Our current side is so bad....

[smithy]

A recent article from the Herald Sun labeled this side worse than the 86/87 side in comparison.
Only 4 of the current side would make the 86/87 side in a head to head selection.
That's only cause they picked Siddle over hughes which is a bit suss to me.

NO AUSTRALIAN side has lost a home Ashes series since our embarrassing 2-1 capitulation in 1986/87. But worryingly, if we were to pick a side from that team and the 11 blokes who lost the second Test this week, on form only four current players would get the nod.
Man for man, seven of the 11 spots would be taken by the 1986/87 side.

Both our current captain Ricky Ponting and vice-captain Michael Clarke would miss out, while Peter Siddle would be the only member of the second Test bowling attack to keep his place.

More worrying still, it's hard to see where the improvement is going to come from.

The silver lining for the '86/87 team was the standout performance of a 21-year-old future Australian captain by the name of Steve Waugh and a series-best haul of 20 wickets from young speedster Bruce Reid.

The youngest member of the current team is 'the spinner who couldn't', 28-year-old Xavier Doherty, who was dropped for the third Test.


Simon Katich (2010/11) v Geoff Marsh (1986/87)

Marsh gets the nod here for the resistance he put up as his team crumbled around him in the first Test.

Eight Australian batsmen reached double figures in the second innings after being forced to follow on, but Marsh was the only one to convert his into a big score, racking up 110 runs off 311 balls in a defiant display that gave the home side some hope of saving the match. Marsh averaged almost 43 for the series.

Katich started the current series with a half-century but quickly ran out of luck, dismissed for four runs in the second innings in Brisbane and run out without facing a ball in the second Test. He hobbled his way to 43 in the second innings after injuring his achilles tendon, but has since been ruled out for the rest of the summer.

Our pick: Geoff Marsh

Shane Watson v David Boon

With scores of 10, 14, 2, 0, 0, 7, 8 and a lone century (103), Boon's series average of 18 as an opening bat was relatively flattering. He was dropped for the final Test.

Watson's position has been the subject of much debate, with his bowling workload as the team's allrounder believed to be impacting his batting performance. But two half-centuries in the second Test are a reasonable return in a side under the pump.

Our pick: Shane Watson

Ricky Ponting v Dean Jones

Jones topped the list of Australian batting averages at the end of the 1986/87 series with 56.77, but that figure is deceptive. He failed badly in the first Test (7 and 18), which Australia lost, but improved as the series progressed, finishing with three half-centuries and an unbeaten 184 in the fifth Test in Sydney. But by that stage the Ashes urn was already in England's hands.

As captain, Ponting has worn much of the mounting pressure on the Australian side but has been unable to conquer his own demons. He scored 51 not out as the first Test petered out for a draw, and has reached double figures just once in his other three innings.

Our pick: Dean Jones

Michael Clarke v Allan Border

A tough call. Border was captain, Clarke vice-captain - both leaders who performed inconsistently in struggling sides.

Clarke looked all at sea in the first Test as he struggled with a back injury, making just nine runs in 76 minutes in the first innings in Brisbane, then falling for just two in the second. He returned to form with a fighting 80 on day four of the second Test, but was dismissed in the final over of the day to end any chance Australia had of saving the match.

Border was another Aussie batsman who went missing in the first Test. He hit back with 125 in the second Test and ended the series with another ton and a half-century. He averaged 52.55 for the summer.

Our pick: Allan Border

Mike Hussey v Greg Ritchie

Ritchie didn't go a lot wrong, averaging 40.66 for the series, but could still be branded as disappointing after getting starts in all but one of his eight innings, yet failing to register even a half-century.

Hussey, on the other hand, is the form batsman of the Australian side and deserves his place. Facing a storm of criticism in the lead up to the series, the left-hander and his teammate Brad Haddin have been the only men in Australia's middle order to show any pluck as the team's series chances head rapidly down the gurgler. Just missed a double century in the first Test and is averaging 113.

Our pick: Mike Hussey

Marcus North v Steve Waugh

Waugh stood up with both the bat and ball in the 1986/87 to entrench himself as a must-pick player for the next decade and beyond. The 21-year-old future captain shifted up and down the batting order throughout the series, making a 71 at No.3, a 79 not out at No.7 and a 73 at No.6. He averaged 44.28 and took 10 wickets at 33.6, including a five-wicket haul in the drawn third Test in Perth.

North has just been cut from the Australia side after single-figure scores in both first-Test innings. He reached the 20s twice in the second Test and is handy with his off-spin but was the first casualty in the Australian selectors post-match cleanout.

Our pick: Steve Waugh

Brad Haddin v Tim Zoehrer

With a premium placed on Australia's man behind the stumps being able to wield the willow, Brad Haddin is the obvious choice. Averaging 68 after two Tests, Haddin scored a memorable century in a record-breaking 307-run stand with Mike Hussey at the Gabba.

Four of Zoehrer's 10 Tests came in the 1986/87 series, but he was effectively a stop-gap between the retired Rod Marsh and incoming Ian Healy and averaged 17 for the series. Zoehrer, a popular player in Western Australia, is perhaps better known as the man the Warriors ousted in favour of New South Wales import Adam Gilchrist.

Our pick: Brad Haddin

Xavier Doherty v Greg Matthews

Matthews was picked as Australia's spinner for the first four Ashes Tests, but his real star turn came with the bat. More than competent as a left-handed batsman, the flamboyant New South Welshman made an unbeaten half-century in the first Test and, courtesy of three other unbeaten innings, finished the series with 215 runs an average of 53.75, an average second only to Dean Jones. He had minimal luck with the ball, taking just two wickets from his 83 overs across four Tests.

Doherty was a monty to be dropped for the third Test after forgettable performances in Brisbane and Adelaide. His confidence took a hammering in the second Test as the English top order plundered his tame spin offerings for 158 runs off 27 overs - an economy rate of 5.85.

As neither Matthews or Doherty were up to the mark as a spinning strike weapon, Matthews wins selection for his batting prowess.

Our pick: Greg Matthews

Peter Siddle v Merv Hughes

Two Victorians who both offer the same "charge in hard all day" mentality, Siddle and Hughes started their series' in hot form. Hughes took five wickets for the match in Australia's losing first Test, while Siddle took six wickets and a hat-trick to set the current series alight.

Hughes missed the second Test but took just five wickets in the remaining three, while Siddle's first Test heroics were tempered by his 30 wicketless overs in Adelaide.

Our pick: Peter Siddle, if only for the hat-trick

Doug Bollinger v Peter Sleep

Both Sleep and Bollinger were called into their respective line-ups as their teams searched for wicket-takers.

Sleep, a leg spinner, didn't appear in the 1986/87 Ashes series until the third Test but had an instant impact in the drawn match, taking four wickets in the first innings. He also took five wickets in the second innings of the final Test, a match better remembered for Peter Taylor's eight-wicket haul on debut.

Bollinger won selection in the Aussie side for the second Test but was pushed straight back through the revolving door after a lack of fitness saw his pace drop dramatically as England's mammoth first innings wore on. Took just one wicket and went for almost 4.5 runs an over.

Our pick: Peter Sleep

Ryan Harris v Bruce Reid

A giant left-arm paceman who debuted as a 22-year-old the previous year, Reid was the standout bowler for Australia in 1986/87, taking 20 wickets, the most of either side.

Harris was under an injury cloud both before (knee) and after (shoulder) the second Test, but performed solidly for the home side after being called in to Australia's struggling pace attack. He took two wickets at an economical 2.89 runs an over, but it remains to be seen whether his body can cope with the rigours of a full summer series.

Our pick: Bruce Reid

[rockstar]

Thats just stupid, your comparing apples with oranges!

Your comparing Bollinger with Sleep and Harris with Reid!

Why not compare Bollinger with Reid, Harris with Hughes and Sleep with Doherty and Matthews is just rubbish compare him with the garbage can out the back!

[smithy]

Thats just stupid, your comparing apples with oranges!

Your comparing Bollinger with Sleep and Harris with Reid!

Why not compare Bollinger with Reid, Harris with Hughes and Sleep with Doherty and Matthews is just rubbish compare him with the garbage can out the back!

Ease up bullseye.
It was an article written by The Herald Sun.

[mal]

The current side would beat the 1986/87 side within 3 days

[jackpot jim]

Ridiculous & meaningless article by the Herald Sun.

[rockstar]

Ease up bullseye.
It was an article written by The Herald Sun.

Sorry didnt mean to sound like i was directing the comment at you!

[smithy]

Ease up bullseye.
It was an article written by The Herald Sun.

Sorry didnt mean to sound like i was directing the comment at you!

No problems mate.
I did think some of the comparisons were odd also.
They picked Siddle over HUghes and Marsh over Katich ??????????

It's more of an article to spark debate to be honest.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Interesting they say Matthews' spin bowling wasn't up to the mark when he took 10 wickets in the Tied Test. To compare anyone to Doherty is an insult, Doherty's far and away the worst player to wear the green baggy in the 45 years I've watched Tests.

Rating Siddle ahead of Merv Hughes ..... really? How strange. Have they forgotrten the way Hughes spearheaded the Aussie attack in a successful era? Hughes used the short ball cleverly, not as a stock ball like Siddle.

And Bruce Reid. Brilliant Bruce. What I wouldn't give to have a fit Bruce Reid in the Aussie team today. He is easily the best left arm quick I've seen in Australia. Gained tremendous bounce from a good length, generated worrying pace, and was able to move the ball both ways off the wicket. If it wasn't for injury, he would have taken in excess of 300 Test wickets. Just for a laugh, compare him with Johnson, a bowler with no clue whatsoever.

I actually rate the current team alongside the Aussie teams that played in the World Series days.

[Hondo]

They are comparing performances in the 86-87 series only which is why Siddle gets in over Hughes who did not have a good series. This is the same logic they use to pick Jones over Ponting. It's a very flawed article logic wise. I think, as Smithy said, it's just trying to stir up debate and flame the fires.

[Adelaide Hawk]

They are comparing performances in the 86-87 series only which is why Siddle gets in over Hughes who did not have a good series. This is the same logic they use to pick Jones over Ponting. It's a very flawed article logic wise. I think, as Smithy said, it's just trying to stir up debate and flame the fires.

Yes, I continue to fall the trap of making genuine assessments on a player's ability rather than simply resorting to numbers. Silly me

[am Bays]

Some funny comments about our current predicament...

The Guardian sums up Australian fast bowler Doug Bollinger: ‘‘‘Doug the rug’ has established a cult following after a successful 2009/10 summer spent taking wickets against Pakistanis at Test level. This is akin to claiming to be a ladies man because you sleep with loads of hookers.”

Gideon Haigh on Shane Watson: “In 30 innings since his restoration to the Australian team as an ersatz opener, he has fallen on 17 occasions between 30 and 65, and gone further only five times. And people thought John Howard was stuck in the 50s.”

English gag going around: “English bowler Stuart Broad is going home with a bad side ... but no one is sure where the Australian team will sleep, as he’s only got a two-bed flat.”

From TFF in smh.com.au

[Rik E Boy]

They are comparing performances in the 86-87 series only which is why Siddle gets in over Hughes who did not have a good series. This is the same logic they use to pick Jones over Ponting. It's a very flawed article logic wise. I think, as Smithy said, it's just trying to stir up debate and flame the fires.

Yes, I continue to fall the trap of making genuine assessments on a player's ability rather than simply resorting to numbers. Silly me

Not to mention that the 86/87 boys get the benefit of stats generated by the win in Sydney. We've got three tests to go here and this sort of comparison is woefully premature. If you remember that series we got flogged in Brisbane and were slaughtered by Broad and Athey in Perth. On Boxing day 1986 we were bowled out for 141 to meekly surrender the series.

regards,

REB

[Interceptor]

This is probably a more intelligent comparision between the eras:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/back-to-the-dark-ages-20101210-18stl.html

[FlyingHigh]

These position-for-position comparisons really annoy me.
Take Michael Clarke. Sure, one-on-one you'd pick Border before him for a no 4, but you'd pick Clarke well before Dean Jones or a 21y.o. Steve Waugh at either no 3 or 6.
And they don't take into account the degree of difference between the players. Marsh v Katich is almost a dead-heat, but Hussey is so far ahead of Ritchie it's not funny.