If you have a talented kid who wants to play AFL leave SA.

[am Bays]

And any kid that plays in the U/15 country carnival in July and the U/17 country carnival in April get looked at by every club....

[Jar Man Out]

The QLD and NSW kids aren't getting a free ride onto the list. They're not being put on a senior AFL list at 15. They've still gotta be good enough at 18 or they won't get that chance.

And that is the argument in a nut shell FFS they aren't even on a Rookie list merely "alligned" to an AFL club There to get exposed to the AFL environemt and opportunity to periodically train at a better level compared to the "training" they might normally do at the North Shore Bombers for argument sake!!! In much the same way JAmes Selalr trained at Adelaide last year as part of his AIS/AFL scholarship.

These scholarships come with no guarabntee to get drafted.

In no way are they guaranteed an AFL spot any more than a kid playing U/17s footy at Norwood. Trust me the Div 2 sides are envious of teh consistant high level competition teh SA, WA and VIC kids are exposed to - hence why in the NT we used to send some kids down to Adelaide to train and play U/19s with SANFL clubs.

For those of you that have been following the Div 2 U/16s and U/18 champinships sides closely over the past few years the crop of QLD U/18s that went though last year have been a cut above the NT, TAS and NSW/ACT over that period as U/16s and U/18s. There are a couple of guns earmaked about three years ago as certainties to be drafted.

They were drafted becasue of their efforts agaisnt TAC sides over the last two years and in the combined Div 2 vs TAC Cup side game that is held each year in GF week that gives the best of both comps (Div 2 teams and the best of the TAC cup kids not palying in teh GF) a final hit out in front of all the talent managers from each AFL club. They weren't drafted becasue of where they were lived they were drafted becasue oer the last three years those kids proved they could play....

[Jar Man Out]

The QLD and NSW kids aren't getting a free ride onto the list. They're not being put on a senior AFL list at 15. They've still gotta be good enough at 18 or they won't get that chance.

And that is the argument in a nut shell FFS they aren't even on a Rookie list merely "alligned" to an AFL club There to get exposed to the AFL environemt and opportunity to periodically train at a better level compared to the "training" they might normally do at the North Shore Bombers for argument sake!!! In much the same way JAmes Selalr trained at Adelaide last year as part of his AIS/AFL scholarship.

These scholarships come with no guarabntee to get drafted.

In no way are they guaranteed an AFL spot any more than a kid playing U/17s footy at Norwood. Trust me the Div 2 sides are envious of teh consistant high level competition teh SA, WA and VIC kids are exposed to - hence why in the NT we used to send some kids down to Adelaide to train and play U/19s with SANFL clubs.

For those of you that have been following the Div 2 U/16s and U/18 champinships sides closely over the past few years the crop of QLD U/18s that went though last year have been a cut above the NT, TAS and NSW/ACT over that period as U/16s and U/18s. There are a couple of guns earmaked about three years ago as certainties to be drafted.

They were drafted becasue of their efforts agaisnt TAC sides over the last two years and in the combined Div 2 vs TAC Cup side game that is held each year in GF week that gives the best of both comps (Div 2 teams and the best of the TAC cup kids not palying in teh GF) a final hit out in front of all the talent managers from each AFL club. They weren't drafted becasue of where they were lived they were drafted becasue oer the last three years those kids proved they could play....

[Jar Man Out]

The QLD and NSW kids aren't getting a free ride onto the list. They're not being put on a senior AFL list at 15. They've still gotta be good enough at 18 or they won't get that chance.

And that is the argument in a nut shell FFS they aren't even on a Rookie list merely "alligned" to an AFL club There to get exposed to the AFL environemt and opportunity to periodically train at a better level compared to the "training" they might normally do at the North Shore Bombers for argument sake!!! In much the same way JAmes Selalr trained at Adelaide last year as part of his AIS/AFL scholarship.

These scholarships come with no guarabntee to get drafted.

In no way are they guaranteed an AFL spot any more than a kid playing U/17s footy at Norwood. Trust me the Div 2 sides are envious of teh consistant high level competition teh SA, WA and VIC kids are exposed to - hence why in the NT we used to send some kids down to Adelaide to train and play U/19s with SANFL clubs.

For those of you that have been following the Div 2 U/16s and U/18 champinships sides closely over the past few years the crop of QLD U/18s that went though last year have been a cut above the NT, TAS and NSW/ACT over that period as U/16s and U/18s. There are a couple of guns earmaked about three years ago as certainties to be drafted.

They were drafted becasue of their efforts agaisnt TAC sides over the last two years and in the combined Div 2 vs TAC Cup side game that is held each year in GF week that gives the best of both comps (Div 2 teams and the best of the TAC cup kids not palying in teh GF) a final hit out in front of all the talent managers from each AFL club. They weren't drafted becasue of where they were lived they were drafted becasue oer the last three years those kids proved they could play....

bravo. i knew you couldnt resist. brilliant points tas. the scholarships arent exactly the same as a rookie list placing. cant pull the wool over your eyes.

a rookie list is available to anyone all over aus at the age of 17 1/2 . it means you have an option of training with the elite for a period of 24 months on an afl list. During that time the club has the option to elevate the rookie to their senior list if a place is available.

where a scholarship is only available for NSW and QLD kids(will be available for qld kids next year as confirmed by SANFL) between 15- 17 y.o. that provides access to training with the elite afl clubs. with the option of a 24 month stay on an afl clubs list which it appears only after that time you be elevated to senior list.

to clarify differences . rookie list for everyone all over oz over 17 1/2 and you can be elevated to senior list at anytime. scholarship only available for 15- 17 for kids in nsw and qld only. only at the end of 24 months it appears you can be elevated.

or to put it another way. the rookie list before the rookie list for nsw and qld kids only.I Would like to state never claimed they have a guaranteed spot just access to an alf list our kids do not have . I have also asked why/how is this possible ??? still yet to receive an answer.

You also claim Tas this is much the same as JAmes Sellar training ith the crows under a AIS scholarship. I agree with you on this point with one essential difference. Absolutely no option whatsoever for James Sellar to be elevated to adelaides list.

which is essentially my complaint.

the reason james doesnt get that option tas and i have had this confirmed with the head of the the sanfl is because james lives in a state where football has always been traditionally played.

i dont believe this is fair on james or any sa kid for that fact. infact i believe it is blatant discrimination.

I also agree with the strength of the QLD U18 team last year. I agree they were alot better than their div 2 opponents. But what about their div 1 opponents like the SA boys. ???? So a div 2 side got more kids drafted , Than a div 1 side. Isnt that very interesting.

Especially considering how many people can assure me afl selectors rate sa juniors higher than qld.

[Jar Man Out]

Unfortunately it makes no difference if our kids are more developed anymore. cos kids from NSW and Qld do not need to be drafted anymore.

1. Queensland is not in the scholarship program. All kids from Qld have to be drafted. Trying to bring Qld (relatively strong comp, significant number of kids drafted, no scholarship scheme) with NSW (fairly weak comp, small number of kids drafted, scholarship scheme) just shows you've got it confused. In fact, those parts of NSW (Wagga/Riverina area) where Aussie rules is historically strong are not even eligible for scholarships.
2. Just in case you're not on top of the rules of this thing: the kids are entered onto a scholarship program from 14-17 yoa. In the draft where they reach draftable age, the scholarship club has first dibs on them. If they pass (and, you mark my words, many will) they go into the general draft the same as anyone else. So why, apart from being masochists trying to build a weak list, would they pick their NSW scholarship player over a 'more developed' SA kid?

32 school kids get free entry onto afl lists bypassing the draft. While our more developed footballers dont. How Is that fair.

They don't get free entry onto AFL lists. See above. Your concern seems to be that your 'more developed' footballers won't go where you want, rather than not getting drafted. See below.

also dont forget more qld than sa kids drafted last year. not bad considering our kids are way more developed . not adding up is it pag.

You're running yourself in circles here. The Qld kids were drafted on the open market, right? That level playing field that you say you want so badly? So what exactly is your problem with large numbers of Queensland boys, none of whom had anything to do with the scholarship scheme, being drafted?

Can also point out none of what you guys have said has still justified this blatant discrimination to our junior talent at all. Just because NSW and QLD football arent as set up than SA should not equate to their juniors get a free ride into the AFL while ours get lumped in with the rest. Give them a scholarship if they need it. But free access to afl list can not be allowed.

You've finally acknowledged the reason behind the scholarship scheme. And the reason why the title of this thread is ridiculous. If your child wants to play Aussie rules professionally, you would accelerate their development by moving them to a non-Aussie rules state where the standard of competition, infrastructure and coaching are all inferior to your home state? Shyeah right.

It would make about as much sense for you, if your child is an Aussie rules prodigy, to move to South Africa... because the AFL is spending money there, you'll get access to special programs not available in Australia, and you can cheat your way onto a list by being listed as an international rookie. I can hear the rush of future Ross Gibbses buying their ticket to Capetown now.

I am not asking for special treatment to our kids just a level playing field. At the end of the day should we really have to ask.

let me give you a scenario.

bryce gibbs at 15 has some talent. crows give him a scholarship and in two years can place him on their senior list . not loose a clearly talented junior to the pool and hope for the best.

but obviously the SANFl has got it set up perfectly.

And you've finally acknowledged the real reason behind your objection. Not that not enough SA players wind up on AFL lists (just look at the numbers over the years; they do fine). Rather that you can't kep them tied to SA clubs. Well, that's the 'level playing field', where all 16 clubs have license to roam all over Australia, for ya. If you're opposed to that, fine: but in that case you should be posting 'why the draft is a crock', and not 'everyone move your kids to NSW'.

Incidentally, in case you care, the SANFL does have a number of development schemes for talented young players. Details of the one for under 18s is here. And kids who come up through SA development programs and show more ability and potential at 18yoa, will still get drafted every time over NSW scholarship kids who show less. NSW would be rapt to have 50% of SA's draft numbers.

Point 1. WRONG. Qld do qualify for the programme next year according to the head of junior football at the SANFL.

Point 2. What if they dont pass ??? the kids has bypassed the draft deny it all you want SimonH.

Point 3 . I have raised the QLD got more of their kids drafted last year on an open market . For those people who have the perception for some reason that SA juniors are rated higher by afl talent scouts than qld. This fact contradicts Sa juniors are rated higher. Ill also pose the question Simon if more of their kids are being drafted than ours on that open market. Why do they need these scholarships ???
can someone please answer this question ???

Point 4, Simon if my kid shows talent and is 14. Why wouldnt I move to QLD and NSW because within 12 months the kid can have access to an afl list. Where is he stays is SA he only has access in 3 and a half years time. It is a distinct advantage.

Point 5. Dont particularly care about Bryce Gibbs infact i agree he shouldnt be father/son listed to the crows. as ross never played for them. I just want our kids to have the same oppurtunity as everyone else and unfortunately it isnt a level playing field.

[Macca19]

I dont have a huge problem with it. Its about promoting our game in states that arent big Footy states. Gives these kids something to aim at. The facts are there are many more resources available to South Australian kids to help them get drafted than NSW kids.

Yes Queensland had more draftees last year than SA did. So what? Its a one year spike. This year they might have zero.

I remember back in 2001, the year of the last 'superdraft', SA only had 2 draftees: Jarrad Wright and Brian Harris. Everyone spelt gloom and doom for our state. 'The best draft even and we only had 2 kids drafted' etc. The next year we had 6 kids drafted in the top 20.

Though it isnt cyclical, some years you have a very very good group of juniors coming through, the next year they might not be as good.

[doggies4eva]

SA has about 10% of the national poulation and has more than 10% representation (based on state of origin) in the AFL so what's the problem?

[SimonH]

Don't know why I'm bothering, but y'know, just for a giggle.

Point 1. WRONG. Qld do qualify for the programme next year according to the head of junior football at the SANFL.

Well, actually, even on your version I'm right. Sorry, RIGHT: i.e. Queensland is not part of the scholarship program. If AFL clubs are allowed to offer scholarships to Queenslanders in 2008, under the same conditions as NSW kids now, we can have a debate about Queensland then. For the moment: you are from (parts of) NSW, or there is no such thing as an AFL scholarship program.

Point 2. What if they dont pass ??? the kids has bypassed the draft deny it all you want SimonH.

If they don't pass, they wind up on an AFL list because the club has decided that the player is of a higher quality than they will be able to get at the back end of the draft. Or to put it in plain English: because they would have drafted them anyway. Funny, don't actually remember denying it. Care to point out where I did?

Point 3 . I have raised the QLD got more of their kids drafted last year on an open market . For those people who have the perception for some reason that SA juniors are rated higher by afl talent scouts than qld. This fact contradicts Sa juniors are rated higher. Ill also pose the question Simon if more of their kids are being drafted than ours on that open market. Why do they need these scholarships ???
can someone please answer this question ???

More of 'their' kids are not being drafted than our kids. Who is 'they'? NSW kids (and kids only from parts of NSW, at that). See my earlier post. You are confusing yourself, and trying to boost your weak argument, by confusing the situation in NSW with Qld, where they are very different. If a Queensland program started with similar conditions, I would seriously doubt the merit of it. In fact, it would undercut the point of the NSW one because clubs would roundly ignore the slim pickings available in NSW in their stampede to get to Queensland. But I don't think that a statement blurted out by one official in fear for his life after being buttonholed by you in a rage, is evidence that makes me convinced that such a program is actually coming. Feel free to present me with concrete evidence to the contrary. There are a huge number of detailed references on official websites to the NSW scholarship program (see the Brisbane Lions' most recent NSW signing here), so if the Queensland one is coming in a few months, it's amazing that everyone including the Blions is keeping so quiet about it.

Point 4, Simon if my kid shows talent and is 14. Why wouldnt I move to QLD and NSW because within 12 months the kid can have access to an afl list. Where is he stays is SA he only has access in 3 and a half years time. It is a distinct advantage.

Forget Queensland. See above. If your kid is 14, talented at Aussie rules and wants to pursue it as a career, and you move to NSW for the specific purpose of advancing his career, you are mentally ill and in need of some treatment. See my earlier post as to why. The phrase 'access to an AFL list' that you keep using is meaningless. You're either on an AFL list or not. These kids are not on an AFL list until they are chosen by a club at the same age, and at the same time, as the South Australian kids you're talking about. And guess what? They won't be chosen if they're not better than the competition. This is the fundamental point that you keep trying to dance around by using meaningless terms like 'access to lists'.

Point 5. Dont particularly care about Bryce Gibbs infact i agree he shouldnt be father/son listed to the crows. as ross never played for them. I just want our kids to have the same oppurtunity as everyone else and unfortunately it isnt a level playing field.

Until NSW (population 6 million) gets even half of the draftees each year that SA (population 1.3 million) does, cry me a river.

[Jar Man Out]

Don't know why I'm bothering, but y'know, just for a giggle.

Point 1. WRONG. Qld do qualify for the programme next year according to the head of junior football at the SANFL.

Well, actually, even on your version I'm right. Sorry, RIGHT: i.e. Queensland is not part of the scholarship program. If AFL clubs are allowed to offer scholarships to Queenslanders in 2008, under the same conditions as NSW kids now, we can have a debate about Queensland then. For the moment: you are from (parts of) NSW, or there is no such thing as an AFL scholarship program.

Point 2. What if they dont pass ??? the kids has bypassed the draft deny it all you want SimonH.

If they don't pass, they wind up on an AFL list because the club has decided that the player is of a higher quality than they will be able to get at the back end of the draft. Or to put it in plain English: because they would have drafted them anyway. Funny, don't actually remember denying it. Care to point out where I did?

Point 3 . I have raised the QLD got more of their kids drafted last year on an open market . For those people who have the perception for some reason that SA juniors are rated higher by afl talent scouts than qld. This fact contradicts Sa juniors are rated higher. Ill also pose the question Simon if more of their kids are being drafted than ours on that open market. Why do they need these scholarships ???
can someone please answer this question ???

More of 'their' kids are not being drafted than our kids. Who is 'they'? NSW kids (and kids only from parts of NSW, at that). See my earlier post. You are confusing yourself, and trying to boost your weak argument, by confusing the situation in NSW with Qld, where they are very different. If a Queensland program started with similar conditions, I would seriously doubt the merit of it. In fact, it would undercut the point of the NSW one because clubs would roundly ignore the slim pickings available in NSW in their stampede to get to Queensland. But I don't think that a statement blurted out by one official in fear for his life after being buttonholed by you in a rage, is evidence that makes me convinced that such a program is actually coming. Feel free to present me with concrete evidence to the contrary. There are a huge number of detailed references on official websites to the NSW scholarship program (see the Brisbane Lions' most recent NSW signing here), so if the Queensland one is coming in a few months, it's amazing that everyone including the Blions is keeping so quiet about it.

Point 4, Simon if my kid shows talent and is 14. Why wouldnt I move to QLD and NSW because within 12 months the kid can have access to an afl list. Where is he stays is SA he only has access in 3 and a half years time. It is a distinct advantage.

Forget Queensland. See above. If your kid is 14, talented at Aussie rules and wants to pursue it as a career, and you move to NSW for the specific purpose of advancing his career, you are mentally ill and in need of some treatment. See my earlier post as to why. The phrase 'access to an AFL list' that you keep using is meaningless. You're either on an AFL list or not. These kids are not on an AFL list until they are chosen by a club at the same age, and at the same time, as the South Australian kids you're talking about. And guess what? They won't be chosen if they're not better than the competition. This is the fundamental point that you keep trying to dance around by using meaningless terms like 'access to lists'.

Point 5. Dont particularly care about Bryce Gibbs infact i agree he shouldnt be father/son listed to the crows. as ross never played for them. I just want our kids to have the same oppurtunity as everyone else and unfortunately it isnt a level playing field.

Until NSW (population 6 million) gets even half of the draftees each year that SA (population 1.3 million) does, cry me a river.

SimonH . Let me clarify my confusion thus bolstering my weak argument.The head of the SANFL said that Queensland are classed as a developing state, and the scholarships will be available next year.

Even if it the head of the SANFL is wrong. Which is not impossible SimonH . I just want to clarify your stance. IF SA kids arent good enough so be it suck it up. But If NSw kids are not good to be drafted a scholarship system to allow these less talented kids access to the list has to be made.

And you South Australain football fans have no complaints or qualms.

If you want to bring up the poulation argument go ahead. It means nothing. Queensland has 4.3 mill NSW has 6 million true. Where 2% of the population in those states care about aussie rules. How many would have even played the game. ???

Where in SA aussie rules is the numero uno sport. WHich kid hasnt played footy.

[dinglinga]

i apologise if i have missed or repeating something

so does the scholarship work if the child is LIVING in NSW when 15-16 .....therefore u could move the child who has lived all his life in SA to NSW when 14

ie bryce gibbs .. crows create job for ross in NSW therefore family must move there. bryce plays footy in NSW when 14-16 .. the crows then reward him with scholarship in which gets him onto rookie list ..

[Jar Man Out]

thankyou dingalinga.

disgraceful an sa kid has to leave this state to get that exposure but you are correct.

[dinglinga]

i was actually thinking of a club exploiting this LOOPHOLE....

if the crows or port thought of this ... u wouldn't use a 1st round pick...

bring him onto the list either for long term injury or retirement mid season....

[twosheds]

By the time any kid playing footy is 16 his potential ability has already been well scrutinised by all AFL clubs for years along with his parents physical characteristics and psychological profile.

I reckon that's crap!!! Here on EP we only see a select few recruiting personel, and that's ONLY at Mortlock Shield. (held June long weekend).

So you personally know all the recruiters from all 16 clubs do you? Each club has a vast network of people watching footy games all over the country and they dont necessarily advertise, sorry to have upset you , my experience of this is 10 years old so I would assume it is even more extensive now.

See Doggies 4 eva it isnt, its a place for people to pontificate long and loud about all sorts of things, conspiracy theories being one of them

[Jar Man Out]

i was actually thinking of a club exploiting this LOOPHOLE....

if the crows or port thought of this ... u wouldn't use a 1st round pick...

bring him onto the list either for long term injury or retirement mid season....

Well according to SimonH you would need to be mentally ill to exploit this loophole.

[Rab4Dogs]

Just to clarify the whole scholarship deal, the way I see it is that the young NSW lad is 'aligned' to a club (the mighty Brisbane Lions have 2 at the moment) and the young player spends some time at the club to see the goings on, get a feel of what a AFL club is all about and maybe get some coaching as well.

They are not officially a part of the club.

However, when they reach the draft age, the AFL club that they are aligned with [b]does[/b] get first 'dibs' on drafting that player, as a reward for spending the time in educating him.

This is where I think there is an opportunity for exploitation of the system that good ole' Mark Ducker is driving at..

[Jar Man Out]

Just to clarify the whole scholarship deal, the way I see it is that the young NSW lad is 'aligned' to a club (the mighty Brisbane Lions have 2 at the moment) and the young player spends some time at the club to see the goings on, get a feel of what a AFL club is all about and maybe get some coaching as well.

They are not officially a part of the club.

However, when they reach the draft age, the AFL club that they are aligned with does get first 'dibs' on drafting that player, as a reward for spending the time in educating him.

This is where I think there is an opportunity for exploitation of the system that good ole' Mark Ducker is driving at..

THankyou Rab4.

The AFl has created a loophole now for the developing states juniors to bypass the draft .

Where in SA if your kids arent good enough. Stiff.

Can not be allowed to happen.

[heater31]

Where in SA if your kids arent good enough. Stiff.

Can not be allowed to happen.

umm...............there is a reason why they aren't drafted because they are not good enough to make it in the first place. how many kids are drafted but play less than 10 games in the AFL. the non footballing states are at a serious disadvantage because their state competitions are not the same standard as ours. Sydney-dog can confirm that the Sydney football leauge would equate to A1/A2 in Adelaide.

Like I said before its time to get rid of the draft

[doggies4eva]

See Doggies 4 eva it isnt, its a place for people to pontificate long and loud about all sorts of things, conspiracy theories being one of them

Speaking of which, I had a call from Stanley. He has posted his first article on the doggies site. Worth a read.

PS - this isn't an argument.

[twosheds]

See Doggies 4 eva it isnt, its a place for people to pontificate long and loud about all sorts of things, conspiracy theories being one of them

Speaking of which, I had a call from Stanley. He has posted his first article on the doggies site. Worth a read.

PS - this isn't an argument.

Yes it is!

[doggies4eva]

See Doggies 4 eva it isnt, its a place for people to pontificate long and loud about all sorts of things, conspiracy theories being one of them

Speaking of which, I had a call from Stanley. He has posted his first article on the doggies site. Worth a read.

PS - this isn't an argument.

Yes it is!

No its not.