Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

[smac]

Principled?

[redandblack]

Tony Abbott?

Principled

[southee]

Tony Abbott?

Principled

Merry Christmas R&B.....all the best wishes to you and your family.

Im fine. Everyone has an opinion on things thats why I love this politics forum. Interesting to listen to other people's opinions.....even though I disagree with 95% of yours.

I hope to catch up in Round 1 maybe.....

Be safe and drive carefully.

[Sojourner]

Letter of reply from Tony Abbott to Wayne Swan,


The Hon. Tony Abbott MHR
Leader of the Opposition

23 December 2011

The Hon Wayne Swan MP
Acting Prime Minister
Parliament House
CANBERRA ACT 2600


Dear Mr Swan

I am writing in response to the Government’s written proposal regarding offshore processing
that we received after 6pm last night.

First, I want to thank you for providing the Coalition with your policy position. It is important
that any discussions about border protection policy start with a clear understanding of what
the Government’s latest policy position entails.

As you know, the Coalition’s policy on border protection is clear. For over a decade, we have
consistently held the view that Australia’s border protection policies must include offshore
processing, Temporary Protection Visas and turning boats around where it is safe to do so.
These are the policies that we implemented in Government and which you abolished in early
2008. The Coalition remains steadfast in our determination to support effective policy to
protect our borders and stop the boats.

Second, I note that your letter yesterday emphatically rules out Temporary Protection Visas.
This position contradicts your own statements in the media earlier the same day where you
said that the Government was willing to consider “all possible options”. I am not sure what
has brought about this change in position during the day but am disappointed with this
reversal as the Coalition believes that the reintroduction of Temporary Protection Visas is
fundamental to any policy to stop the boats. Despite your rejection, the urgent reintroduction
of Temporary Protection Visas will remain Coalition policy because it is fundamental to
denying the people smugglers a product to sell.

I will now turn to the Government’s proposal.

The Coalition is prepared to meet with the Government to discuss the re-establishment of
offshore processing in Nauru and Papua New Guinea. We do not believe that legislation is
required but, should it prove necessary, are prepared to work with the Government to progress
it in line with our established processes and as expeditiously as possible. Of course, what’s
really required for offshore processing to resume in Nauru is for you to open discussions with
the Nauruan Government as the Coalition has been urging for the past two years.

Mr Scott Morrison, Shadow Minister for Immigration and Citizenship and the Hon Julie
Bishop, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, have made themselves available for a meeting
at any time today and throughout the Christmas period. We believe that this issue requires the
cooperation of both the immigration and foreign affairs portfolios because all processing
centres will be located outside Australia. We therefore expect that the meeting will also
include the Foreign Minister, the Hon Kevin Rudd, in addition to Minister Bowen.

On the matter of the Government’s demand that the Coalition support the Malaysian people
swap, I make the point once again that the Coalition does not support this flawed policy. We
have consistently said for over six months that it is a cruel deal for asylum seekers because it
does not guarantee the basic human rights of those sent to Malaysia. It is also a bad deal for
Australia because it is capped at 800 places and, for this, we take 4000 people from Malaysia.
Self-evidently, the threat of it has not stopped the boats.

Our position has not changed.

Consistency matters in our public life. Leaders must stick by their decisions if the Australian
people are to believe that they are worthy of trust. The Coalition has said it does not support
the Malaysian people swap for the reasons we have repeatedly outlined. However, just as you
have made it clear you rule out TPVs but want the discussions with the Coalition to proceed, I
make it clear we are also willing to meet but note that nothing has changed regarding our
position and objections to the Malaysian people-swap.

If the Government still wants to pursue the Malaysian people swap-policy, it should enlist the
support of its alliance/coalition partners, the Greens, to secure its passage through the
Parliament.

Mr Morrison’s office will make contact with Minister Bowen to settle arrangements for the
meeting between themselves and Mr Rudd and Ms Bishop without delay.

Yours sincerely

TONY ABBOTT

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011 ... letter.pdf

[redandblack]

Consistency matters so change your position to ours

We wont compromise at all.

No, no, no, no.......

[Jimmy_041]

Someone asked me the question yesterday

If the Govt now has the numbers in the lower house, and can muster the numbers in the upper house to defeat the coalition, why do they need the coalition to agree to anything?

I couldn't answer that question - can someone please explain an answer to me

Thanks

[Jimmy_041]

Clearly must be!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/pri ... 6227960780

Soj, quoting Limited News publications as back up is lightweight stuff.

Quoting Miranda Devine's opinion is even worse.

You like facts R&B - is what she saying incorrect?

From a high of 43 boats a year the numbers dwindled to three a year. Today we are getting three boats a week, crammed with many more people.

When the Rudd government took office, there were just four boat people in detention. But he and Gillard between them deliberately and systematically dismantled our border protection policies, for no useful purpose. They thought they knew better and now we see they knew nothing.

Since they took office, 270 boats have arrived, carrying more than 14,000 people. Christmas Island and mainland detention centres are overflowing, riots are common and single males are being released into the community even though they have not been found to be refugees.

[Q.]

You like facts R&B - is what she saying incorrect?

From a high of 43 boats a year the numbers dwindled to three a year. Today we are getting three boats a week, crammed with many more people.

When the Rudd government took office, there were just four boat people in detention. But he and Gillard between them deliberately and systematically dismantled our border protection policies, for no useful purpose. They thought they knew better and now we see they knew nothing.

Since they took office, 270 boats have arrived, carrying more than 14,000 people. Christmas Island and mainland detention centres are overflowing, riots are common and single males are being released into the community even though they have not been found to be refugees.

The last point is questionable and is basically fear mongering.

What she fails to mention is that our trends have always been consistent with worldwide trends, and although the UNHCR's 2011 statistics and report is yet to be released, it is likely to show the same again this year.

Also, this year's trends are similar to those in 2010, which suggests that the blocking of the offshore processing by the High Court probably hasn't had the effect that the sensationalism suggests:

[fish]

Someone asked me the question yesterday

If the Govt now has the numbers in the lower house, and can muster the numbers in the upper house to defeat the coalition, why do they need the coalition to agree to anything?

I couldn't answer that question - can someone please explain an answer to me

Thanks

Not sure Jimmy but I think it may be because the Greens don't support the governments proposals.

[Jimmy_041]

Here are some facts:

Labor wins government in December 2007



Hard to argue that their illegal immigration policy has worked

The words disastrous and incompetent come to mind

[Q.]

It's not illegal to seek asylum via boats.

Therefore, they aren't 'illegal immigration' policies and it's then not 'disastrous' that people seek asylum via boats.

What was 'disastrous' was the policy of turning boats away at gunpoint, ie. 2002-2007.

[southee]

Spot on Jimmy......but I am sure that graph will be "scoffed" at by the people on here that think it's all made up.

It's a FACT but the usual suspects say it ain't true.

[Q.]

The graph only shows arrivals. Lots of boats still left for Australia during the period 2002-2007, however they were turned away at gunpoint in what was an utterly disgraceful policy.

The fact that the issue of maritime arrivals is once again being used a political football is shameful, and the fact that we again want to return to those days of turning boats away at gunpoint and processing them offshore makes me sick.

[redandblack]

The government only has the numbers in the Senate if the Greens support them. If they don't, they would need the Liberals to support them to get the numbers.

[redandblack]

Clearly must be!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/pri ... 6227960780

Soj, quoting Limited News publications as back up is lightweight stuff.

Quoting Miranda Devine's opinion is even worse.

You like facts R&B - is what she saying incorrect?

From a high of 43 boats a year the numbers dwindled to three a year. Today we are getting three boats a week, crammed with many more people.

When the Rudd government took office, there were just four boat people in detention. But he and Gillard between them deliberately and systematically dismantled our border protection policies, for no useful purpose. They thought they knew better and now we see they knew nothing.

Since they took office, 270 boats have arrived, carrying more than 14,000 people. Christmas Island and mainland detention centres are overflowing, riots are common and single males are being released into the community even though they have not been found to be refugees.

I just love opinion writers who give their bias away with statements such as 'the Left's posturing army of compassionistas'

Bit of a give-away.

As for the article, plenty of nonsense in it, including the assumption that we can go back to Howard's inhumane policies, that Nauru is legal, despite the High Court's ruling and that you can send back the boats, despite Indonesia saying they'll refuse to take them and the Navy saying it's not safe.

Just another Limited News anti-government bash from another right-wing ideologue.

[Sojourner]

Someone asked me the question yesterday

If the Govt now has the numbers in the lower house, and can muster the numbers in the upper house to defeat the coalition, why do they need the coalition to agree to anything?

I couldn't answer that question - can someone please explain an answer to me

Thanks

Not sure Jimmy but I think it may be because the Greens don't support the governments proposals.

Not sure why some in the media are suggesting that Tony Abbott and the Liberals should meet with the ALP and compromise their position when the Greens who are coalition partners with the ALP are not prepared to meet with them and make compromises to their own position?

[Jimmy_041]

I'm struggling with that one too, Soj.
That's why I couldn't answer it

All this venom against Abbott for not compromising his position, when all Labor have to do is compromise towards the Greens position, and they can all hug together again.

Maybe Gillard is playing politics whilst accusing Abbott of doing so

[redandblack]

Interesting that your whole argument is based on politics, not humanity.

[Jimmy_041]

Interesting response

Surely the Greens position is more humane than either the Govt or the coalition:

The Greens are committed to a long-term, practical and humane approach to asylum seekers and refugees that rejects the failed policies of detention of children, indefinite detention and off-shore processing. We need a policy that upholds Australia’s commitments to international law and human rights.

Why are you not screaming from the hilltops for the Govt to do a deal with the Greens instead of eagerly grasping the opportunity to criticise the coalition who have maintained their policy????

Obviously, your attempt to grab the "humanity" high ground is totally flawed and you have been shown up

I believe that if you make it easier, more people will try, and therefore more people will die trying

[southee]

Interesting that your whole argument is based on politics, not humanity.

You sound like Sarah Hanson young there R&B