Australian Flag "Banned" ?

[topsywaldron]

[and for Topsy - if we had more Australian history in our schools and maybe singing the National Anthem every day like in the states the youngsters from BOTH sides that caused Cronulla would be more tolerant of each other and understand our multicultural roots...

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Dutchy.

I can't belive you equate tolerance with nationalism. Those Nazis were fairly proud of their country weren't they? Didn't seem to make them too tolerant of minorities.

[Punk Rooster]

LL- you have a problem with the Union Jack, yet you mention your heritage is Welsh, Scottish & English.
Those 3 country's flag form the Union Jack, one would've thought that it would kill 3 birds with 1 stone...

The 3 flags are those of St. George, St. Andrew and St. Patrick. I hate to break the news to you Punky, but St. Paddy wasn't a taffy...

my mistake- English, Scottish & Irish

My point still stands though if LL mentioned Irish heritage as well!

[Punk Rooster]

I can't belive you equate tolerance with nationalism. Those Nazis were fairly proud of their country weren't they? Didn't seem to make them too tolerant of minorities.

it would seem in todays world that the minorities are not tolerant of the mainstream...

[Dogwatcher]

What is it about the mainstream they don't accept?

[Punk Rooster]

What is it about the mainstream they don't accept?

our values & traditions for a start...

[topsywaldron]

Who's 'they' by the way?

[Magpiespower]

My point still stands though if LL mentioned Irish heritage as well!

The Irish represented by the Union Jack?

I'll have to let the rellies know about that one.

FWIW, St. Patrick was a Pom...

[Dogwatcher]

What is it about the mainstream they don't accept?

our values & traditions for a start...

And what are our traditions?

[Punk Rooster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack

[Magpiespower]

It's not recognised by the Irish...

[redandblack]

Firstly, well said, Dogwatcher.

Secondly, claiming "the mainstream" is fraught with difficulty. The mainstream supported the Iraq war years ago, now it doesn't, so who are the mainstream?

Last, equating the Eureka Stockade where people were fighting for rights with straight out thuggery shows where you're at, PR.

[noone]

What is it about the mainstream they don't accept?

our values & traditions for a start...

And what are our traditions?

Ill second that..

Im sorry but the moment someone mentions the word values, the word F wit is generally at the tip of my tongue. To think that Australian's have some uniform set of values is well just silly. If your going to start crapping on about values, perhaps you should establish what those values are. You can likely start looking here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy

---

and yes I am going to the BDO, and while I havn't seen the 'kiss the flag or one on the nose' stuff that happened last year (im not sure if it was largely confined to sydney, ( I dont drink at the BDO (i figure you shouldn't need to drink to enjoy a couple of dozen good bands), so I guess im less likely to encounter drunken bogans outside the beer tent), I can easily see it occurring there.

[Dogwatcher]

noone - see you at the BDO . Might need to start a seperate thread for that though!

[noone]

noone - see you at the BDO . Might need to start a seperate thread for that though!

indeed,

[Leaping Lindner]

Bill Hicks' thoughts on "the flag"

I personally do not believe in burning the flag. It's a personal belief, but I'll tell you something, I think people are overreacting, oh, just a little bit.
"Hey buddy, my daddy died for that flag."
Well, I bought mine. Sorry. You know they sell them at K-Mart for three bucks, you're in, you're out, brand new flag, no violence was necessary.
"Hey buddy, my daddy died in the Korean war for that flag."
What a coincidence - my flag was made in Korea!

[zipzap]

While I don't necessarily think banning the flag at the event's a great idea, I think if nothing else, it's opened up a debate about how our flag is being misused. And it's being misused by a growing number of teenagers and people in their early 20s who have known nothing other than a Howard government and its politics of division. I've see many young people wearing the flag (whether as a cape or on t-shirts) and representing it in the wrong way.

The wisest comment I've seen on this thread so far. We'll have to start a new social set acronym to go with CUBs, CHAVs, DINKs etc.
How about RIF RAF - (W)rapped in Flags, Rednecks Are Fascists.

[devilsadvocate]

This is likely to create pandemonium, but hey I thought I'd post it anyhoo....

On the subject of taking some tips from the yanks on nationalism:

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people ."

[Dogwatcher]

I guess the question is, is that view (and it's one being put around by some here) outdated?

When you consider that question, you need to look at the way the international community interacts, how transport has changed our migratory patterns and how the world wide web has brought us closer in terms of communication.....

I don't think I have an answer.

[ca]

Its really up to the BDO what they do and don't let in, it was a slow news morning and it then gave a number of people a chance to take a cheap shot at the BDO organisors after it was mis reported. There is a problem with flags and banners blocking the view of stages so perhaps they should have just used that as an excuse and no one would have thought anything of it.

The funny thing is this is the first year the Sydney BDO is not on Australia Day so you would think its a less of a problem than other years. It has created some good debate though.

[devilsadvocate]

Dogwatcher

I don't think there is an answer. Everyone has different values and opinions etc, which is what makes this such a sensitive issue.

My take on it is:

1. I think Australia is very accomodating of all and sundry and this tolerance has led to some people pushing the boundaries.

2. When you go to another country, you should respect their values, traditions and way of life. I know this was not the case when imigrants first came to Australia and some things that occurred in the past are a black mark on our history. However, in this day and age of global trade and immigration, people should have respect for the country they are immigrating to. When I'm in another country, I will respect their values and way of life, not try to impose my Aussie ways on others. I think this should be the position taken up by immigrants to this country - if someone wants to become an Australian citizen, then they need to accept and adopt our way of life, not try to bring us down with the cr@p the goes in their country of origin.