricket today. Do you think it was Pontings brilliant captaincy that won the series for us?

For all I've said, I still believe that Ponting is still the man for the job and that he will get better. Hopefully he'll run rings around Smith and we'll clean up the Yarpies but cripes he was poor in England.

regards,

REB

[JK]

Interesting to see that it was also Punters first series iirc without Boof, whom it was widely publicised had been Punters right hand man in the decision making process ... The field placings were woeful in England, however that said, how much responsibility should Ponting take for that?? Surely Buchanan would/should be the master researcher of opposition and the tactics that should be used to combat them? Surely Buchanan must also be responsible for the teams fielding prowess, which has slipped majorly in the past few years (and a mile away from the Bob Simpson days), enough to get away with victories against the lesser able teams of world cricket, but something that makes it near impossible to win when confronted with top notch opposition!!

The Captains role I would have thought, would be to enforce these tactics on the field, but a great captain also has that instictive ability to buck the trend and act on something he may have just picked up on out on the field, this is an area that I think Punter can, and most likely will, improve on with more time in the role!

[duncs7]

Dont know how anyone can say our "feilding has slipped majorly".
We are well known as the best feiding side in the world.
Look at some of the direct hit runouts u see these days from the boyz?
Dont remember all that many under AB or Tubbs.
We have the best keeper in the world and the least % of dropped catches.
What has slipped for us is depth in bowling. Simple as that

[Rik E Boy]

The reason people have mentioned the fact that our fielding has slipped is because it's true. You don't remember many run outs under Tubbs and AB? LMAO, that's because most of these happen in One Dayers and there are so many of them these days you'd be flat out remembering run outs from last season let alone ten years ago.

Our slips fielding is WELL BELOW what we have had traditionaly. The only decent slipper we have at the moment is Shane Warne. In the past we had Tubby, Waugh, Greg Chappell, even back to Simmo, Australians head the table with most catches in test cricket. As for best keeper in the world..you are right but Gilchrist is not as good with the gloves as was Ian Healy or Rod Marsh..he's just a far better batsman. Warney and Gilly dropped cruicial chances in England..very costly mon ami.

The fielding IS well down and the main reason for that is that Flanders dropped off the number of drills that the Australian team does..and it showed.

regards,

REB

[JK]

Sorry Duncs, but I disagree .. I reakon there was a time when at the pinnacle of their fielding game, the Aussies would sometimes turf less than 5 a series ... They certainly wouldn't drop anywhere near the amount of regulation or half chances they have in more recent times ...

REB's points are VERY valid regarding the slips fieldsmen imho

[Rik E Boy]

FFS!!! 0/56, defending a smallish total and what is Ponting's field? TWO SLIPS AND A GULLY. Two edges have just flown through there but Punter's on the backfoot. SA to make 400 just as England did regularly because PUNTER CAN'T SET A BLOODY FIELD. Get a clue Punter.

regards,

REB