The Eagles Demerging

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In 1991 the Crows took out collectively a whole team of players from the SANFL. Realistically that would mean there would be one club less, and of course it turned out that way. This topics suggestion or the country team would dilute the standard of the competition by zone shuffling; plus the fact the income needed to run the club would need to be found - it all can't come from just pokies moniey.

Also, remember that there must also be Reserves and probably the under age teams as well. Where are all the players going to come from to continue the standard the SANFL is setting at the moment?

The only way that there will be 10 teams in the SANFL is for an interstate team to come in. But what will happen then? We will most likely see only 18 matches per club -one of those interstate. That's instead of the current 20; and I know I'd rather see more footy than less.

Besides, these options people have been talking about for years; and nothing is happening about it; so people should just accept the current set up of the SANFL.

[Wedgie]

South could easily have taken the soft option and merged with either Sturt or Westies in the 80's if we wished to, maybe then we would have won several premierships, yet it is my opinion that merging a club to win a premiership makes for somewhat of a hollow victory at best so why bother?

How many years after merging must we wait in order to win a flag that isn't hollow?

Depends how long I live.

Seriously though I thought this topic was ridiculous when I first read it, then I thought a bit more about it and thought it had some validity, then thought some more about it and thought it was moronic again. I must be schitzo.

There's no way it would happen but this idea and the idea of the Crows entering the SANFL seem the only 2 valid options to get a 10th team. Id love to see the bye get rid of but its unlikely to happen, both growing areas are already covered, perhaps demerge Centrals into 2 clubs, that way their fans would probably have 2 teams to barrack for in the finals.

[Punk Rooster]

sirs, the only way the number of teams will change in the competition, is by reduction, not by increase...

[Wedgie]

sirs, the only way the number of teams will change in the competition, is by reduction, not by increase...

Yeah but hypothetically speaking if both Sturt and Norwood's new ventures are successful then that will never happen either.
Is the SANFL's only chance of getting rid of the bye eliminating one of these great clubs?
Perhaps if you approached Leigh Whicker informally Punky you could put together an offer to blow up Glenelg like you've mentioned on a few occasions.

[brent]

And I wish I, wish I knew the right words...

To blow up the tigers and drag them away...

[PhilH]

NB THESE ARE MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS

Fact is there is no perfect solution
- 9 teams - 3 byes in a season
- 8 teams - who goes or merges?
- 10 teams - dilutes talent, moves zones or excessive travel costs


Personally I think 9 is the lesser evil of these three options
I think most in a club don't mind the bye as a break from what can be a long year, especially with the number that have come from interstate,
It's when you have things like state games, first round and last round when a bye is inconvenient.


Educated guess says we will have nine until one club gets into REAL financial strife and has to fold or merge.


If we HAD to have a 10th team
- my thought --- why not Mildura

Population of region approx 50,000

Not in SANFL club zone, no need to ammend or dilute local talent

Not in TAC Cup and certainly not VFL (closest team Bendigo)

400km, 5 hours drive from Adelaide. Flights available.

Can come up Saturday, play under lights Sat Night, stay overnight, come back Sunday

Beautiful winter weather, great weekend away.

Tourism spinner for region

May attract VFL caliber players liking to stay in Victoria.


Issues would be effect on Sunraysia League
Could they over time recruit a competitive team ?
Would they have enough corporate support (need $300K to $600K of corporate sponsorship) ?

JUST MY THOUGHTS ---- Certainly not those of SAFC

[Magpiespower]

The premiership club demerging?

Demerging to a couple of basket cases once again.

Stay off the crack!

[SimonH]

If we HAD to have a 10th team
- my thought --- why not Mildura

Population of region approx 50,000

Not in SANFL club zone, no need to ammend or dilute local talent

Not in TAC Cup and certainly not VFL (closest team Bendigo)

400km, 5 hours drive from Adelaide. Flights available.

Can come up Saturday, play under lights Sat Night, stay overnight, come back Sunday

Beautiful winter weather, great weekend away.

Tourism spinner for region

May attract VFL caliber players liking to stay in Victoria.

My view is that having byes looks too much like amateur hour. You want to give the players a break (or two)? Program split rounds over the course of the year. I think that greater travel for clubs within many sporting competitions is inevitable. Where amateur teams in country comps have been doing half-day round trips week-in, week-out for years, travel in a semi-pro comp is nothing to be feared.

All major Australian sporting competitions that have had odd numbers of teams at various points over the years because of ructions or attrition have naturally gravitated towards even numbers as opportunities have arisen (see, e.g., the NRL right now). There is no prospect of merger or folding of any club-- by and large those clubs in the worst financial straits (Sturt, Norwood) have some of the largest support-bases, and so even if finances got worse, it wouldn't be in the SANFL's interest to allow them to disappear.

The Mildura idea is a really interesting one. I hadn't realised until I just had a look just how poorly represented country Vic is in the VFL. Apart from Geelong, there's just Ballarat and Bendigo. Then again, while Vic country has a net population of about 1.3 million, it's very widely dispersed.

The big problem in this wide brown, relatively unpopulated, land is finding warm bodies. And to find enough warm bodies you need to combine population centres, which creates travel issues. The SANFL clubs have a catchment of 120,000 or so each in Adelaide, plus 45,000 each on top of that for country players (dividing SA's 400,000 country dwellers by 9). Darwin with its population of 111,000, is just about a perfect fit, but its problems are well-known. The Iron Triangle towns have about 60,000. Against that background, I doubt if 50,000 in the Mildura area would be enough. But with the greater per-capita enthusiasm for footy in country regions than in the city, if you can find a catchment population of 80,000, you might be getting close to the mark.

I don't know if there's a map of the VCFL affiliated leagues' regions (and in fact, many of them seem to overlap), but I think that any 10th SANFL team based around west/NW Victoria would need to be run in cooperation with the VCFL-- in particular the Sunraysia, Mallee, Wimmera and Horsham Districts FLs. Basically, one solution would be to get Horsham and its regional population of over 20,000 involved (and the small populations in towns in the area between the 2 cities) as well. Then the challenge would be maintaining solid crowd support and sponsors' interest in light of the fact that home games would have to be split between the two places, 2 hours 40 minutes' drive apart. A more left-field suggestion would be seeking to combine Mildura and Broken Hill (pop 21,000, 3 hours' drive from Mildura), but putting together a team from 2 states would seem to pose more problems than it was worth.

People from Swan Hill and nearby are more likely to be drawn down to the relative proximity of Bendigo and its VFL team, making it unlikely you could make up the numbers by spreading along the river. I presume that some people would be naturally drawn in from SA Riverland towns like Renmark and Berri. But as these places are frankly not that far from Adelaide (and because they are already zone-allocated, not to mention prevailing 'Vics are pricks' attitudes), I doubt that this population alone would affect the viability of the enterprise.

I like the idea mostly because Football Victoria (and that notoriously one-eyed Victorian organisation, the AFL) would have an absolute fit.

[Snaggletooth Tiger]

Woodville Cheer Squad chant from late 70's/early 80's:-
"Bubblegum, Bubblegum, Pop! Pop! Pop!
Come on Woodville, Stay up on top!
Yaaaayyyy Woodville!"
I would love to see the 'Peckers' back in the SANFL
(For comedy reasons alone!)
But sadly, I don't think it's financially feasible!

[Navy2005]

My opinion about the Eagles demerging is that it would be great for SANFL football it would bring back a 10 team competition to the league which would cut out the bye for a start. I could be accused that I only want the Eagles to demerge so that it would weaken a power club in the Woodville/West Torrens from but that is not the case. I was glad to see anybody knock Centrals off such has been their dominance of the competition for the last 7 or so seasons. And as a North supporter I think we will be powerful enough to win the 2007 premiership in any case.

I would simply love to see West Torrens re emerge as they have a proud and storied history. I also don't see the problems as the zones could be returned to what they formally were and any opportunity to give more local lads the chance to play at SANFL level could only be a good thing. Most importantly if West Torrens were to come back it would stimulate interest into the competition and a bit of local tribalism.

The only real concern would be if this is a financially viable option and has the support of its members. If it does the West Torrens football club should be based at Thebarton Oval a great venue for SANFL football.

[McAlmanac]

All this demerging talk is centred on restablishing the West Torrens identity at Thebarton. The truth is that they were broke at the time of the merger. Where were all these passionate West Torrens advocates in 1990?

Woodville's bingo and money tickets turned over $200,000 at the time of merging, compared to West Torrens' $40,000. Woodville's keno turnover was 10 times that of Torrens; Woodville's TAB setup operated at a profit compared to Sky Channel costs while Torrens' lost money.

West Torrens was the highest drawing team in the competition in 1962, averaging 12,685 per match. Two years later, with the introduction of Woodville, this had fallen to 9,221. In Woodville's 27 year existence as a League club, both clubs played finas on three occasions. That's 6 finals campaigns from a possible 54.

West Torrens as a football club fell into disrepair with the introduction of Woodville, culminating in eight bottom two placings in its last decade. The merged entity restores the strength of the region in football while acknowledging the past of both clubs.

[Strawb]

What was supposed to combat Port's dominance of the league back fired and killed two clubs in a sense. I feel that the Eagles should never demerge it is a step backwards. Phil you have the right Idea using Mildura but is it up to the VCFl and sunraysia leagues to look into this sort of thing.

[Punk Rooster]

All the talk of a Mildura/NT entering the SANFL is a fantasy.
Let's face it, we're effectively running 11 clubs out of SA- 9 SANFL & 2 AFL.
Hypothetically we could create a 10th side for the SANFL, but given that we use delisted AFL players/VFL & WAFL players, it would only increase the incoming recruiting traffic into the SANFL.
Negatives (of introducing a 10th side)-
where will the new supporters come from, in an era where the clubs are struggling to maintain their market share (which is eroding)?
will supporters be happy that their club will recieve a lesser dividend? (1/10th instead of 1/9th)
what impact will it have on the Amateur League, who'll possibly lose those fringe players back into the SANFL system?
talent is spread over 10 clubs instead of 9


Positives
The bye is eliminated
better chance of playing SANFL (220 playing league each week instead of 198)
an increase in games (?)

Plenty more could be added to either list, but imo, we are not in a position at the moment to enter a 10th side.
Clubs are settling back into a period of "calm" after the "destruction" of the SANFL by the Crows & Port joining the AFL, & it's a very fine line they're walking at the moment (Norwood & Sturt are financially vulnerable still).

[Wedgie]

Im not sure if this is a silly question or not but with so many teams especially country teams merging in recent years has anyone heard of teams "de-merging" anywhere?

[Wedgie]

better chance of playing SANFL (220 playing league each week instead of 198)
an increase in games (?)

Dude, you're watching too much AFL and not enough real footy, it should be (210 playing league each week instead of 189).
Shame on you Punky!

[Punk Rooster]

better chance of playing SANFL (220 playing league each week instead of 198)
an increase in games (?)

Dude, you're watching too much AFL and not enough real footy, it should be (210 playing league each week instead of 189).
Shame on you Punky!

bollocks to you for marrying into a Glenelg family!

[Wedgie]

better chance of playing SANFL (220 playing league each week instead of 198)
an increase in games (?)

Dude, you're watching too much AFL and not enough real footy, it should be (210 playing league each week instead of 189).
Shame on you Punky!

bollocks to you for marrying into a Glenelg family!

Never been married.
Plus my other half's old man was a North supporter.
Unlike my deluded natural parents who are both Norwood supporters (not to mention a deluded Torrens man for a step dad).

[Punk Rooster]

bollocks to you for marrying into a Glenelg family!

Never been married.
Plus my other half's old man was a North supporter.
Unlike my deluded natural parents who are both Norwood supporters (not to mention a deluded Torrens man for a step dad).

living in sin then...

[JK]

Do the cons of having the Bye really outweight the Pros?

I know it's frustrating at times as a supporter to not be able to watch your team some weekends, but it also allows for you to plan other comittments that weekend ... One leisure trip I make every year I always plan it for a weekend when my club has the bye - The volunteers and match day staff generally appreciate the odd week off during the season also.

The biggest problem seems to be for those teams in contention who might receive the bye in the final round, but if you just alternate it every year then it surely evens out ... The playing field is level at the commencement of every season and it's the responsibility of the clubs, coaches, players etc to adapt to a week's break.

[smac]

Agree with all of that CP, plus a lot of recruits plan trips home, wherever that may be, during the bye weeks - it can mean the difference between playing SANFL and staying home for some players. So the bye lifts the standard of our comp.