V8 Super Cars 2013

[RustyCage]

of course it was going to work? so whats the issues at erebus motorsport then? It's not just a matter oh there good enough to do it will just happen. Yeh they can build cars but it's not just the car or the driver that wins you a race it's the whole team. You got mechanics that can work out how to get that extra .5sec out of the car or can't troubleshoot a problem with and your done. It was possible that it could of went pear shape, and anyone that doesn't believe so it basically a idiot for thinking that.

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

[kickinit]

You do realise they retained all their staff when they changed to Holden? Same mechanics, same drivers, mostly the same running gear. The biggest change was the shell.

Erabus started from scratch in this category. They came from the GT series, which has different rules for how the cars are made.

the biggest change was the shell? the biggest change was the engine and the aerodynamics of the car how the car reacts to different tracks. it's a lot more then starting the car and going out and racing it. like I said IT COULD OF been bad news for 888 racing making the move to holden.

[kickinit]

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

tipper said they where far too good for it not to work at holden. Erebus is a pretty dam good team so if there that good then why could they step in and be dominate straight away.

[kickinit]

You are both right. Ford pulled sponsorship money to all V8 teams except for two as a way to save money. It was decided that they would only provide funding to teams whose cars were blue.

I dont think Ford wouldve stuck with 888 if they kept the Betta Electrical livery though.

That article only says it is "understood" Ford only wanted blue cars. Thats probably sourced from Roland Danes letter to their fans.

Also, Whincup and Lowndes being just as dominant in the Holdens as they were in the Fords just proves how little which car they drive matters. The cars are almost identical performance wise, its just how the teams develope them over the course of the year. 888 is an international racing team who are always going to be successful because they have the resources and the right people in place. If they decided to put a Merc on the track next year, they would still be competitive, in my opinion.

888 racing Australia is now ran independently they are not a international race team.

[tipper]

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

tipper said they where far too good for it not to work at holden. Erebus is a pretty dam good team so if there that good then why could they step in and be dominate straight away.

all of those things that you stated, the engineers etc, they retained. all they did was sew a new logo on their gear. the aerodynamics are virtually the same, parity rules ensure that, and suspension settings wouldnt be that dissimilar to the fords (even if they were, they could have either been given them, or bought them from holden, and before you deny that, there is a history of teams selling info along pit lane, 888 are masters at it!)

erebus is good, and they will do well. but they started building their cars, what, three months ago? 888 had well over 12 months to build and test their commodores when they switched. the letter you linked even stated that when ford dropped them half way through a season didnt leave them enough time to change camps as they were already well into development of the next seasons car.

give erebus 12 months (and get them some decent drivers probably more importantly) and they will start to do much better.

meanwhile cheers for the insult champ. always love it when in a forum discussion someone results to inferring insults on their opponent, it shows that they are completely out of points to make i still think that 888 are far too good for a simple change of engine to cause the complete destruction of their entire organisation. and they have proven me right

[RustyCage]

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

tipper said they where far too good for it not to work at holden. Erebus is a pretty dam good team so if there that good then why could they step in and be dominate straight away.

No. Erebus have only been around since 2011, and are a good GT team because of the cars they bought being that much better than all others in the category. They joined with SBR 107 days before the Clipsal 500. They then had to design and build a Merc to CotF specs in less than 100 days. It was never going to be competitive here. Later in the year it will be.

888 going from Ford to Holden was a different kettle of fish. They had been working on their commodore since June the previous year and had factory support from Holden in getting to grips with the technical differences. They are also a part of a large international team so have plenty of support and resources globally.

[kickinit]

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

tipper said they where far too good for it not to work at holden. Erebus is a pretty dam good team so if there that good then why could they step in and be dominate straight away.

all of those things that you stated, the engineers etc, they retained. all they did was sew a new logo on their gear. the aerodynamics are virtually the same, parity rules ensure that, and suspension settings wouldnt be that dissimilar to the fords (even if they were, they could have either been given them, or bought them from holden, and before you deny that, there is a history of teams selling info along pit lane, 888 are masters at it!)

erebus is good, and they will do well. but they started building their cars, what, three months ago? 888 had well over 12 months to build and test their commodores when they switched. the letter you linked even stated that when ford dropped them half way through a season didnt leave them enough time to change camps as they were already well into development of the next seasons car.

give erebus 12 months (and get them some decent drivers probably more importantly) and they will start to do much better.

meanwhile cheers for the insult champ. always love it when in a forum discussion someone results to inferring insults on their opponent, it shows that they are completely out of points to make i still think that 888 are far too good for a simple change of engine to cause the complete destruction of their entire organisation. and they have proven me right

so what your saying it was absolutely impossible for anything to go wrong with 888 moving to holden?

[kickinit]

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

tipper said they where far too good for it not to work at holden. Erebus is a pretty dam good team so if there that good then why could they step in and be dominate straight away.

No. Erebus have only been around since 2011, and are a good GT team because of the cars they bought being that much better than all others in the category. They joined with SBR 107 days before the Clipsal 500. They then had to design and build a Merc to CotF specs in less than 100 days. It was never going to be competitive here. Later in the year it will be.

888 going from Ford to Holden was a different kettle of fish. They had been working on their commodore since June the previous year and had factory support from Holden in getting to grips with the technical differences. They are also a part of a large international team so have plenty of support and resources globally.

The whole reason why erebus is because they have ran into issues that they are now trying to fix, exactly same thing could of happened to 888, which is my whole point. IT COULD OF HAPPENED

Also 888 racing is no longer a international team. 888 racing Australia is ran fully independent and basically has nothing to do with the uk team.

[RustyCage]

Worse case scenario is they dropped down the grid while coming to grips with the cars characteristics are different to Fords in race trim. That wouldn't have lasted too long at all. The future of the team was never in any doubt whatsoever

[tipper]

why is it so hard for you to understand? when a golfer gets a new set of clubs does he or she all of a sudden suck at golf? when russel mark an olympic shooter gets a new shotgun, does he all of a sudden suck? if a footy player gets a new set of boots can they no longer kick?

888 moving to holden was never going to turn them into a crap team. they have the best engineers, the best pit crew and would have to have drivers that if not the best, are both top 5. where could they possibly have gone wrong?

their entire team changed to holden. it isnt as if they left all of their crew, and equipment behind, it all came with them. all they did was change the badge on the front of the car. they didnt start losing races when they removed the ford logo and replaced it with a hogs breath head, they were just as competitive. just like they didnt start losing races when they replaced the hogs head with a holden badge. they are too good a team to let a little thing like a new car make them less competitive. they have new cars this year too, are you worried that the car of the future might cause the end of 888 racing?

[tipper]

What's happening with Erebus isn't even remotely the same

tipper said they where far too good for it not to work at holden. Erebus is a pretty dam good team so if there that good then why could they step in and be dominate straight away.

No. Erebus have only been around since 2011, and are a good GT team because of the cars they bought being that much better than all others in the category. They joined with SBR 107 days before the Clipsal 500. They then had to design and build a Merc to CotF specs in less than 100 days. It was never going to be competitive here. Later in the year it will be.

888 going from Ford to Holden was a different kettle of fish. They had been working on their commodore since June the previous year and had factory support from Holden in getting to grips with the technical differences. They are also a part of a large international team so have plenty of support and resources globally.

The whole reason why erebus is because they have ran into issues that they are now trying to fix, exactly same thing could of happened to 888, which is my whole point. IT COULD OF HAPPENED

Also 888 racing is no longer a international team. 888 racing Australia is ran fully independent and basically has nothing to do with the uk team.

no, once again it couldnt have. with a longer lead time (as stated above, erebus had just over 100 days before clipsal, 888 had 12 months...) 888 are too professional to let the small detail of a new car derail them. they switched to holden after they had done the development and testing to ensure they maintained their standards. they did that after they knew they had enough lead time to make it happen.

to be honest erebus would have done themselves much more good if they waited 4 months and made the announcement for next season. i dare say that the brains behind the team is looking at this season as one of testing anyway, and any results they may snag as a bonus. they were never going to be competitive with the small window of development/testing that they had. i believe that 888 have had their car of the future for development and testing for 12 months or more. big difference and it shows

[kickinit]

seriously dude have a read of what I wrote. It could of happened you cant deny that. what happened if those engineers just couldn't work out the problems they where having. yes they have a great team and they work very hard to do what they do, but at the end of the day it was a possibility it could of happened.

[RustyCage]

Going from the 2012 cars to the 2013 CotF spec cars is a bigger jump than moving from Ford to Holden in 2009/10.

Erebus' issues are 100% related to having three months to design and build a car from scratch. If Erebus had joined with SBR and stayed a Ford team it would have been different. If they had become a Merc customer team as far out as 888 became a Holden team, they'd have been much more competitive.

Could 888 have switched to Holden and gotten off to a slow start? Yes, it was always unlikely, but it could have happened. Could it have caused the death of 888 at a team as you've said? No way in hell. Not even the slightest chance.

[tipper]

i read what you wrote, and still disagree. even before car of the future there was bugger all difference between holden and ford. the engine block and body shell were different. suspension, brakes, fuelling (both tanks/lines and the injection on the engine), engine management, gearbox, differential, the list goes on of common parts. and dont you think that if they were having insurmountable problems that holden wouldnt have helped them out?? they kinda had a bit to gain from them coming across and doing well. there wass no way that 888 moving to holden was going to be a failure.

>insert kicknit inferring insult here

[kickinit]

You said it 888 moving Holden was never going to be a failure. Anything could of gone wrong in that change to cause a failure. For 888 it went smoothly and they came out the other side laughing. But like any thing there is always that chance of something going wrong.

[HH3]

I apologise kickinit. Ford do not OWN FPR. But Im pretty sure they are their "factory team"...so they get the most sponsorship money and assistance from Ford Australia. Much in the same way Holden Racing Team operate. With Skaifey as the owner, but Holden pumping cash into the outfit.

[tipper]

any problems would have been overcome, therefore no problem. it couldnt have been a failure, it wasnt a failure, and it certainly never threatened to cause the failure of the entire team as you initially stated.

next circular argument please

[heater31]

I apologise kickinit. Ford do not OWN FPR. But Im pretty sure they are their "factory team"...so they get the most sponsorship money and assistance from Ford Australia. Much in the same way Holden Racing Team operate. With Skaifey as the owner, but Holden pumping cash into the outfit.

FPR are owned by Prodrive which also part own FPV with Ford Australia.

[HH3]

I apologise kickinit. Ford do not OWN FPR. But Im pretty sure they are their "factory team"...so they get the most sponsorship money and assistance from Ford Australia. Much in the same way Holden Racing Team operate. With Skaifey as the owner, but Holden pumping cash into the outfit.

FPR are owned by Prodrive which also part own FPV with Ford Australia.

Ah, well there you go, I was half right

[tipper]

I apologise kickinit. Ford do not OWN FPR. But Im pretty sure they are their "factory team"...so they get the most sponsorship money and assistance from Ford Australia. Much in the same way Holden Racing Team operate. With Skaifey as the owner, but Holden pumping cash into the outfit.

FPR are owned by Prodrive which also part own FPV with Ford Australia.

serious question, do prodrive still have a share in FPV? i know production of the road cars has moved back to the ford factory and i thought it was because prodrive either went belly up, or were very close to it?