HFL Division 1 (Central)

[The Gimp]

I cannot believe that the decision has been made that can include promotion/relegation points from finals games.
Effectively if your club is facing relegation, it would be better for your team to finish down in 4th or 5th instead of top because you can earn more prom/releg points, therefore promoting tanking towards the end of the season.

Qual/Elim Final:
Team 1 bye (0 pts)
Team 2 (10 pts) def Team 3 (0 pts)
Team 4 (0 pts) def by Team 5 (10 pts)
Semi Finals
Team 1 (10 pts) def Team 2 (0 pts)
Team 3 (0 pts) def by Team 5 (10 pts)
Prelim
Team 1 bye (0 pts)
Team 2 (0 pts) def by Team 5 (10 pts)
GF
Team 1 (10 pts) def Team 5 (0 pts)

Points earned:
Team 5 = 30 points
Team 1 = 20 points (premier)
Team 2 = 10 points
Team 3 & 4 = 0 points

So you don't even have to win the premiership, yet you can earn more prom/releg points??? I don't know what the judge was thinking???
I can't wait for this scenario to play out one day...

Your argument is flawed in that by finishing 4th or 5th you have to win less games, those higher up would not need as many wins in finals. Also, Echunga had secured their survival in week 2 of the finals as they only needed 2 more wins (finishing 12 points behind Bridgewater at the end of the minor round), so the fact that they played and won 4 extra games is irrelevant.
Had Echunga finished 2nd or 1st at the end of the minor round they would have had enough points at that stage.

No, you missed the point! If they are going to run it by this new "interpretation" (or commonly known as the whinger's loophole), it is an uneven playing field due to the fact that some clubs can play more finals than others. The prom/releg points should be measured on all teams playing the same amount of games therefore being an even measurement of where your club is at compared to others.
You are also wrong if you think if you are higher on the ladder you have won more games. Ever heard of percentage???

[cracka]

hey cracka ---just how close do you think most teams were to the undefeated echunga a grade of 2013 ---could of lost the grand final and still ended up in the central div in 2014 as kersbrook were never going to apply for promotion -----the I extra point made no difference ---for a total of 12 unlike mt lofty who entered country with 15 points in 2014 ----just a touch of bias ---ps cracka please put us in contact with the government department that supplied the taxpayers funds as they could be handy again in 2015 ---

Just going by what Nairne & Kersbrook people have told me, that they were within a goal of Echunga then along came 2 extra players for Echunga & then they couldn't get within 10 goals.
Just like legsman you have misunderstood my post about taxpayers money helping Echunga. I haven't said they did or have any proof, just going by what has been posted on here & what I've heard around the place (maybe thats a mistake on my part). All I did was asked the question IF, READ IT AGAIN, IF it turns out to be true, will it change any opinions. Do you get it now.

[R. White]

Gimp, agree with you maths. This is simply why the rule will be changed to state that finals are not included. As for the ruling on Echunga staying up, they found a loophole in the current rules. Had it not been addressed now, with the competitive state of hills football I am sure it would have come up in the future. This is a very unusual circumstance and I don't think you can blame Echunga or the hfl. The rule was not clear and obviously Echunga had a chance to stay up in div 1, which they used. (If your club was in the same position I am sure they would do the same thing!)

[Dutchy]

I believe all it requires is 1 club to raise a motion that the Echunga football be banned for 12 months for bringing the game and the HFL in to disrepute, a seconder and then it would go to the vote!

Surely HFL's primary goal is to promote and foster Aussie Rules footy in the Hills region, how would banning/kicking out Echunga assist with this?

[afc9798]

I believe all it requires is 1 club to raise a motion that the Echunga football be banned for 12 months for bringing the game and the HFL in to disrepute, a seconder and then it would go to the vote!

Which would then result in further legal proceedings. Does anybody really want that?

[cracka]

hey jake the red belly snake
if the hfl want to attempt to expel the EFC by changing the rules well that's fine ----but be assured Echunga club officials know their way around the supreme court blindfolded these days and have no fear in going down that path if required ---
ps cracka still waiting on directions for those taxpayers dollars ----

Sorry, was only getting reception on the jetty at rapid bay, not in the camping ground & have only just seen this. Did u see my reply.

[chopper7]

Hey rock what ever they do outside of our football club is their business, they only play football for us, interesting you mention ware he only played half a season with us and got small change compared to the figure he was rumored to be on. You other people on here apart from the true believers just can't get your head around it, well get over it the dynasty has just begun. Ps never been to NT so wrong again

A dynasty? Let's not get too carried away.


Can anyone give their thoughts on David Liston, I have a few friends down south and they were saying his name was being thrown around as a potential recruit to Langhorne Creek? Seems like a rebounding, running defender just on memory..... Running defender can you give us an insight? Seems as though a few Echunga players were already picking clubs to go to if Echunga went down, jumping of a sinking ship I think it's called.

[cracka]

I heard there will be a SGM to have Echunga expelled from the HFL. Is this true? I'm told it can be done.

We can only hope. They've got my vote.

On what grounds? As much as I am not an echunga fan that is Pretty extreme I would have thought.

Yeah I hope not either. Lets just accept it & move on.

[cracka]

What has been the monetary cost to the hfl and hence the clubs and to echunga. Can't have come cheap. I suppose gate takings will have to go up to compensate this. If so thanks a lot all involved for making it more expensive to attend our local games. How is this a great win for hills football.

No cost to the HFL as if a club takes the action Echunga did then they also have to foot the HFL's bill. That by-law WAS written correctly & was pointed out by Uraidla (I think) at the AGM when it was decided by the clubs to fight Echunga's appeal. I wasn't there but apparently Echunga didn't know this & their reps were a bit surprised (to say the least) when this info came to light.

[cracka]

An 11 team comp should have been pushed and instituted immediately Echunga won the GF.
This would have saved everyone the expense and provided an amicable outcome.
Unfortunately this wasn't the preferred option by the HFL and clubs involved which led to today's outcome.
I hope that this is a message to the HFL that an even playing field is needed for all participating clubs with respect to apps points allocation and remuneration capacity with allocation of hosting finals.
After the turmoil that has occurred I personally would like to see Bridgey retain it's spot in Central and the comp then built to 12 teams in 2016 with Nairne coming up.
This will also bring more juniors into Central and a revamped facility that Nairne is undertaking.

I believe that if an 11 team comp is approved, Nairne would like to come in next year & make it a 12 team comp (can anyone from Nairne confirm or deny this).

F*** its sucked only having sporadic phone reception these last couple of days.

[cracka]

The other change as well as a tighter constitution should be that weighting of overall club points earnt is done in a manner that values the 2 most important sides within any club : u18 and A grade.

Have to disagree with your thoughts on the most important sides. All junior sides are extremely important for a clubs foundation and future, wonder how your under 13 and 15 feel about your comments. Surely you can't have an A grade without a b grade to back them up. Legs Man and echunga continue to lose friends and gain enemies, 2015 is not going to be a pleasant season it will always have a taint on it.

To clarify my suggested changes to the weighting - as all junior sides are very important!
I am simply saying the U/18 and A grade should have the heaviest weighting e.g
A - 10
B - 3
U/ 18 - 5
U / 14 - 2

It really is unfortunate that some of the members of this forum still cannot see reason and seem intent on bagging Echunga and it's supporters.
The decision made was by a Supreme Court judge and your still questioning it after all parties were heard and afforded AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

There is something obscene about the survival of an entire club in a division hanging on junior results.

Would be much better to determine promotion/relegation on A-Grade results but make it mandatory to field all sides (that includes the U/13s that are excluded from all of this for some reason). All clubs to provide a list of minimum 21 active players in each junior grade at the start of the season and ensure there are hefty fines for forfeits ($1000+), for away games a portion goes to the home club as compensation for lost revenue.

Its not based on junior results, its based on whole of club results.

[cracka]

hey cracka ---just how close do you think most teams were to the undefeated echunga a grade of 2013 ---could of lost the grand final and still ended up in the central div in 2014 as kersbrook were never going to apply for promotion -----the I extra point made no difference ---for a total of 12 unlike mt lofty who entered country with 15 points in 2014 ----just a touch of bias ---ps cracka please put us in contact with the government department that supplied the taxpayers funds as they could be handy again in 2015 ---

Have only just read this properly & you've said they could be handy AGAIN in 2015, does that mean you did use them this year.

[cracka]

Mortgage shield needs to be scrapped.
To many flaws.
Not just caused by HFL but Community Football League.

If as a league we cannot issue a permit to a child to encourage them to play football because it will affect the Mortgage Shield the shield needs to be scrapped.
If we cannot allocate APPS as written in the CFL constitution because it affects the Mortgage Shield then another reason the shield needs to go.
Larger towns must have voted this in because they are basically guaranteed of not being relegated. Given Echunga result this will even be more biased towards bigger clubs now.

What now will happen with APPS points obviously finals should now count. It will make a big difference the likes of Echunga Mt Barker Uraidla will go from 9 points to 6 points.

Most sensible scenario bottom of Central A Grade goes down top of Country A Grade comes up. May even look at bottom 2 and top 2.

Mortgage shield is not the points system used for relegation, I agree the relegation points system currently used need tinkering.

As for the permit system, if it didn't get abused by some clubs then it could be used to encourage kids to play football.

[cracka]

F***en hell Cracka, that's enough.

[Look Good In Leather]

What has been the monetary cost to the hfl and hence the clubs and to echunga. Can't have come cheap. I suppose gate takings will have to go up to compensate this. If so thanks a lot all involved for making it more expensive to attend our local games. How is this a great win for hills football.

No cost to the HFL as if a club takes the action Echunga did then they also have to foot the HFL's bill. That by-law WAS written correctly & was pointed out by Uraidla (I think) at the AGM when it was decided by the clubs to fight Echunga's appeal. I wasn't there but apparently Echunga didn't know this & their reps were a bit surprised (to say the least) when this info came to light.

By-Law 24 - If the Hills Football League Inc. incurs legal expenses which in the opinion of the Board of Directors have been incurred by reason of a particular Club or clubs, then the Board of Directors may determine that those fees shall be recoverable from that Club or those clubs and where there is more than one Club involved then in such proportions between those clubs as the Board of Directors may from time to time determine.

As the ruling of the By-Law relating to relegation was found in Echunga's favour, then the responsibility of the legal expenses would be with whom created and approved the by-law which I understand was passed by all clubs. As a result the responsibility should be shared equally across all member clubs (including Echunga).

[always there]

What has been the monetary cost to the hfl and hence the clubs and to echunga. Can't have come cheap. I suppose gate takings will have to go up to compensate this. If so thanks a lot all involved for making it more expensive to attend our local games. How is this a great win for hills football.

No cost to the HFL as if a club takes the action Echunga did then they also have to foot the HFL's bill. That by-law WAS written correctly & was pointed out by Uraidla (I think) at the AGM when it was decided by the clubs to fight Echunga's appeal. I wasn't there but apparently Echunga didn't know this & their reps were a bit surprised (to say the least) when this info came to light.

By-Law 24 - If the Hills Football League Inc. incurs legal expenses which in the opinion of the Board of Directors have been incurred by reason of a particular Club or clubs, then the Board of Directors may determine that those fees shall be recoverable from that Club or those clubs and where there is more than one Club involved then in such proportions between those clubs as the Board of Directors may from time to time determine.

As the ruling of the By-Law relating to relegation was found in Echunga's favour, then the responsibility of the legal expenses would be with whom created and approved the by-law which I understand was passed by all clubs. As a result the responsibility should be shared equally across all member clubs (including Echunga).

If this is the case how much at we talking. How can the clubs afford to cover this?

[Look Good In Leather]

Have to disagree with your thoughts on the most important sides. All junior sides are extremely important for a clubs foundation and future, wonder how your under 13 and 15 feel about your comments. Surely you can't have an A grade without a b grade to back them up. Legs Man and echunga continue to lose friends and gain enemies, 2015 is not going to be a pleasant season it will always have a taint on it.

To clarify my suggested changes to the weighting - as all junior sides are very important!
I am simply saying the U/18 and A grade should have the heaviest weighting e.g
A - 10
B - 3
U/ 18 - 5
U / 14 - 2

It really is unfortunate that some of the members of this forum still cannot see reason and seem intent on bagging Echunga and it's supporters.
The decision made was by a Supreme Court judge and your still questioning it after all parties were heard and afforded AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

There is something obscene about the survival of an entire club in a division hanging on junior results.

Would be much better to determine promotion/relegation on A-Grade results but make it mandatory to field all sides (that includes the U/13s that are excluded from all of this for some reason). All clubs to provide a list of minimum 21 active players in each junior grade at the start of the season and ensure there are hefty fines for forfeits ($1000+), for away games a portion goes to the home club as compensation for lost revenue.

Its not based on junior results, its based on whole of club results.

Which include junior results.

Torrens Valley finished 2 points ahead of Bridgewater in last place, less than one Junior Colts game

[cracka]

There is something obscene about the survival of an entire club in a division hanging on junior results.

Would be much better to determine promotion/relegation on A-Grade results but make it mandatory to field all sides (that includes the U/13s that are excluded from all of this for some reason). All clubs to provide a list of minimum 21 active players in each junior grade at the start of the season and ensure there are hefty fines for forfeits ($1000+), for away games a portion goes to the home club as compensation for lost revenue.

Its not based on junior results, its based on whole of club results.

Which include junior results.

Torrens Valley finished 2 points ahead of Bridgewater in last place, less than one Junior Colts game

True but its not like TV & Bridgewater junior colts played 1 game against each other to determine the relegation outcome, its based on 4 sides across the whole year. If TV had lost 1 more A grade or Bridgy had won 1 more that would also change the result.

[cracka]

What has been the monetary cost to the hfl and hence the clubs and to echunga. Can't have come cheap. I suppose gate takings will have to go up to compensate this. If so thanks a lot all involved for making it more expensive to attend our local games. How is this a great win for hills football.

No cost to the HFL as if a club takes the action Echunga did then they also have to foot the HFL's bill. That by-law WAS written correctly & was pointed out by Uraidla (I think) at the AGM when it was decided by the clubs to fight Echunga's appeal. I wasn't there but apparently Echunga didn't know this & their reps were a bit surprised (to say the least) when this info came to light.

By-Law 24 - If the Hills Football League Inc. incurs legal expenses which in the opinion of the Board of Directors have been incurred by reason of a particular Club or clubs, then the Board of Directors may determine that those fees shall be recoverable from that Club or those clubs and where there is more than one Club involved then in such proportions between those clubs as the Board of Directors may from time to time determine.

As the ruling of the By-Law relating to relegation was found in Echunga's favour, then the responsibility of the legal expenses would be with whom created and approved the by-law which I understand was passed by all clubs. As a result the responsibility should be shared equally across all member clubs (including Echunga).

Don't think it matters on the outcome (that's how I read it but I'm no lawyer), but if Echunga want to create even more hatred towards themselves then they can try & recoup their costs.

[always there]

Yes read it that way too "expenses incurred by reason of a particular club, then the board of directors may determine that those fees shall be recoverable from that club" does it say unless the outcome was in favour of that club?