The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[morell]

No, not at all I don't know what the solution is. I really don't. I am just saying that the AFL teams being successful is more important as that is where the $$$ and people are.

In all reality I cannot see the SANFL surviving - at least not in its current form. Like someone else said, it's now your grassroots club for your local and junior footy and the AFL for your professional footy. In a crowded marketplace where the consumers are time poor, I just don't see what role the SANFL plays...

it might be where the spectator numbers are, but supposedly the sanfl is the pathway for sa kids to make it to the afl. how does it go for your precious league if all the talent has no where to learn here in our state? its like killing the golden goose. short term gain, but then absolutely nothing in future.

its all good though. when the league folds the afl will find somewhere for the reserves teams to play, they will look after the power and crows, **** everyone else as long as they are looked after hey.

The pathways for kids is very broad. You have your junior grassroots club, school footy and auskick.

I think we will see more a more resources poured into grassroots junior development. So your PHOS Camdens, Paynehams, etc as the main vehicle for junior development, then I think there will be an elite junior comp setup, like the TAC cup in Victoria, for the final phase before the AFL.

[morell]

Early signs for 2017 aren’t great, crowds down 8% on the same time last year.

Crowds were steady between 2000 and 2012. 2013 saw a dip (poor weather for a lot of games and perhaps the shadows of the reserves decision played a part), 2014 a small spike (perhaps with Port finally winning some games and some curiosity about the Ravens) but attendances have fallen the past couple of years and will do so again in 2017.

Adelaide Oval's popularity would not have helped the situation either.

Steadily declining media, marketing and publicity also contributing. This despite the inclusion of the professionals with 130K members.

Ravens crowds have dipped from 3432 in 2014 to 2003 so far in 2017. Novelty wore off quickly.

Correct.

Much bigger issues than just the AFL reserves. Tip of the iceberg, to use a tired analogy.

[tipper]

Early signs for 2017 aren’t great, crowds down 8% on the same time last year.

Crowds were steady between 2000 and 2012. 2013 saw a dip (poor weather for a lot of games and perhaps the shadows of the reserves decision played a part), 2014 a small spike (perhaps with Port finally winning some games and some curiosity about the Ravens) but attendances have fallen the past couple of years and will do so again in 2017.

Adelaide Oval's popularity would not have helped the situation either.

Steadily declining media, marketing and publicity also contributing. This despite the inclusion of the professionals with 130K members.

Ravens crowds have dipped from 3432 in 2014 to 2003 so far in 2017. Novelty wore off quickly.

Correct.

Much bigger issues than just the AFL reserves. Tip of the iceberg, to use a tired analogy.

everything listed in saintals post is due to the afl reserves though. the declining attendances, the declining media (any media about the sanfl is now about the reserves sides, and **** all about the other clubs)... their inclusion has caused all of that, despite their promises to the contrary.

if the sanfl is to survive, they need to **** them off quick smart. stand alone as something unique, but its probably too late.

[morell]

Then how do you explain the continued slide in attendances for decade after decade since the 1970s well before the AFL reserves?

It's like arguing with climate change deniers in here honestly.

[tipper]

Then how do you explain the continued slide in attendances for decade after decade since the 1970s well before the AFL reserves?

It's like arguing with climate change deniers in here honestly.

do you really expect me to give you a history of football in south australia? go do your own research.

if anyone is the climate change denier, its you. clear evidence that the reserves sides have had a big impact on crowds, but you are still trying to claim that they arent the reason.....

[tipper]

The pathways for kids is very broad. You have your junior grassroots club, school footy and auskick.

I think we will see more a more resources poured into grassroots junior development. So your PHOS Camdens, Paynehams, etc as the main vehicle for junior development, then I think there will be an elite junior comp setup, like the TAC cup in Victoria, for the final phase before the AFL.

yes and no. to get drafted isnt there an agreement in place that players have to be on an sanfl list? they cant get drafted from the ammos. sanfl is still the final step in the pathway before afl.

seems to have worked well so far. why trash the sanfl, and do things the way victoria do them? just because? is the afl really that threatened by the sanfl getting 3k people to its games that it has to try to diminsh it further? why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

instead, you are planning the dismantling of the entire structure of sa footy, all so it can be further controlled by afl house, without any proven benefits to footy in this state. find a solution for the afl ressies, that doesnt kill off over 100 years of footy in south australia. surely for someone as smart as you it shouldnt be that hard should it?

[morell]

Then how do you explain the continued slide in attendances for decade after decade since the 1970s well before the AFL reserves?

It's like arguing with climate change deniers in here honestly.

do you really expect me to give you a history of football in south australia? go do your own research.

if anyone is the climate change denier, its you. clear evidence that the reserves sides have had a big impact on crowds, but you are still trying to claim that they arent the reason.....

I've said at least three times now that the AFL reserves has impacted crowd numbers. I am really not sure how much clearer I can be.

What I am saying is it really isn't the biggest issue affecting the SANFL. You're buried in minutiae and micro level stuff and ignoring the macro.

[bennymacca]

Whilst they have undoubtedly had a negative impact on the league, the AFL teams have become a lightning rod for every problem in the SANFL. If anything they have hastened the inevitable.

Even though most agree the AFL teams should leave, The SANFL wont dramatically bounce back if/when they do.

[saintal]

Early signs for 2017 aren’t great, crowds down 8% on the same time last year.

Crowds were steady between 2000 and 2012. 2013 saw a dip (poor weather for a lot of games and perhaps the shadows of the reserves decision played a part), 2014 a small spike (perhaps with Port finally winning some games and some curiosity about the Ravens) but attendances have fallen the past couple of years and will do so again in 2017.

Adelaide Oval's popularity would not have helped the situation either.

Steadily declining media, marketing and publicity also contributing. This despite the inclusion of the professionals with 130K members.

Ravens crowds have dipped from 3432 in 2014 to 2003 so far in 2017. Novelty wore off quickly.

Correct.

Much bigger issues than just the AFL reserves. Tip of the iceberg, to use a tired analogy.

Whilst I agree that there are a few more factors at play than simply the AFL reserves, the rather significant decay of the league since their inception indicates it is far more than the tip of the iceberg.

[JK]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

[bennymacca]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

they also discard the sanfl themselves pretty quickly, for the country etc.

[Booney]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

[MW]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

Because country leagues are offering much better money to go play in Unawoopwoop.

[JK]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

Because country leagues are offering much better money to go play in Unawoopwoop.

Yep, understand that, but the AFL has wanted the SANFL to lower its TPP for ages now - Why? It was never going to be at a level to make the SANFL a more attractive proposition than the AFL.

[morell]

The pathways for kids is very broad. You have your junior grassroots club, school footy and auskick.

I think we will see more a more resources poured into grassroots junior development. So your PHOS Camdens, Paynehams, etc as the main vehicle for junior development, then I think there will be an elite junior comp setup, like the TAC cup in Victoria, for the final phase before the AFL.

yes and no. to get drafted isnt there an agreement in place that players have to be on an sanfl list? they cant get drafted from the ammos. sanfl is still the final step in the pathway before afl.

Which could be ripped up by the AFL in about 20 seconds should they decide the structure here isn't working.

seems to have worked well so far. why trash the sanfl, and do things the way victoria do them? just because? is the afl really that threatened by the sanfl getting 3k people to its games that it has to try to diminsh it further? why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

Actually it hasnt. Numbers of SA kids getting drafted to the AFL are decreasing. We just had *6* kids drafted in 2016. Six. Let that sink in.

instead, you are planning the dismantling of the entire structure of sa footy, all so it can be further controlled by afl house, without any proven benefits to footy in this state. find a solution for the afl ressies, that doesnt kill off over 100 years of footy in south australia. surely for someone as smart as you it shouldnt be that hard should it?

Sure.

1. Increase AFL squads to 65, remove rookie list but instead have a list of dedicated reserves players. Players can be upgraded or downgraded.
2. Include mid year AFL top up draft to replace injuries.
3. Fund AFL Reserves - perhaps sell the rights to the games to another TV channel. Ensure branding is consistent.
4. Merge SANFL with AdFL, make current SANFL teams the "Premier League", include promotion and relegation.
5. Remove/merge SANFL junior structure with AdFL junior development.
6. Instill Elite U18s 8 team comp for selected junior talent designed around AFL draft.

#3 is the hard one as others have mentioned.

You can still go and watch the Roosters play at Prospect and sing their song. Your kids can still play for them, but it would be more streamlined/sustainable and designed around ensuring the AFL is the pinnacle and the Crows and Power are able to be competitive with the other sides - not SANFL traditions.

[morell]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

Have you seen the budgets in the regional Vic leagues? Or the Barossa leagues here? Heck even Div 1 players can earn ridiculous coin for the time and commitment involved.

[JK]

why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

This is the bit I've never understood.

Why shouldn't players that exited early from AFL still be able to have a reasonable football career in terms of income, at state league level? As it stands the AFL promises the world to all aspiring kids, but if they don't make it at AFL level, the system just discards them pretty quickly.

Have you seen the budgets in the regional Vic leagues? Or the Barossa leagues here? Heck even Div 1 players can earn ridiculous coin for the time and commitment involved.

So why not SANFL players then? The AFL has been trying reduce the size of our salary cap for years - Why? How does it negatively effect their competition if players are running around on $50k per season in a state league?

[morell]

My suggestion as to the AFL's intentions would be because they have a pretty sound strategic view of where footy is heading this state, and the anchor the SANFL is providing their interests - namely the two AFL licenses.

... and they're right.

[MW]

Country league clubs are much richer than SANFL clubs. The money out there is ridiculous. My father in law used to be a country club president and they have farms set up owned by the club, but run by farmers who support the club. The money they generate from these farms is used to pay the players.

I guess SANFL clubs are trying to do similar with the pokies. Looking at the profit/loss of many clubs, it's not working whatever they are doing.

[JK]

My suggestion as to the AFL's intentions would be because they have a pretty sound strategic view of where footy is heading this state, and the anchor the SANFL is providing their interests - namely the two AFL licenses.

... and they're right.

This problem started well before the SANFL provided a reserves home for the AFL clubs.