Sub Junior Umpiring - Carnival Cancelled

[Dutchy]

Disappointing, while they obviously have a problem, its crap that they penalise the kids. SFL have to take some responsibility, have a meeting at the beginning of the season to lay down the law and then monitor it during the year.

As I said penalise the non confirming clubs and let the others play.

How the hell am I going to tell the kids there is no carnival when they have been hanging out for it all year?

Makes you wonder if it is worth volunteering your time when operating in a league like this.

[MatteeG]

Makes you wonder if it is worth volunteering your time when operating in a league like this.

Hate to think how many others like yourself are thinking the same thing Dutchy! Extremely disappointing decision, considering how reluctant the SFL usually is to make any big decisions.

[vics01]

Not always a fan of SFL decisions, however in this case I have to agree. Travelling around mini league games this year with a young son and a mate who umpire I have been appalled by the behaviour of parents, coaches and supporters. Whether we have games for points or not, mini football is about teaching the basics of our great game not thrashing other kids into submission which does nothing to develop the kids who are winning or the kids getting thrashed. It appears that some parents and coaches are living out their failed careers through the kids.

Example: A unnamed club v Hackham few weeks ago. unnamed club 18 players on field Hackham 16 on field. Hackham no score unnamed plenty. Coach rather than teaching structure to unnamed kids was all about kicking as many goals as possible. nearly all kids in forward 50. Maybe if unnamed had handed a few kids over unamed may be better for it by learning about finding a man, having a man behind the ball etc.
Let alone the coach smoking on the bench, parents screaming for more goals free doesn't go their eway umpire is at fault. What parents need to remember is that the umpires are learning the game with very minimal supervision.

Another Unnamed club coach in conversation with junior umpires coach. "we should get all the senior umpires, we should not have kids who don't know what they are doing"

Where does this person think the next generation of umpire will come from?

No club is immune from bad behaviour of parents and officials including mine.

As SFL have said Mini's is supposed to be about fun and learning not winning at all costs.

[Dutchy]

Agree Vics, hence why there should be a meeting of all coaches, officials & umpires at the beginning of the season, set it in stone right at the start.

It should be fun, and that was the carnival is about, win/lose or draw its a great day out for all kids, clubs and families. And the SFL have taken it away. Maybe they should have cancelled a round first to try and get the point across.

[Straight Line]

Have the SFL pulled the mini's carnival? If so I say throw the offending club/clubs out of the carnival and let everybody else have a great day.

[Dutchy]

Would only leave 5 clubs sadly. SFL advise that 9 of the 14 clubs have had to front them over incidents this year.

[vics01]

Would suggest no club is innocent only that the rest have not been reported yet.

Overall behaviour is disgusting. Parents and coaches need to get a grip and remember the games is about the kids not the adults.

Every club with regard to Mini's is living in a glass house.

[Dutchy]

Bit rich putting all clubs in the same boat

[Straight Line]

Would only leave 5 clubs sadly. SFL advise that 9 of the 14 clubs have had to front them over incidents this year.

A 5 clubs carnival it is

[vics01]

I reckon I might tell my sons and their mates to goto Flaggies. No glass house over there.

No club is immune from stupid parental behaviour.

[afc9798]

I reckon I might tell my sons and their mates to goto Flaggies. No glass house over there.

No club is immune from stupid parental behaviour.

You're right they aren't, but this decision is stupid and very short sighted by the SFL.

This is the wrong way to deal with the issues and will have the polar opposite result to what they want. The SFL will be inundated with irate volunteers who do their best to run a good sub junior operation as the SFL rewards their involvement by taking away a favourite event for the kids and their coaches.

If the SFL had the balls, they would detail the exact incidents, the clubs involved and the individual found guilty of the behaviour (after investigation of course). Keeping it in house just punishes all for the acts of some. Those individuals should then be banned from the carnival, not the whole club.

This is massively disappointing over reaction and poorly executed.

[WHEELS&DEALS]

Not always a fan of SFL decisions, however in this case I have to agree. Travelling around mini league games this year with a young son and a mate who umpire I have been appalled by the behaviour of parents, coaches and supporters. Whether we have games for points or not, mini football is about teaching the basics of our great game not thrashing other kids into submission which does nothing to develop the kids who are winning or the kids getting thrashed. It appears that some parents and coaches are living out their failed careers through the kids.

Example: A unnamed club v Hackham few weeks ago. unnamed club 18 players on field Hackham 16 on field. Hackham no score unnamed plenty. Coach rather than teaching structure to unnamed kids was all about kicking as many goals as possible. nearly all kids in forward 50. Maybe if unnamed had handed a few kids over unamed may be better for it by learning about finding a man, having a man behind the ball etc.
Let alone the coach smoking on the bench, parents screaming for more goals free doesn't go their eway umpire is at fault. What parents need to remember is that the umpires are learning the game with very minimal supervision.

Another Unnamed club coach in conversation with junior umpires coach. "we should get all the senior umpires, we should not have kids who don't know what they are doing"

Where does this person think the next generation of umpire will come from?

No club is immune from bad behaviour of parents and officials including mine.

As SFL have said Mini's is supposed to be about fun and learning not winning at all costs.

Not too many times on here that I agree with vics but on this case I do. The SFL called a meeting back in June that most clubs went to and spoke about the problems at hand. By the sound of it things haven't gotten any better and canceling the carnival was always on the cards. I will be honset, I have never been a fan of the carnival for the reason that the SFL promote minis as a learning and fun comp all year and then at the end of the season it becomes all about winning a carnival. I think that under 10's up should play for premierships points and have a final series at the end of the season. Only my opinion but I think the SFL have made the right move and I now people might think twice before doing something stupid.

[shoe boy]

Another Unnamed club coach in conversation with junior umpires coach. "we should get all the senior umpires, we should not have kids who don't know what they are doing"

[b]Where does this person think the next generation of umpire will come from?[/b]No club is immune from bad behaviour of parents and officials including mine.

As SFL have said Mini's is supposed to be about fun and learning not winning at all costs.[/quote]

Agree Vics, and the win at all costs is highlighted more so at the carnival where SOME clubs with dual sides all of a sudden select a strong and lesser side just for the carnival

Am sure most kids will not notice any difference as long as they catch up with team mates on Sun morning and have a kick and catch,but am sure some coaches have lost that opportunity of the HOLY GRAIL

[Snaparazzi]

Very disappointing to hear about the cancellation, some good points raised and the right way to handle this is to deal with the clubs/individuals at hand rather than penalize the kids, carnival days are great, minimum 3 games and the kids have a great time, my clubs U/10's have been on the receiving end of some 10+ goal loses recently but the kids are still smiling and enjoying themselves at the end of the game, they love it, win/lose or draw, they are all going to be bitterly disappointed they won't get to play in the carnival and to be honest wouldn't have been going there with a win at all cost attitude, it's not something that is discussed, not sure about other coaches but it's hard enough to get them to focus on a couple basics like manning up etc let alone trying to bring a win at all cost attitude to the table.

Offenders SHould be punished by the clubs either financially (best deterant) as well as suspension from games, take the hard line and I'm certain this will limit incidents rather than pull the carnival in what seems to be a knee jerk reaction.

[Dutchy]

Very disappointing to hear about the cancellation, some good points raised and the right way to handle this is to deal with the clubs/individuals at hand rather than penalize the kids, carnival days are great, minimum 3 games and the kids have a great time, my clubs U/10's have been on the receiving end of some 10+ goal loses recently but the kids are still smiling and enjoying themselves at the end of the game, they love it, win/lose or draw, they are all going to be bitterly disappointed they won't get to play in the carnival and to be honest wouldn't have been going there with a win at all cost attitude, it's not something that is discussed, not sure about other coaches but it's hard enough to get them to focus on a couple basics like manning up etc let alone trying to bring a win at all cost attitude to the table.

Offenders SHould be punished by the clubs either financially (best deterant) as well as suspension from games, take the hard line and I'm certain this will limit incidents rather than pull the carnival in what seems to be a knee jerk reaction.

Well said, the kids love playing in a carnival, its like a footy festival for them. I would be surprised if many clubs go into it with an aim to win the day.

The opposition coaches I have dealt with this season in under 10's have all been great and in the position for the right reasons. I suspect maybe the main problem is parents which is really hard to control unless you have someone in each part of the ground.

For people to say the coaches have a win at all costs attitude is just wrong from what I have experienced.

My lad was shattered last night when I told him.

Do we really think that not having the carnival will hurt the individuals that have transgressed this year? If they act like that Im guessing they wouldnt give a shit.

[Waterboy]

Very disappointing to hear about the cancellation, some good points raised and the right way to handle this is to deal with the clubs/individuals at hand rather than penalize the kids, carnival days are great, minimum 3 games and the kids have a great time, my clubs U/10's have been on the receiving end of some 10+ goal loses recently but the kids are still smiling and enjoying themselves at the end of the game, they love it, win/lose or draw, they are all going to be bitterly disappointed they won't get to play in the carnival and to be honest wouldn't have been going there with a win at all cost attitude, it's not something that is discussed, not sure about other coaches but it's hard enough to get them to focus on a couple basics like manning up etc let alone trying to bring a win at all cost attitude to the table.

Offenders SHould be punished by the clubs either financially (best deterant) as well as suspension from games, take the hard line and I'm certain this will limit incidents rather than pull the carnival in what seems to be a knee jerk reaction.

Well said, the kids love playing in a carnival, its like a footy festival for them. I would be surprised if many clubs go into it with an aim to win the day.

The opposition coaches I have dealt with this season in under 10's have all been great and in the position for the right reasons. I suspect maybe the main problem is parents which is really hard to control unless you have someone in each part of the ground.

For people to say the coaches have a win at all costs attitude is just wrong from what I have experienced.

My lad was shattered last night when I told him.

Do we really think that not having the carnival will hurt the individuals that have transgressed this year? If they act like that Im guessing they wouldnt give a shit.

Obviously Lonsdale are very disappointed with the decision, and I would imagine so are Hackham. It was a great day to showcase the organisation abilities of some of the smaller clubs in the league.

As it was explained to us by the SFL delegate the cancellation is more about protecting the players and umpires. Despite the meeting and all clubs being told the problems and the need for things to get better it just hasn't happened. There are still club OFFICIALS abusing opposition players and young umpires. How hard are clubs working to get the message to parents and spectators? I know this can be tough when a lot of parents treat practice night as a free babysitting service and show up for the games with no idea what was said at practice nights or at presentations.

Certainly amongst the groups that Lonsdale played in at the carnival the focus was on our 3 games, not on the trophy. Walking around the ovals though it was a different atmosphere amongst the teams in the stronger groups. A single incident at the carnival stood out 2 years ago, it seems there have been multiple incidents this year at the regular games involving coaches and runners, as well as parents. Add in the chance at the trophy and how much worse could it be on the day.

At the end of the day Lonsdale are one of the 9 teams who have had issues this year. We still would have liked the chance to host a carnival for those 5 clubs who have been better than the rest this year, but have to understand that the kid's (players and umpires) welfare comes first.

[afc9798]

I think it is wrong to assume that the 5 clubs not called before the SFL are somehow squeaky clean. It is more likely that the incidents have either not been reported or have been resolved between clubs and umpires. My kids play at a different side than is listed as my team and I can state that the club has put out many communications regarding the issues, reinforced these at the start of the year, had every coach and manger attend the SFL meeting and then re-communicated that information to parents.

They were taken before the tribunal or panel and the issue filed against the coach was not upheld, but he feels extremely let down by the system and the fact that one of the parents probably was the perpetrator for the act which was blamed on him. Can you hold a club responsible for an individual's actions? I would say no, unless you don't act on the issues when they occur.

[tigerpie]

All clubs should have a code of conduct, in writing, sent home for the parents/caregivers at the start of the season.

This is to be signed by the player and parent/caregiver and delivered back to their coach, to be forwarded to the club secretary. This acknowledges that all parties have read and understood the document and the consequences of breaking the code.
Now this isnt going to stamp out poor parent behavior, but, the clubs can at least say they have done everything in their power to educate all party's concerned. Any club who is not doing this should do so or face a penalty.

The other fallout from this is that the carnival gives an opportunity for all club development people at the elite level in the SFL zone to attend for talent identification purposes (u13 development squads) and prospective state schoolboys reps in the zone.
Its a real pity for the players and umpires that it has come to this all because of the actions of a minority and i would hope all clubs are getting their house in order now. Before you know it these parents will be misbehaving at u14 level and up, so act now so the kids dont get penalised again!

The End.

[asert]

If its an umpiring thing can't we just get each club to supply one adult to umpire and the carnival can still go ahead. Get each umpire to do a neutral game and the kids aren't the ones who suffer. After all they aren't the ones who are the problem

[afc9798]

If its an umpiring thing can't we just get each club to supply one adult to umpire and the carnival can still go ahead. Get each umpire to do a neutral game and the kids aren't the ones who suffer. After all they aren't the ones who are the problem

Absolutely, the whole decision is wrong on so many levels and it will not have the effect of improving the behaviour of a minority, it just penalises the majority, and for no gain to the SFL other than wiping the issue off their plate. On the surface it may look like they are being strong and took the hard decision, but in reality they have taken the easy decision, rather than deal with the issues professionally and with due process. Hearing a lot of discontent from parents, which will undoubtedly be taken out on the co-ordinators rather than the league and will ultimately impact playing numbers.