APPS - now what do you think?

[Mr Beefy]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

Fine then. That is exactly what is meant, as you are fully aware. Thats why the salary cap is certainly not the answer. Just exactly what it is - I am not exactly sure at the moment

Be interesting if someone goes down the restraint of trade path as then they might need to be prepared to explain to the taxman that they get paid for this "trade" but it is only a hobby and shouldn't be taxed.

[Mr Beefy]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

If a club sponsor pays the player (in some fashion) is the club technically cheating if they claim that they do not pay the player...... I dont think so ... but they are manipulating the system

Yes
31.1.8 Payments by Sponsors, Supporters etc
Each Affiliated League Club must provide to the Payments Officer full and complete details of all payments made:
31.1.8.1 by or on behalf of or for the benefit of the Affiliated League Club to any Player or otherwise for the benefit of any Player;
31.1.8.2 to any Players by sponsors, supporters (including supporter groups) or any person or entity associated directly or indirectly with the Club.

[turk186]

Beefy I understand what you say but I did put ( in some fashion) how does a job fall under those rules you posted???

[Yardy Lard]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

Fine then. That is exactly what is meant, as you are fully aware. Thats why the salary cap is certainly not the answer. Just exactly what it is - I am not exactly sure at the moment

Be interesting if someone goes down the restraint of trade path as then they might need to be prepared to explain to the taxman that they get paid for this "trade" but it is only a hobby and shouldn't be taxed.

No one would go down that path. Just as the AFL draft has never been challenged...........would cost far too much.

[SATCHEL]

Beefy I understand what you say but I did put ( in some fashion) how does a job fall under those rules you posted???

Dont think it could. Intangible. No value on a job. So as i have heard in the past from a player form that club taht they get a player sponsor and at the end of each game they get given coin in an envelope and thats their player payment. The sponsor is purely a player sponsor say $200 goes to the club but the rest is under the table. This is only something i was told by a player form that club. Sorry if im talking out of school here i cant be bothered going back over all the previous posts. Salary cap has and can not be policed as much as the league would like to think it can.

[Yank Man]

This is a good post Pengy. For me the points system is the right way to go. I coach because I love the development of clubs and players, but I have been an administrator and coach at A1 and A2. Salary caps are easily fudged if you have cashed up sponsors and people behind the scenes, " I know nothing ". Every association that has now got the points system in place and worked with it over a number of years is getting their head around it. It still needs work and negotiating from clubs in SAAFL but if the league gets it right then it will be a winner in the long term. Promotion and relegation is the left wing of it and it is a bonus other leagues do not have the luxury of. Let's be realistic, the system was not up and running till recruiting was done. Next season will be way way better when clubs understand it a little better. I personally think Kilburn were hard done by, because their intention was not to dud the system but try to understand it. Just an opinion.

[Old Dog New Tricks]

I'm for the points system in theory, however not in it's current form.

I agree, I think it has the potential to satisfy all leagues but we're the only league with promotion and relegation which is a leveller in itself and I doubt there was any thought put into that particualar point by either the cfl or judging from what others have said on here, the then ceo of the amateurs.

hits the nail on the head..

SAAFL wasnt broken..so why try and "fix" it..it was other leagues who had the problems not ours..

How is promotion/relegation system a leveler? 1 club pays 100k+ in player payments because they can, recruit players from another side who cant pay $$ and the club that has lost players gets relegated.... yep sounds level to me

With all due respect FS, your club has benefited more than most from promotion/relegation or more specifically a club who has enjoyed an ability to drop a series of grades to help your club compete in a "level" playing field based on your circumstances at the time or is your memory not that good.

[Blacks130]

How is promotion/relegation system a leveler? 1 club pays 100k+ in player payments because they can, recruit players from another side who cant pay $$ and the club that has lost players gets relegated.... yep sounds level to me

With all due respect FS, your club has benefited more than most from promotion/relegation or more specifically a club who has enjoyed an ability to drop a series of grades to help your club compete in a "level" playing field based on your circumstances at the time or is your memory not that good.

Too right. Modbury have played in 5 grades in the last 15 years and Footy Smart questions the validity of promotion and relegation as a leveler. You're clearly over rating yourself as being Footy smart.

[scottroo]

Any player from a div 1 to div 3 reserves side will now be regarded a 2 point player if transfering out of the saafl

[Gatt_Weasel]

flinders park prime example paid shit load of players when points system came in were well over applyed for concession got it went up into div 2

points system is the answer but SAAFL having no balls when clubs try and push the limit back to square 1 again

[Executive Member]

flinders park prime example paid shit load of players when points system came in were well over applyed for concession got it went up into div 2

points system is the answer but SAAFL having no balls when clubs try and push the limit back to square 1 again

GW all clubs on 15 no exemptions in 2012 or 2013 and beyond
Kilburn lose 3 games for being over

Not sure what you are on about
Are you just being a grub

[Footy Follower]

I am all for the point system, but it needs to be "tweaked."
Having a salary cap would be impossible to police as most people have mentioned. Hell the AFL have trouble doing it. So having a point system is the only real answer. It stops clubs buying their way too premierships.

However their are some things that need to be changed. Like:
- Once you have played over a season (25+ games) for any club you should be worth no points.
- New players coming from the country for study commitments should be worth less or no points. (Clubs would need to lodge this though)
- Players coming from a lower division in the amatuer league (i.e. div 4 or 5) to play in a higher division club should not be worth points
or maybe just 1 point.

I know the second point I made (Study commitments) was a big issue for Walkerville who have a very good affiliation with Aquinas College. Every year we get an influx of players join the club who are living down in Adelaide becuase of study. These guys are not "recruits" that the club has targetted, but rather guys who have friends playing at the club and are looking for a kick and a catch.
All it does by making them worth points is strengthens the reserves side which is shown at Walkies with the reserves playing in the last 5 grand finals!

[Mr Beefy]

So what your saying is that you support clubs in lower divisions getting raided of any good players they may have?

[Footy Chick]

It's called the "reverse robin hood" approach.

Take from the poor and give to the rich.... kind of like the government of the day

[Gatt_Weasel]

flinders park prime example paid shit load of players when points system came in were well over applyed for concession got it went up into div 2

points system is the answer but SAAFL having no balls when clubs try and push the limit back to square 1 again

GW all clubs on 15 no exemptions in 2012 or 2013 and beyond
Kilburn lose 3 games for being over

Not sure what you are on about
Are you just being a grub

i was pointing out a club who flaunted the rules in cash and points in past and move dup a div im all for 15 points in order to keep the game even across the board its the only way long term other wise the game would be rich vs poor

[Footy Follower]

So what your saying is that you support clubs in lower divisions getting raided of any good players they may have?

I was more looking at the side of; if a player wants to better himself by playing a higher standard of footy, he should not have to be restricted because he does not fit under the points in the A grade. But I do see your point too. My first two points I would think most would agree with.

[zedman]

I am all for the point system, but it needs to be "tweaked."
Having a salary cap would be impossible to police as most people have mentioned. Hell the AFL have trouble doing it. So having a point system is the only real answer. It stops clubs buying their way too premierships.

However their are some things that need to be changed. Like:
- Once you have played over a season (25+ games) for any club you should be worth no points.
- New players coming from the country for study commitments should be worth less or no points. (Clubs would need to lodge this though)
- Players coming from a lower division in the amatuer league (i.e. div 4 or 5) to play in a higher division club should not be worth points
or maybe just 1 point.

I know the second point I made (Study commitments) was a big issue for Walkerville who have a very good affiliation with Aquinas College. Every year we get an influx of players join the club who are living down in Adelaide becuase of study. These guys are not "recruits" that the club has targetted, but rather guys who have friends playing at the club and are looking for a kick and a catch.
All it does by making them worth points is strengthens the reserves side which is shown at Walkies with the reserves playing in the last 5 grand finals!

that.. and i would add work commitments..

[finn]

I am all for the point system, but it needs to be "tweaked."
Having a salary cap would be impossible to police as most people have mentioned. Hell the AFL have trouble doing it. So having a point system is the only real answer. It stops clubs buying their way too premierships.

However their are some things that need to be changed. Like:
- Once you have played over a season (25+ games) for any club you should be worth no points.
- New players coming from the country for study commitments should be worth less or no points. (Clubs would need to lodge this though)
- Players coming from a lower division in the amatuer league (i.e. div 4 or 5) to play in a higher division club should not be worth points
or maybe just 1 point.

I know the second point I made (Study commitments) was a big issue for Walkerville who have a very good affiliation with Aquinas College. Every year we get an influx of players join the club who are living down in Adelaide becuase of study. These guys are not "recruits" that the club has targetted, but rather guys who have friends playing at the club and are looking for a kick and a catch.
All it does by making them worth points is strengthens the reserves side which is shown at Walkies with the reserves playing in the last 5 grand finals!

that.. and i would add work commitments..

I've held off for a long time about this point because it affects us more than any club - but players moving from the country/interstate for study at Adelaide University were costing us full points; I'd suggest that these players should be worth minimal points to the institutional club they're attending. Could easily be checked via enrolment records after subject withdrawal dates - and these can't be fudged and would cost players money and grading averages.

[bandar]

I am all for the point system, but it needs to be "tweaked."
Having a salary cap would be impossible to police as most people have mentioned. Hell the AFL have trouble doing it. So having a point system is the only real answer. It stops clubs buying their way too premierships.

However their are some things that need to be changed. Like:
- Once you have played over a season (25+ games) for any club you should be worth no points.
- New players coming from the country for study commitments should be worth less or no points. (Clubs would need to lodge this though)
- Players coming from a lower division in the amatuer league (i.e. div 4 or 5) to play in a higher division club should not be worth points
or maybe just 1 point.

I know the second point I made (Study commitments) was a big issue for Walkerville who have a very good affiliation with Aquinas College. Every year we get an influx of players join the club who are living down in Adelaide becuase of study. These guys are not "recruits" that the club has targetted, but rather guys who have friends playing at the club and are looking for a kick and a catch.
All it does by making them worth points is strengthens the reserves side which is shown at Walkies with the reserves playing in the last 5 grand finals!

that.. and i would add work commitments..

I've held off for a long time about this point because it affects us more than any club - but players moving from the country/interstate for study at Adelaide University were costing us full points; I'd suggest that these players should be worth minimal points to the institutional club they're attending. Could easily be checked via enrolment records after subject withdrawal dates - and these can't be fudged and would cost players money and grading averages.

From last nights meeting there is something in progress to have something happen. There will be some hoops top jump through though by the sound of it. Will have to be signed off at previous club etc.

[Boosh]

I am all for the point system, but it needs to be "tweaked."
Having a salary cap would be impossible to police as most people have mentioned. Hell the AFL have trouble doing it. So having a point system is the only real answer. It stops clubs buying their way too premierships.

However their are some things that need to be changed. Like:
- Once you have played over a season (25+ games) for any club you should be worth no points.
- New players coming from the country for study commitments should be worth less or no points. (Clubs would need to lodge this though)
- Players coming from a lower division in the amatuer league (i.e. div 4 or 5) to play in a higher division club should not be worth points
or maybe just 1 point.

I know the second point I made (Study commitments) was a big issue for Walkerville who have a very good affiliation with Aquinas College. Every year we get an influx of players join the club who are living down in Adelaide becuase of study. These guys are not "recruits" that the club has targetted, but rather guys who have friends playing at the club and are looking for a kick and a catch.
All it does by making them worth points is strengthens the reserves side which is shown at Walkies with the reserves playing in the last 5 grand finals!

that.. and i would add work commitments..

I've held off for a long time about this point because it affects us more than any club - but players moving from the country/interstate for study at Adelaide University were costing us full points; I'd suggest that these players should be worth minimal points to the institutional club they're attending. Could easily be checked via enrolment records after subject withdrawal dates - and these can't be fudged and would cost players money and grading averages.

I can see what you are saying and it does make it hard for you guys as your main recruiting is from the Uni (obviously) but this is the SAAFL not the University Football League and if you want to be in it you should be treated like any other club. Last time I checked there was no University of North Haven so we would not benefit from that rule. Maybe a Wharfie College then we might benefit.