SA Footy

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:I don't know this, but have heard this and would like some clarification.
Are workers at Holdens above and beyond what Award Rates are??

I assume this is a serious question. The conditions are ridiculously generous, and aren't grounded in any reality.

The union have helped pushed Holden to the brink. But it will be a long time before any AMWU official comes out and takes even a shred of responsibility for Holden going under. They just won't take responsibilty for anything. Management though are equally culpable.

A lot of economic factors involved here though, not just IR issues.

yes it was a serious question

thankyou for your answer

I had heard that the workers were paid generously, with the assistance of the Unions

it would seem the generous conditions the Unions got for the workers haven't helped the cause...

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:yes it was a serious question

thankyou for your answer

I had heard that the workers were paid generously, with the assistance of the Unions

it would seem the generous conditions the Unions got for the workers haven't helped the cause...

If somebody is lucky enough to be paid a bit over the odds good luck to them i suppose. But i don't think for a company in Holden's predicament it was anything but a very aggravating factor. But that is only one part of the equation, a lot of factors seemed to be against Holden.

Unfortunately i think it will really hit the north hard. Hopefully the workers affected will get their personal finances in order as much as they can and look ahead. But it's bloody terrible news, as much as it can't be a shock to anyone.

It is terrible news.

A few mates and I did some numbers a while back. We figured 2000 at Holdens. For every Holdens worker there would be 4-5 components supply chain workers. So call it 10,000. How many of those workers would be the main income earner? 80% or more?

That's up to 8000 families could be looking at a future without the main income earner in the house having a job.

It is very disturbing news for SA.

agreed booney

if holdens is gone its absolutely massive.

I think I eard on radio if holdens goes so does approx. 36,000 jobs?

that sounds like a crap load more than I was expecting.

sad day for everyone. ANother manufacturer gone

It just doesn't stop at Holdens.

With all these guys and girls going to be out of work its makes the job market even more competitive and much harder for people currently unemployed who are genuinely looking for jobs.

Sorry to throw the political element in but I don't get how Abbott is responsible for this though. The industry has been unsustainable for ages.

Do we blame the government that reduced tariffs on imported vehicles, the government that got us to an economic climate that make manufacture too expensive in this country, do we blame the unions for forcing wages up, do we blame the Labor government for bringing in the carbon tax (thereby shooting already labouring donkey) or do we blame Abbott for not "upping" the bail out package? For me, I can't blame Abbott because I'm always critical of throwing ridiculous amounts of money on business cases that lose money hand over fist.

Now if he'll just reduce funding on the arts and defence!

gadj1976 wrote:Now if he'll just reduce funding on the arts and defence!

So what should areas should funding be increased?

gadj1976 wrote:Sorry to throw the political element in but I don't get how Abbott is responsible for this though. The industry has been unsustainable for ages.
Do we blame the government that reduced tariffs on imported vehicles, the government that got us to an economic climate that make manufacture too expensive in this country, do we blame the unions for forcing wages up, do we blame the Labor government for bringing in the carbon tax (thereby shooting already labouring donkey) or do we blame Abbott for not "upping" the bail out package? For me, I can't blame Abbott because I'm always critical of throwing ridiculous amounts of money on business cases that lose money hand over fist.

Now if he'll just reduce funding on the arts and defence!

bravo

yet some tunnel visioned people say it is the current governments fault. Forgetful of the previous hand outs by the previous governments and it has made no change

I hate Abbott as much as anyone, but this isn't really his doing, it's been coming for a long time.

Money would have been better spent retraining workers.

Squids wrote:

gadj1976 wrote:Now if he'll just reduce funding on the arts and defence!

So what should areas should funding be increased?

Getting Sturt to a sustainable place might be a good start ;-)

Na, dunno Squids. I have worked in government for a lot of my 25 career and the waste is unbelievable. I can understand spending money on finding out if things work but if they don't, in fact they hemorrhage money for no greater good, then it's time to change our focus.

My concern is that the 500 mill they were planning to bail out Holden, they'll pi$$ that up against the wall on other futile things. THEN I'll be pi$$ed off with the Abbott government!

some numbers for everyone -

A maximum of 230,000 cars were made in Australia last year
apparently only 200,000 for this year so far to date
1.8 billion dollars has been thrown at car manu in Australia since 2001-2012
Money has been thrown at GMH just to break even for all those years
great profits there for a major world wide company


2.3 million cars were made in Thailand last year .
They pay less for labour over there I am sure ( yes I could be wrong here )

Now, for anyone running a business, you tell me where you would invest in the future in?

Booney wrote:It is terrible news.

A few mates and I did some numbers a while back. We figured 2000 at Holdens. For every Holdens worker there would be 4-5 components supply chain workers. So call it 10,000. How many of those workers would be the main income earner? 80% or more?

That's up to 8000 families could be looking at a future without the main income earner in the house having a job.

It is very disturbing news for SA.

It gets worse. Up to 8000 families not going out for a weekly meal, hiring a few DVDs on the weekend, and otherwise spending free cash results in less people employed at cafes, retail outlets, and so forth. This in turn leads to even less people with disposable cash, leading to more unemployment, and less people with disposable cash, etc... The knock-on effects from retrenching a workforce the size of Holdens would impact on everybody.

gadj1976 wrote:Sorry to throw the political element in but I don't get how Abbott is responsible for this though. The industry has been unsustainable for ages.
...
Now if he'll just reduce funding on the arts and defence!

Got to pull you up on that one. With manufacturing about to die in the arse in SA, it becomes imperative to maintain (if not increase) funding for defence. The defence sector employs a proportionally massive amount of people in SA; if that were to go as well, Adelaide would become another Detroit. Furthermore one significant chunk of defence is manufacturing (subs, boats etc); this arm of defence has demand for the skills of workers about to be discarded by Holdens.

Q. wrote:Money would have been better spent retraining workers.

^ this.

Or otherwise spent investing in industry which might use the skills of carmakers.

They say the third world war will be fought over food.......

Pseudo wrote:

gadj1976 wrote:Sorry to throw the political element in but I don't get how Abbott is responsible for this though. The industry has been unsustainable for ages.
...
Now if he'll just reduce funding on the arts and defence!

Got to pull you up on that one. With manufacturing about to die in the arse in SA, it becomes imperative to maintain (if not increase) funding for defence. The defence sector employs a proportionally massive amount of people in SA; if that were to go as well, Adelaide would become another Detroit. Furthermore one significant chunk of defence is manufacturing (subs, boats etc); this arm of defence has demand for the skills of workers about to be discarded by Holdens.

You're making a rather large assumption that the money given to Defence is spent effectively.

Throwing money at things doesn't fix them (see GMH for example).

Maybe the government could invest money in a company that develops innovative cars that have world wide popularity and economical.

Labour are shouting out about foreign investment in Qantas being increased yet are happy to pump money into a foreign company to keep an unsustainable company in Australia that they know will run at a loss.