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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby whufc » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:16 am

Booney wrote:
whufc wrote:To me the kicking efficiency stat is such as useless one when not given some perspective or surrounded by other stats.

Take a look at the below link of most efficient kicks in the league.....the top 15 includes, Ryan, Howard, Henderson, Ziebell, Alir, Lloyd, Ridley, Stewart, Jonas, Daniel. What do they all have in common, defenders who are generally kicking 15-25m sidewards around the arc looking to open up play. Start getting to the 20-30's and you get even more defenders in the vein of May, Docherty, Jiath, Birchall, Rich.

Each team would have its own players given a license to take on the inboard or riskier kick, whilst others would be told kick long to a pack eg most ruckmen. Certain players would be taking a lot more kicks inside 50 which I think most would agree is the least efficient kick in the game with teams having so many players drop deep.

I think unless you start combining the efficient stat with metres gained, goal scoring involvements, clearances (given they will generally be less efficient) than the stat is so pointless.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/20/ ... n-the-afl/


You mean the position they play impacts how effective their disposals would be? NO WAY!


Not even just the position but the role within the team. Take a look at Carlton.....Docherty has 80+ efficiency and im sure his role is to just spread the ball, retain possesion. On the other hand Saad who plays an almost identical position would definitely be the player with the license to take on the risky kick.

So even comparing midfielder with midfielder isn't really apples for apples as each would be part of a larger system.
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:19 am

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:
whufc wrote:To me the kicking efficiency stat is such as useless one when not given some perspective or surrounded by other stats.

Take a look at the below link of most efficient kicks in the league.....the top 15 includes, Ryan, Howard, Henderson, Ziebell, Alir, Lloyd, Ridley, Stewart, Jonas, Daniel. What do they all have in common, defenders who are generally kicking 15-25m sidewards around the arc looking to open up play.

Each team would have its own players given a license to take on the inboard or riskier kick, whilst others would be told kick long to a pack eg most ruckmen. Certain players would be taking a lot more kicks inside 50 which I think most would agree is the least efficient kick in the game with teams having so many players drop deep.

I think unless you start combining the efficient stat with metres gained, goal scoring involvements, clearances (given they will generally be less efficient) than the stat is so pointless.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/20/ ... n-the-afl/
Honestly... don't bring common sense into the argument, it ruins it for everyone[emoji3]

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:35 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:
whufc wrote:To me the kicking efficiency stat is such as useless one when not given some perspective or surrounded by other stats.

Take a look at the below link of most efficient kicks in the league.....the top 15 includes, Ryan, Howard, Henderson, Ziebell, Alir, Lloyd, Ridley, Stewart, Jonas, Daniel. What do they all have in common, defenders who are generally kicking 15-25m sidewards around the arc looking to open up play.

Each team would have its own players given a license to take on the inboard or riskier kick, whilst others would be told kick long to a pack eg most ruckmen. Certain players would be taking a lot more kicks inside 50 which I think most would agree is the least efficient kick in the game with teams having so many players drop deep.

I think unless you start combining the efficient stat with metres gained, goal scoring involvements, clearances (given they will generally be less efficient) than the stat is so pointless.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/20/ ... n-the-afl/
Honestly... don't bring common sense into the argument, it ruins it for everyone[emoji3]

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:35 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:
whufc wrote:To me the kicking efficiency stat is such as useless one when not given some perspective or surrounded by other stats.

Take a look at the below link of most efficient kicks in the league.....the top 15 includes, Ryan, Howard, Henderson, Ziebell, Alir, Lloyd, Ridley, Stewart, Jonas, Daniel. What do they all have in common, defenders who are generally kicking 15-25m sidewards around the arc looking to open up play.

Each team would have its own players given a license to take on the inboard or riskier kick, whilst others would be told kick long to a pack eg most ruckmen. Certain players would be taking a lot more kicks inside 50 which I think most would agree is the least efficient kick in the game with teams having so many players drop deep.

I think unless you start combining the efficient stat with metres gained, goal scoring involvements, clearances (given they will generally be less efficient) than the stat is so pointless.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/20/ ... n-the-afl/
Honestly... don't bring common sense into the argument, it ruins it for everyone[emoji3]

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Booney » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:42 am

whufc wrote:So even comparing midfielder with midfielder isn't really apples for apples as each would be part of a larger system.


This.

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby MW » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:41 am

When you're taking shots at a Crows player yet players you rate highly from your side are producing worse eff % playing the same position, what's wrong with comparing them to show you? A bit precious there mate.
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Booney » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:58 am

MW wrote:When you're taking shots at a Crows player yet players you rate highly from your side are producing worse eff % playing the same position, what's wrong with comparing them to show you? A bit precious there mate.


*sigh*

If you really want to delve into Keays' career stats then it best we look at the role he played at Brisbane, kicks v handballs, whether possessions were contested v uncontested etc. Daisy brought up disposal by foot, I replied (not sure why, look where we find ourselves) with kicking efficiency stats for this year.

As for "pot shots"....

Booney wrote:Keays? Tries his guts out and given where Adelaide is at they love that and rightly so, all they can demand at the moment is effort but he's a fair dinkum plodder when there's any pressure around, his disposal is ordinary at best. He'll do a job for them for a few years but while he's in the side they're not going too far too fast.


It's quite difficult to have any sort of genuine discussion on this site without having to flop it out, isn't it?

But I'm being precious.
Last edited by Booney on Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:00 am

Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Booney » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:01 am

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe


Such a sad indictment on this place that you might be right.
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Corona Man » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:12 am

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe

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About what?
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:16 am

Corona Man wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe

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About what?
About Booney's desire to have a genuine conversation with Crows fans.


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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby MW » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:21 am

ok fair enough, this place will be boring without differing opinions being called out as dick measuring but anyway :lol:
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Rik E Boy » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:23 am

Booney wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe


Such a sad indictment on this place that you might be right.


Think your Keays assessment is pretty accurate tbh. A few go before him though I reckon. I wish they played like they did against the Pies, we got the 'Melbourne' version of the Crows with the insane pressure rating and Tex banging them through from everywhere. Absolute ambush. It's a big challenge for Nicks to shrink the gap between the Crows' best and worst. But he's not Robinson Crusoe there amongst bottom eight teams.

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:23 am

MW wrote:ok fair enough, this place will be boring without differing opinions being called out as dick measuring but anyway :lol:

I got jealous when you said you can flop.
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Rik E Boy » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:23 am

MW wrote:ok fair enough, this place will be boring without differing opinions being called out as dick measuring but anyway :lol:


A bit chilly for such activities IMO.

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Booney » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:29 am

Rik E Boy wrote:
Booney wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe


Such a sad indictment on this place that you might be right.


Think your Keays assessment is pretty accurate tbh. A few go before him though I reckon. I wish they played like they did against the Pies, we got the 'Melbourne' version of the Crows with the insane pressure rating and Tex banging them through from everywhere. Absolute ambush. It's a big challenge for Nicks to shrink the gap between the Crows' best and worst. But he's not Robinson Crusoe there amongst bottom eight teams.

regards,

REB


But Port Adelaide...

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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby whufc » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:30 am

Rik E Boy wrote:
Booney wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe


Such a sad indictment on this place that you might be right.


Think your Keays assessment is pretty accurate tbh. A few go before him though I reckon. I wish they played like they did against the Pies, we got the 'Melbourne' version of the Crows with the insane pressure rating and Tex banging them through from everywhere. Absolute ambush. It's a big challenge for Nicks to shrink the gap between the Crows' best and worst. But he's not Robinson Crusoe there amongst bottom eight teams.

regards,

REB


I think the other big challenge Nicks has is creating a top 8 forward given a bloke with only a couple of years left is kicking a quarter of their goals.

Maybe though his departure will be a blessing in a sense that it forces them to find other avenues and creates more emphasis on a range of players scoring.
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby MW » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:33 am

Booney wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:
Booney wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:Big Footy is the place for sensible discussion I believe


Such a sad indictment on this place that you might be right.


Think your Keays assessment is pretty accurate tbh. A few go before him though I reckon. I wish they played like they did against the Pies, we got the 'Melbourne' version of the Crows with the insane pressure rating and Tex banging them through from everywhere. Absolute ambush. It's a big challenge for Nicks to shrink the gap between the Crows' best and worst. But he's not Robinson Crusoe there amongst bottom eight teams.

regards,

REB


But Port Adelaide...

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It's ok we now all know the updated site rules to not mention Port players in conversations about other players. :lol:
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Booney » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:35 am

Is that what you've derived from this conversation? Really?
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Re: Adelaide 2021

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:47 am

whufc wrote:I think the other big challenge Nicks has is creating a top 8 forward given a bloke with only a couple of years left is kicking a quarter of their goals.

Maybe though his departure will be a blessing in a sense that it forces them to find other avenues and creates more emphasis on a range of players scoring.


They continually find non-scoring tall forwards, is it supply or talent? I don't The Zeppelin is the answer moving forward, he's in his 4th season and scores at less that a goal a game, Tom Lynch must be in his last season, The Fog has the potential but has only delivered once and struggles to get on the park and Thilthorpe burst on to the scene but has found the going a bit tougher since.

Do they eye off an established proven forward and throw the kitchen sink at him or are there other holes that need filling first?

Unlike most Power supporters, I'd like to see the Crows go well and it's great to see ROB respond to my criticism a few weeks ago by finding some of that 2020 form.
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