bye bye Mr Rudd

[PhilG]

..

[Psyber]

The problem of socialism is that it runs against self-interest, and so people try to cheat. Then one group acting out of their self-interest [disguised as being "fair and right and socially just"] tries to stop another group doing the same and evading the system's controls, and the system's controls have to be reinforced. Then authoritarianism grows as various sub-groups try to impose their version of what is "fair", and eventually one group becomes dominant and we have a dictatorship.

We also need a bureaucracy to run the regulation and finish up with a higher percentage of the workforce than is supportable by tax revenue in the public service - remember most of every $ paid to government employees has to be dragged out of the private sector by taxation and if the burden is big enough the private sector collapses.

Another problem that follows is that the creative people who may drive growth in the economy, eventually decide it is not worth it because the rewards for effort get taken off them to support others they see as just "bludging". So, we get the situation that arose under Keating - interest rates rose, investing in housing stopped paying and prices fell, investing in your business didn't pay so business growth stopped and people bought tax deductions instead, and in that context tax deductable goods rose in price and I sold a German car I had bought second hand for 40% more than I had paid for it four years earlier. I thank Paul for that at least.

I also sold out property investments just before the prices fell and got back into the market later for the recovery, but that was just good judgement and a little luck - I had friends who hung on just a little longer waiting for the recovery on the "J-curve", and got burned, along with the SA and Victorian state Labor governments, who believed it too. One friend found he now owed twice what his property portfolio was worth - so bailing out when you see it coming is not unfair it is just self-preservation, and those who can see it coming will bail out.

Socialism sounds good in theory, but it needs a social group who are not only altruistic, but who agree on what is good for all.

[Snaggletooth Tiger]

The problem of socialism is that it runs against self-interest, and so people try to cheat. Then one group acting out of their self-interest [disguised as being "fair and right and socially just"] tries to stop another group doing the same and evading the system's controls, and the system's controls have to be reinforced. Then authoritarianism grows as various sub-groups try to impose their version of what is "fair", and eventually one group becomes dominant and we have a dictatorship.

Well we ALL know who those 'National Socialist Party' wankers were!
My Grandma fled Austria coz of them pricks!

[PhilG]

..

[mick]

Phil, self interest is part of the mechanism we have for the survival of our species, it has been selected for over millions of years of evolution. Many of our customs and beliefs we have today, only exist under the very thin veneer of civilisation, we are only 5,000 years away from the days when all humans were savages. People are inherently selfish thats why socialism doesn't and never has worked when extensively applied.

[Sojourner]

[quote="lizbeff eaglez] Forget Burke forget Thomson we are untouchable at the moment.
Polls are looking like a landslide if election was tomorow. Polls havent been this good since Keating flogged Hewson on the 1st GST election. Thats massive.
Its coming guys. Labor in power! [/quote]

Really?

In the last thee elections, Liberal have increased their lead each time, yet the polls predicted a Labor win each time, so what has changed?

Labor have to win 16 seats to make it happen, a massive landslide result, yet not this time around!

[BenchedEagle]

[

it will happen. Nostradamus told me in a dream

Hows Abbots form questioningRudd about his version of his dad dying when he was 11 years old. Truly he is scum. I would spit in his face if i met him. he is everything that is bad about Politicians.

[JK]

And what sort of person spits on another individual?

[BenchedEagle]

And what sort of person spits on another individual?

Its an expression of how disgusted i am with him. He is a disgrace. Never spat a loogie in anger in my life. i would make an exception for him.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Hows Abbots form questioningRudd about his version of his dad dying when he was 11 years old. :

I've missed all that. What happened. (without the emotion)

[PhilG]

..

[mick]

Phil, self interest is part of the mechanism we have for the survival of our species, it has been selected for over millions of years of evolution. Many of our customs and beliefs we have today, only exist under the very thin veneer of civilisation, we are only 5,000 years away from the days when all humans were savages. People are inherently selfish thats why socialism doesn't and never has worked when extensively applied.

A good strong government would make the effort to change that. Self interest contributes to poverty. There are organisations that commit to eliminating poverty, but they are doomed to failure as long as it's possible for the rich to absolutely bury the poor. We're going back to the 19th century where the distance between two classes was huge.

Is that a good thing?

Anyone who says it is needs a reality check.

For the sake of world peace, it HAS to change. The War on Terror is all about self interest - on both sides. That's why it can't be won by bullying tactics like the US think it can be. Providing the US style of freedom is open slather for self interest and the putting down of the weak. It's why I hate the US.

Sounds like you've given up on changing it.

No Phil I'm a realist, no matter how many organisations exist you won't change human behaviour that has been selected for over thousands of years. I'm a biologist, I believe in Darwinism ( I believe Charles Darwin is perhaps the most influential person to live in the 19th century) you cannot change inate human behaviour, that is intertwined with survival.

[Snaggletooth Tiger]

And what sort of person spits on another individual?

Former West Coast Eagles player Chris Lewis!

[mick]

And what sort of person spits on another individual?

Former West Coast Eagles player Chris Lewis!

Obviously a Labor voter

[PhilG]

..

[Wedgie]

So you believe we can never ever have world peace then?

No thanks.

The real reality is that people need to be punished for self interest that hurts others. If the punishment is appropriate - it'll change. There are other ways to engage in "inate human behaviour" and not hurt others. You seem the think that's impossible.

It's not.

Eliminate religion and you're well on your way, can't see that happening for a while though.

[Magpiespower]

World peace?

The world has NEVER been at peace!

[mick]

Phil, self interest is part of the mechanism we have for the survival of our species, it has been selected for over millions of years of evolution. Many of our customs and beliefs we have today, only exist under the very thin veneer of civilisation, we are only 5,000 years away from the days when all humans were savages. People are inherently selfish thats why socialism doesn't and never has worked when extensively applied.

A good strong government would make the effort to change that. Self interest contributes to poverty. There are organisations that commit to eliminating poverty, but they are doomed to failure as long as it's possible for the rich to absolutely bury the poor. We're going back to the 19th century where the distance between two classes was huge.

Is that a good thing?

Anyone who says it is needs a reality check.

For the sake of world peace, it HAS to change. The War on Terror is all about self interest - on both sides. That's why it can't be won by bullying tactics like the US think it can be. Providing the US style of freedom is open slather for self interest and the putting down of the weak. It's why I hate the US.

Sounds like you've given up on changing it.

No Phil I'm a realist, no matter how many organisations exist you won't change human behaviour that has been selected for over thousands of years. I'm a biologist, I believe in Darwinism ( I believe Charles Darwin is perhaps the most influential person to live in the 19th century) you cannot change inate human behaviour, that is intertwined with survival.

So you believe we can never ever have world peace then?

No thanks.

The real reality is that people need to be punished for self interest that hurts others. If the punishment is appropriate - it'll change. There are other ways to engage in "inate human behaviour" and not hurt others. You seem the think that's impossible.

It's not.

Phil I admire your idealism, but yes I believe world peace is impossible, one of the reasons humans dominate this planet is because we are agressive, it's part of being human and can't be educated away. When the last of our species dies that's when we'll have world peace.

[mick]

So you believe we can never ever have world peace then?

No thanks.

The real reality is that people need to be punished for self interest that hurts others. If the punishment is appropriate - it'll change. There are other ways to engage in "inate human behaviour" and not hurt others. You seem the think that's impossible.

It's not.

Eliminate religion and you're well on your way, can't see that happening for a while though.

Religion is used to control people, I was bought up in a religious family, but I've no time for religion of any type. I've met some wondeful religious people and others who would be at home in an SS Sturmbahnfurher's uniform.

[JK]

So you believe we can never ever have world peace then?

No thanks.

The real reality is that people need to be punished for self interest that hurts others. If the punishment is appropriate - it'll change. There are other ways to engage in "inate human behaviour" and not hurt others. You seem the think that's impossible.

It's not.

Eliminate religion and you're well on your way, can't see that happening for a while though.

Religion is used to control people, I was bought up in a religious family, but I've no time for religion of any type. I've met some wondeful religious people and others who would be at home in an SS Sturmbahnfurher's uniform.

Exactly, again it comes back to the individual, not race, religion etc ... I know it's heading off topic a little but I agree with Mick in his idea of the only time World Peace can be achieved (unfortunately).