Relegation in the HFL

[The Gimp]

Aceman - An 11 team comp for one year sets a precedant for those clubs who wanna whinge, sook and challenge constitutions. What would be next? A 12 team comp? It's bordering on insanity. I agree with shake n bake, if we go down this path we will be mimicking the southern football league. That in itself would be a sad day for Hills Football and if it happens I'd be pointing the finger directly at Birdwood and Lobethal.

Oooo, pointing the finger!! They're really harsh words ATS

It's not setting a precedent if the constitution and by-laws are re-written properly so that they are actually clear - like what these types of documents are supposed to be. At least then all clubs are 100% clear and there's no gray areas.
If you didn't realise, which by the sound of your rants and whining you probably don't, but constitutions are supposed to be black & white and no room for interpretation - this is something the league doesn't currently have.

Tell me why an 11 team div would ruin the league? it seems to work OK 5 years ago. What will happen when another team like Cornerstone/Mt Barker #2 want to join the league? What will happen if in a couple of years the league ends up with 21, 22 or 23 teams - what do you propose then ATS?

ATS, I see you still don't have the balls to say which club you're from.

[Afterthesiren]

Gee 'Gimp' how bout I just give you my full name, we'll meet after school on the oval and box on. I'm obviously talking to a juvenile, it's ok I'll use small words. How bout we wait to these so called extra teams come on board before casting 'what ifs' to everyone. The constitution however badly written was made clear to all clubs back in December where no-one voiced any issues with promo/releg. Now that your club is in the firing line you want to change the rules to suit you. I feel I'm repeating myself a lot but you keep coming up with the same excuses. Accept the fact your club isn't currently good enough for central div (eg. Bottom 3 in all grades bar u/13) and move back to country div for a season or two. Trust me I've spoken with a good majority of clubs and their thinking is along the same lines. GO BACK.

[The Gimp]

The constitution however badly written was made clear to all clubs back in December where no-one voiced any issues with promo/releg. Now that your club is in the firing line you want to change the rules to suit you.

If it was made clear to "all" clubs, then tell me why there was still confusion come Feb at the adjourned AGM?? The minutes don't lie. You are completely wrong saying all clubs were made clear - just accept it.

[Afterthesiren]

The constitution however badly written was made clear to all clubs back in December where no-one voiced any issues with promo/releg. Now that your club is in the firing line you want to change the rules to suit you.

If it was made clear to "all" clubs, then tell me why there was still confusion come Feb at the adjourned AGM?? The minutes don't lie. You are completely wrong saying all clubs were made clear - just accept it.

That's it, that's all you've got. It's starting to sound like a broken record. I'm sure your club are real happy with you voicing the same excuses over and over again. I'm not going to continue having an argument about the same thing again and again. I've made my point, in fact I've made more than one point with why Central Div should be left alone. Perhaps you should accept the fact Country Div is a reality. You guys didn't do yourselves any favours getting Country Div clubs on your side at the last meeting either. Well done, let's see what happens Monday night.

[Afterthesiren]

Unless you believe in miracles the 'Special General Meeting' is about one club now being 'Birdwood'. The gap has widened between them and Lobethal leaving Lobethal safe from relegation under the points system. Now its up to the clubs to vote for the unpopular 11 team Central comp. All will be revealed tomorrow night.

[Amateur Footy]

I'm not so sure tomorrow night will solve anything. The By-laws will hopefully remain as is regarding a 10 team Central Comp but the issue Birdwood are creating relates to the constitution and this won't change tomorrow night. I agree that everyone knew that relegation would happen this year, but Birdwood have found a "loophole" in the constitution.

Gimp, I think you should stop playing the "we didn't know game" and admit it is more about challenging the constitution. Can't say I wouldn't try the same in that position but we were forced to do our time in Country so can't support the notion of an 11 team comp. Also worth mentioning that Central hasn't been 11 teams in my time in hills footy - it was 9 teams a few years back so we had 2 byes but atleast you played everyone twice. That won't happen with 11 teams.

[Afterthesiren]

I heard the 'special general meeting' went well for 90 percent of the clubs. Apparently the vote was in massive favour of the 10 team competition for Central Div. Good to see common sense prevail. Sounds like the notion that 'all clubs' were aware and understood the conditions of relegation was further clarified. Now let's hope common sense prevails and Birdwood accept the fact they will be playing Country Div football in 2011. Alternatively they can try a legal battle but the cost of that would do more damage financially. Yes... Birdwood might get free legal rep but if the cards don't fall in their favour they would have to pay court costs... Ouch. How do you pay the players? I can't see why they don't swallow their pride and return to Country to rebuild. Birdwood is now fast becoming the most disliked club in the HFL. It's harsh because I think two clubs should be relegated given their current on field performances but that's the rules we 'AGREED' to.

[Howard]

I heard the 'special general meeting' went well for 90 percent of the clubs. Apparently the vote was in massive favour of the 10 team competition for Central Div. Good to see common sense prevail. Sounds like the notion that 'all clubs' were aware and understood the conditions of relegation was further clarified. Now let's hope common sense prevails and Birdwood accept the fact they will be playing Country Div football in 2011. Alternatively they can try a legal battle but the cost of that would do more damage financially. Yes... Birdwood might get free legal rep but if the cards don't fall in their favour they would have to pay court costs... Ouch. How do you pay the players? I can't see why they don't swallow their pride and return to Country to rebuild. Birdwood is now fast becoming the most disliked club in the HFL. It's harsh because I think two clubs should be relegated given their current on field performances but that's the rules we 'AGREED' to.

ATS you've really had a crack at Birdwood through this entire debate, I don't think they've done anything surprising ie try and stay in the best comp possible - considering they went out on a limb entering the central div a few years ago, for their juniors, I'd say they've been vindicated in that move by taking out U/17.5 flag last year, to be now heading back down and having to face a sub standard (junior) comp I'd be fighting hard to stay too. Good on them I'd say.

The country div junior comp is the real problem here, too many clubs struggle to fill sides leaving many gaps in the draw and if they do get a game up it's usually lop sided, I don't think any club wanting to promote their kids (if they've got them in the first place) would want to line up in that div. That's not a slur on the club's there, more a recognition that small towns eg Gumeracha, callington etc will struggle to fill teams 'cos they don't have the population.

Birdwood (and Lobethal) I'd suggest are more worried about this perspective than their senior teams - at least with TV playing central most country clubs can back off with their player payments and more local boys will get a game - not a bad move I'd say.

[The Gimp]

ATS you've really had a crack at Birdwood through this entire debate, I don't think they've done anything surprising ie try and stay in the best comp possible - considering they went out on a limb entering the central div a few years ago, for their juniors, I'd say they've been vindicated in that move by taking out U/17.5 flag last year, to be now heading back down and having to face a sub standard (junior) comp I'd be fighting hard to stay too. Good on them I'd say.

The country div junior comp is the real problem here, too many clubs struggle to fill sides leaving many gaps in the draw and if they do get a game up it's usually lop sided, I don't think any club wanting to promote their kids (if they've got them in the first place) would want to line up in that div. That's not a slur on the club's there, more a recognition that small towns eg Gumeracha, callington etc will struggle to fill teams 'cos they don't have the population.

Birdwood (and Lobethal) I'd suggest are more worried about this perspective than their senior teams - at least with TV playing central most country clubs can back off with their player payments and more local boys will get a game - not a bad move I'd say.

At last someone has gone on here to speak some sense and drown out the dribble ATS is putting forward.
ATS, if you had a clue you would understand the decision to try to stay in central div has nothing to do with pride - it is about trying to provide the best available comp to ALL of our players and putting a platform in place to build a succesful club. Last night the HFL board and clubs laughed in the face of that which is disappointing, yet predictable.
All I can say is I hope the central div clubs enjoy the bye for their U13's next year - with TV not even needing to field that team in 2011.
Gary will probably go out and buy that grade as well though so it may not be a problem.

For everyones info, the vote went 16 to 4 in favour of keeping a 10 team central div.

[aceman]

ATS you've really had a crack at Birdwood through this entire debate, I don't think they've done anything surprising ie try and stay in the best comp possible - considering they went out on a limb entering the central div a few years ago, for their juniors, I'd say they've been vindicated in that move by taking out U/17.5 flag last year, to be now heading back down and having to face a sub standard (junior) comp I'd be fighting hard to stay too. Good on them I'd say.

The country div junior comp is the real problem here, too many clubs struggle to fill sides leaving many gaps in the draw and if they do get a game up it's usually lop sided, I don't think any club wanting to promote their kids (if they've got them in the first place) would want to line up in that div. That's not a slur on the club's there, more a recognition that small towns eg Gumeracha, callington etc will struggle to fill teams 'cos they don't have the population.

Birdwood (and Lobethal) I'd suggest are more worried about this perspective than their senior teams - at least with TV playing central most country clubs can back off with their player payments and more local boys will get a game - not a bad move I'd say.

At last someone has gone on here to speak some sense and drown out the dribble ATS is putting forward.
ATS, if you had a clue you would understand the decision to try to stay in central div has nothing to do with pride - it is about trying to provide the best available comp to ALL of our players and putting a platform in place to build a succesful club. Last night the HFL board and clubs laughed in the face of that which is disappointing, yet predictable.
All I can say is I hope the central div clubs enjoy the bye for their U13's next year - with TV not even needing to field that team in 2011.
Gary will probably go out and buy that grade as well though so it may not be a problem.

For everyones info, the vote went 16 to 4 in favour of keeping a 10 team central div.

Unfortunately Gimp, you were always fighting a losing battle. Reform & the HFL don't always go 'hand in hand'.

[HB_Flanker]

Can Birdwood now reapply to go back in to Central in 2012? If they can that is surely their best move. Then if they are good enough they will go back and one of the two teams that were more deserving of relegation (Lobey and Bridgewater) will come down.

[Howard]

ATS you've really had a crack at Birdwood through this entire debate, I don't think they've done anything surprising ie try and stay in the best comp possible - considering they went out on a limb entering the central div a few years ago, for their juniors, I'd say they've been vindicated in that move by taking out U/17.5 flag last year, to be now heading back down and having to face a sub standard (junior) comp I'd be fighting hard to stay too. Good on them I'd say.

The country div junior comp is the real problem here, too many clubs struggle to fill sides leaving many gaps in the draw and if they do get a game up it's usually lop sided, I don't think any club wanting to promote their kids (if they've got them in the first place) would want to line up in that div. That's not a slur on the club's there, more a recognition that small towns eg Gumeracha, callington etc will struggle to fill teams 'cos they don't have the population.

Birdwood (and Lobethal) I'd suggest are more worried about this perspective than their senior teams - at least with TV playing central most country clubs can back off with their player payments and more local boys will get a game - not a bad move I'd say.

At last someone has gone on here to speak some sense and drown out the dribble ATS is putting forward.
ATS, if you had a clue you would understand the decision to try to stay in central div has nothing to do with pride - it is about trying to provide the best available comp to ALL of our players and putting a platform in place to build a succesful club. Last night the HFL board and clubs laughed in the face of that which is disappointing, yet predictable.
All I can say is I hope the central div clubs enjoy the bye for their U13's next year - with TV not even needing to field that team in 2011.
Gary will probably go out and buy that grade as well though so it may not be a problem.

For everyones info, the vote went 16 to 4 in favour of keeping a 10 team central div.

Unfortunately Gimp, you were always fighting a losing battle. Reform & the HFL don't always go 'hand in hand'.

Hi Ace, it's been awhile since we locked horns, but it's great to see we agree on this subject, the HFL and reform are not on the same planet - unfortunately they (HFL) don't seem to be capable of seeing the forest for the trees.

[has been]

Good news that the central comp remains at 10 teams - that retains the integrity of the league. What the HFL board now need do is put a very simple relegation process in place and at the same time drop sedan and callington to C grade to let them be competative and also make the country div a more level 8 team comp. I do feel sorry for Birdwood as Lobethal are quite clearly the worst club and will be again next year. They have shown absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise at this stage, apart from asking the HFL for a cash handout to buy players - $20k I believe. Will be interesting to see if the HFL nomnate Birdwood or Loby in the 10 team comp in 2011.Will be an interseting AGM in december one would suggest.

[Tanka]

HB thats been the whole point to this debate....... now no one knows what is happening in either league in years to come. You can be sure that the HFL won't want to go through all this next year so who knows what they will come up with?? Great precedent though to relegate clubs based on their 14 year old kids and not their A Grade.... does that mean we all go out to recruit kids if we know our juniors will be light on???? Doubt it just reckon the Constitution will be changed.....

Has Been not sure about the integrity of the league being maintained either if Loby remain up based on 1 A Grade win in 3 years and asking for cash handouts????

[bridgyboy]

Can Birdwood now reapply to go back in to Central in 2012? If they can that is surely their best move. Then if they are good enough they will go back and one of the two teams that were more deserving of relegation (Lobey and Bridgewater) will come down.

Not sure why you think that Bridgewater are more deserving to go down than Birdwood.

A quick look at the premiership tables will show that all 3 Bridgewater junior teams are in the finals (Birdwood have one), and the Raiders A grade easily defeated Birdwood in both games they played this year. Bridgewater are all over Birdwood in 2010.

[Howard]

Part of the answer (and problem) with this situation is the difference between the senior and junior standards within the clubs, relegation should be based on senior footballers. Relegating the club impacts on the juniors - hence the dilemma.

The answer could be to have country div clubs with strong juniors (like Birdwood in 2011) nominate their kids in a central comp?? Worth a thought??

[false]

So is that it then? We're playing Divvy 2 next year?
Does it still depend on the points? how far are we behind?

sad sad day...

[woody]

HFL Country Division- The Poacher Thursday July 29
Quote
(I wish all teams had a "gary", [dont know who gary is, but if he puts money into a football club and makes them successful then he cant be a bad bloke in my books.] if they did then you wouldn't get the happenings that are going on in the under 17.5 Country DIV.. 3 weeks to the finals and MEADOWS have a bye, a forfeit, and a final game against Kangy. the 5th team have 3 wins,3 forfeits for 12 pts.[not their fault] The 6th team has 5 wins and a draw for 11pts. How could these situation have been avoided if you get rid of the Callingtons and the like. [It couldnt] As this situation have been 'caused' by Kersbrook, Sedan not having teams, and Maccy forfeiting due to lack of numbers. Thanks goes to Blackwood for putting in a team. I am not having a 'GO' at anybody, but just trying to point out that things are not always perfect, and some situations are not always as bad as they may appear. Yes, floggings arent good, but they happen in every league, to almost every team, sometime in their history. ) Quote

I feel this post from the Country Div highlights why Birdwood is concerned about the move to Country Div.
Hopefully all teams can fill every grade in 2011.

[Trooper]

Good news that the central comp remains at 10 teams - that retains the integrity of the league. What the HFL board now need do is put a very simple relegation process in place and at the same time drop sedan and callington to C grade to let them be competative and also make the country div a more level 8 team comp. I do feel sorry for Birdwood as Lobethal are quite clearly the worst club and will be again next year. They have shown absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise at this stage, apart from asking the HFL for a cash handout to buy players - $20k I believe. Will be interesting to see if the HFL nomnate Birdwood or Loby in the 10 team comp in 2011.Will be an interseting AGM in december one would suggest.

I'd like to know where you get your info from Has Been. Can't say that Lobey will be looking for hand outs from the HFL. Perhaps the HFL should give your club a hand out for some descent facilities. Bridgewater too!

Recruiting at a club has more to do with who your coach, committee and players know, along with team location and performance. Not just money! Lobey are in the unfortunate position that all their hard work over the last 10 years is benifiting Norwood at the moment. With 4 players at league level across 2 clubs and another 6 at reserves and U18's. Lobey need to try and find a way to improve their depth at senior level until some of these hopefully return. Then you will hopefully see a stronger Lobey.

[Amateur Footy]

My understanding is that Loby did indeed ask for $20k from the HFL.