Gillard should go!

[bulldogproud2]

gillard being elected was a classic knee jerk reaction from a country 2 heavly influnced by social media. now we are suffering!

Yes, suffering by having the best performing nation in the western world!

and now a seat on the UN Security Council for the first time in more than 25 years.
Fantastic - but pretty much useless. Still, a definite plus for us
But my local deli down the road just closed!

Labor's interference in regulations that make it almost impossible to employ anyone in a small business and of course the carbon tax which is wrecking everything. (or supposed to be - it hasn't impacted on me other than household bills seem to be higher than they were a year ago)

This is the thing that I can't fathom out about a lot of conservatives. If an individual in society is struggling, they seem to believe it is the fault of the individual and the government should do nothing to assist them. However, if a business is struggling, it cannot be the fault of those running the business, it has to be the fault of the government and the government should bend over backwards to assist them.
There are a number of reasons for why businesses fail: poor decision-making by management; changing conditions in the industry that the business failed to adapt to; changing global conditions; internet sales from overseas; new competition etc. Before blaming the government perhaps it may be worthwhile considering whether some of these factors may have contributed?
Otherwise, please explain to me why there are over 1.9 million successful small businesses in Australia and why that number has been growing under the current Labor Government. Yes, some have closed but a lot more have opened.

Cheers

[Psyber]

This is the thing that I can't fathom out about a lot of conservatives. If an individual in society is struggling, they seem to believe it is the fault of the individual and the government should do nothing to assist them. However, if a business is struggling, it cannot be the fault of those running the business, it has to be the fault of the government and the government should bend over backwards to assist them.
There are a number of reasons for why businesses fail: poor decision-making by management; changing conditions in the industry that the business failed to adapt to; changing global conditions; internet sales from overseas; new competition etc. Before blaming the government perhaps it may be worthwhile considering whether some of these factors may have contributed?
Otherwise, please explain to me why there are over 1.9 million successful small businesses in Australia and why that number has been growing under the current Labor Government. Yes, some have closed but a lot more have opened.

Cheers

That statement is something I can agree with you broadly about, although we may disagree about some specifics.
The philosophy you ascribe to conservatives is, I think, more true of America than here - with a few exceptions, I'm confident most supporters of both our major parties believe in assisting those who are struggling so long as they are trying to support themselves.

There may be some differences of opinion about where the line should be drawn.
I wasn't very sympathetic to a women I once saw who presented complaining of depression because her oldest child was almost old enough for her supporting mothers' benefit to cease and she was unable to get another child despite having tried several different studs. These days I guess she'd be demanding the government fund IVF. On the other hand I once managed to get a (Liberal) SA Premier to intervene actively in the case of a man who was being shafted by WorkCover SA and left high and dry his union.

I agree that business generally has to survive or fall on its own merits, though I believe governments must create an environment in which new businesses can not only start and survive, but can also afford to employ staff. The figures I have read suggest that most new businesses fold within a few years and are replaced by new ones started by optimists, keeping the numbers about the same. New businesses may start as jobs go when former employees move into franchises like "Jim's Mowing".

"Successful" is a relative term.

My own experience in small business as an Art and Craft Gallery operator and later as a computer equipment reseller was that the owners were OK in boom times but spent very long hours for little return (and a lot of paper work after hours) when things tightened up again. I won't even count my losses as a small farmer - that was a lifestyle choice and the losses were offset by tax advantages. (And, I always knew that only Marijuana farming really paid and I wasn't prepared to get into that. )

[bulldogproud2]

True, 60% of businesses fail within their first five years of operation. This is a statistic that has remained relatively the same for the last thirty years. There are a few other reasons for this failure as well. Many small business operators commence business without having really conducted enough research (including market research), have not prepared an indepth business plan (failing to plan is planning to fail), have underestimated the capital requirements, have been too optimistic in their planning or have not developed sufficient allround business skills. Yes, it is not easy running a small business but one cannot simply blame the government if one fails.

We also have to understand that a lot of the regulations that are imposed by government are to protect and safeguard employees and consumers. Employees rely on their employment within the business for their livelihood. We already know that casual employment has increased greatly in recent years. This leaves employees with no job security, lack of opportunity to obtain a loan from a bank (so they are then stuck in having to rent and not own property throughout their life) and makes life very difficult for these employees in general. Businesses, on the other hand, gain greatly from the ability to hire employees on a casual basis. This is one big advantage that businesses have nowadays.

As for consumers, you only have to look at any of the current affair shows to see that there are a number of 'shonky' business operators out there. Regulations are required to ensure that consumers have some protection and legal fallback position re these. If society could trust businesses implicitly, there could definitely be a reduction in regulations. Unfortunately though, this is not the case. Sadly the minority of business operators make it essential for there to be strong regulations.

[Jimmy_041]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/pm-julia-gillard-stitched-up-kevin-rudd/story-e6frea6u-1226499866236

[tiger teddies]

Agree she has got to go. Gosh even K.Rudd would be better surely?

[bulldogproud2]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/pm-julia-gillard-stitched-up-kevin-rudd/story-e6frea6u-1226499866236

True, never been happy with the way the Prime Minister came to lead the party. Nearly as bad as in 2009 when Tony Abbott knifed Malcolm Turnbull and then showed the huge division within the Liberal Party by winning the leadership vote by just one vote, 42 to 41.

[smac]

gillard being elected was a classic knee jerk reaction from a country 2 heavly influnced by social media. now we are suffering!

Yes, suffering by having the best performing nation in the western world!

http://mobile.news.com.au/money/cost-of ... 6500260622

So long as 'the nation' is okay, everyone in it is fine too?

[bulldogproud2]

gillard being elected was a classic knee jerk reaction from a country 2 heavly influnced by social media. now we are suffering!

Yes, suffering by having the best performing nation in the western world!

http://mobile.news.com.au/money/cost-of ... 6500260622

So long as 'the nation' is okay, everyone in it is fine too?

Did you take into account the fact that the article were about price rises over the past decade?? The Liberal Party has been in power for more than half of that decade!! Additionally, Australia's inflation rate was higher during those years on average than during the time the ALP have been in power.

[Sky Pilot]

you can talk conservatism v socialism all you like. The opposing sides are never going to agree. However, Gillard should go and take her pox-ridden government with her. She is an arrogant, whingeing, whining and opportunistic left wing union lawyer with no idea about economics and foreign policy. None!

[bulldogproud2]

you can talk conservatism v socialism all you like. The opposing sides are never going to agree. However, Gillard should go and take her pox-ridden government with her. She is an arrogant, whingeing, whining and opportunistic left wing union lawyer with no idea about economics and foreign policy. None!

Yes, exactly right. That is exactly why the current government is winning plaudits around the world for their wonderful running of the Australian economy through the global financial downturns. Definitely, has to be that they have no idea about economics. Oh, and their winning of a seat on the UN Security Council has absolutely no connection with their ability re foreign policy. Naw, none at all!!!!
Gee, the air up there must be extremely rarified, SP!!!!

[Sky Pilot]

you can talk conservatism v socialism all you like. The opposing sides are never going to agree. However, Gillard should go and take her pox-ridden government with her. She is an arrogant, whingeing, whining and opportunistic left wing union lawyer with no idea about economics and foreign policy. None!

Yes, exactly right. That is exactly why the current government is winning plaudits around the world for their wonderful running of the Australian economy through the global financial downturns. Definitely, has to be that they have no idea about economics. Oh, and their winning of a seat on the UN Security Council has absolutely no connection with their ability re foreign policy. Naw, none at all!!!!
Gee, the air up there must be extremely rarified, SP!!!!

Ohhhhh FFS! Oz is doing well because of the mining boom and the fact that ten years of Howard left us with a massive suplus which idiots like Midnight Oil and the Swanmeister squandered on pink bats, school halls and throwing Liberal party saved cash around like drunken sailors. Millions and millions of $'s were sent to dead people and people who came to Australia for a working holiday and put a tax return in before returning to Greece or Lebanon or New faaaarking Zealand. Just wasted by really, really poor planning done by really, really stupid people who are way out of their depth. The UN seat is a non event but I agree it is good for our status world wide. Are you saying Gillard's brilliance got this for us? HaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaa - I don't think so. We are being governed by idiots my friend. Only 10 months to go.....then let the fun begin!

[bulldogproud2]

you can talk conservatism v socialism all you like. The opposing sides are never going to agree. However, Gillard should go and take her pox-ridden government with her. She is an arrogant, whingeing, whining and opportunistic left wing union lawyer with no idea about economics and foreign policy. None!

Yes, exactly right. That is exactly why the current government is winning plaudits around the world for their wonderful running of the Australian economy through the global financial downturns. Definitely, has to be that they have no idea about economics. Oh, and their winning of a seat on the UN Security Council has absolutely no connection with their ability re foreign policy. Naw, none at all!!!!
Gee, the air up there must be extremely rarified, SP!!!!

Ohhhhh FFS! Oz is doing well because of the mining boom and the fact that ten years of Howard left us with a massive suplus which idiots like Midnight Oil and the Swanmeister squandered on pink bats, school halls and throwing Liberal party saved cash around like drunken sailors. Millions and millions of $'s were sent to dead people and people who came to Australia for a working holiday and put a tax return in before returning to Greece or Lebanon or New faaaarking Zealand. Just wasted by really, really poor planning done by really, really stupid people who are way out of their depth. The UN seat is a non event but I agree it is good for our status world wide. Are you saying Gillard's brilliance got this for us? HaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaa - I don't think so. We are being governed by idiots my friend. Only 10 months to go.....then let the fun begin!

SP, you are an absolute idiot and it is the last time I ever reply to one of your troll messages!!!!

[Sky Pilot]

Truth hurts when it is in your face. I'm happy to not correspond with you on politics but I'm always happy to talk footy.

[smac]

gillard being elected was a classic knee jerk reaction from a country 2 heavly influnced by social media. now we are suffering!

Yes, suffering by having the best performing nation in the western world!

http://mobile.news.com.au/money/cost-of ... 6500260622

So long as 'the nation' is okay, everyone in it is fine too?

Did you take into account the fact that the article were about price rises over the past decade?? The Liberal Party has been in power for more than half of that decade!! Additionally, Australia's inflation rate was higher during those years on average than during the time the ALP have been in power.

I wasn't referring to any political party. I was referring to the fact that things aren't as rosey as your statistics would have us believe.

You keep telling yourself things are okay. I'll stop out here in the real world and form opinions of my own.

[bulldogproud2]

Smac, point taken although why post it on a 'Gillard should go' thread when it was about prices rising under both sides of politics, and more so under the Liberals than Labor??
However, out of all the western countries in the world, where would you rather be at the moment??

By the way, you will find that we are on average $23 a day better off than we were in 2005:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2732638.html

This looks at all costs, not just the few that your article looked at.

Or perhaps this article, which comes to the same conclusion:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/05/03/kea ... cal-level/

or maybe this one:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-02/i ... re/3984690

Those who are doing it tough and have not enjoyed increases in income equal to CPI are actually those on welfare!!

Cheers

[smac]

It was in reply to your "everything is great post", but I could have chosen better, most definitely.

On my phone I don't look at thread titles too closely, I might need to start.

[bulldogproud2]

It was in reply to your "everything is great post", but I could have chosen better, most definitely.

On my phone I don't look at thread titles too closely, I might need to start.

I will agree that not everyone is living a comfortable life here in Australia. That is why I do a fair bit of voluntary work with Fred's Van and Saint Vinnies and also support Labor ideology. It is those who are on welfare who are struggling in society, sad to say.

Cheers

[Q.]

You keep telling yourself things are okay. I'll stop out here in the real world and form opinions of my own.

Meh, the real world is full of confirmation bias

[overloaded]

you can talk conservatism v socialism all you like. The opposing sides are never going to agree. However, Gillard should go and take her pox-ridden government with her. She is an arrogant, whingeing, whining and opportunistic left wing union lawyer with no idea about economics and foreign policy. None!

Yes, exactly right. That is exactly why the current government is winning plaudits around the world for their wonderful running of the Australian economy through the global financial downturns. Definitely, has to be that they have no idea about economics. Oh, and their winning of a seat on the UN Security Council has absolutely no connection with their ability re foreign policy. Naw, none at all!!!!
Gee, the air up there must be extremely rarified, SP!!!!

Ohhhhh FFS! Oz is doing well because of the mining boom and the fact that ten years of Howard left us with a massive suplus which idiots like Midnight Oil and the Swanmeister squandered on pink bats, school halls and throwing Liberal party saved cash around like drunken sailors. Millions and millions of $'s were sent to dead people and people who came to Australia for a working holiday and put a tax return in before returning to Greece or Lebanon or New faaaarking Zealand. Just wasted by really, really poor planning done by really, really stupid people who are way out of their depth. The UN seat is a non event but I agree it is good for our status world wide. Are you saying Gillard's brilliance got this for us? HaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaa - I don't think so. We are being governed by idiots my friend. Only 10 months to go.....then let the fun begin!

which part of his post isnt true then?

SP, you are an absolute idiot and it is the last time I ever reply to one of your troll messages!!!!

[Jimmy_041]

you can talk conservatism v socialism all you like. The opposing sides are never going to agree. However, Gillard should go and take her pox-ridden government with her. She is an arrogant, whingeing, whining and opportunistic left wing union lawyer with no idea about economics and foreign policy. None!

Yes, exactly right. That is exactly why the current government is winning plaudits around the world for their wonderful running of the Australian economy through the global financial downturns. Definitely, has to be that they have no idea about economics. Oh, and their winning of a seat on the UN Security Council has absolutely no connection with their ability re foreign policy. Naw, none at all!!!!
Gee, the air up there must be extremely rarified, SP!!!!

Probably correct there bp2 $25m
Still, at least we did better than our World Cup bid

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/minchin-says-un-seat-win-disgusting/story-fndo48ca-1226500124414