AFL Reserves Discussion...

All discussions to do with the SANFL

Are you in favour of the proposal for the Crows Reserves to join the SANFL League competition?

Yes
35
17%
No
148
74%
Not fussed either way
18
9%
 
Total votes : 201

Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Booney » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:18 pm

beenreal wrote:
therisingblues wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:
beenreal wrote:Yep, I concur, how dare anyone write about $ANFL clubs standing on their own two feet. It's positively obscene.

and even worse using common sense and logic .... burn him at the stake !!!!! :shock:

Unbelievable, a "give us money we are broke" Power supporter on a vigil to make SANFL clubs stand on their own two feet, being supported by some other citing non present "sense and logic".

Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.
But when your club generates $57M into $ANFL coffers over 15 years, feel free to comment.
But that would make your club an AFL club, not just one that relies on AFL players to field a side.


Apply cold water to the affected area TRB.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:21 pm

zipzap wrote:Via Muddy Waters on db.org. A staggering piece of 'journalism' IMO...



The SANFL/AFL reserves debate for the Adelaide Crows and Port Adelaide Power can be easily solved
Tom Biddington, The Advertiser, September 02, 2013


You play each team home and away. Very straight forward.


Agree? Disagree? Have a better idea? Tweet me!
You can follow Tom Biddington on Twitter - @TomBiddington.



Oi Tom, Triggy has said that the Crows will not play HOME games, and how is it a very straight forward competition when the Crows wont even have a team in the SANFL RESERVES etc.....
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Aerie » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:28 pm

I don't see why it is that difficult and what problem there would be with Port keeping their junior zone as is, provided they want to keep it and meet whatever KPI's are set to ensure standards are upheld.

re Port:
Nothing needs to change, except enforce a rule that top-up players must be Under-22 and name this top up squad of 16 prior to the season starting.

re Crows:
Again, a top up squad of 16 made up of players Under-22. 2 players from the other 8 SANFL clubs named prior to the season starting. They become Crows players, but can play for their original clubs Reserves if not picked. Also, AFL players can be designated an SANFL Reserves club if they're not up to league level and the Crows pick their best 21 each week from AFL leftovers and the squad of 16.

Re the top up players provided to the Crows, every club could give them two that won't play league footy for the year. Looking at the Eagles list they could have a choice of Sam Rowland, Matthew Jacquier, Jarrod Harding, Tim Mackenzie, Tasman Fitzgerald, Alby Dunstan, Joe Sinor, Karl Mueller, Patrick Sinor, Giles Ellis, Justin Smart, Kieran Roberts, Tom Whittlesea, Nick Grimm, Tm Huppatz or Lachlan Jennings. That's 16 players in the senior squad who haven't played league this year, and the Eagles have had close to 50 play league level in 2013.

Both clubs are then handicapped somewhat, given the rest of their list is AFL level. They are also helping to develop young South Aussie footballers to hopefully either be drafted or play at league level at another club once they are over 22/finished being a top up squad player.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Hazydog » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:31 pm

Booney wrote:Agreed. Even more bewildering then that the SANFL has demanded both clubs have the same (yet to be finalised) model.

I cant wait for the first SANFL club to tell Adelaide to "**** off" when they ask for "A couple of tall backman to top-up our reserves".


No problem - just use one of the four ruckmen they are trying to squeeze into one side. Hang on...sorry...just remembered they all have to play in the ruck for their "development" :roll:
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby therisingblues » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:07 pm

Booney wrote:
beenreal wrote:
therisingblues wrote:Unbelievable, a "give us money we are broke" Power supporter on a vigil to make SANFL clubs stand on their own two feet, being supported by some other citing non present "sense and logic".

Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.
But when your club generates $57M into $ANFL coffers over 15 years, feel free to comment.
But that would make your club an AFL club, not just one that relies on AFL players to field a side.


Apply cold water to the affected area TRB.

I think we played better with less AFL reps in our side this year Bean n Boon. And I'm not sure why the Crows have so much cash to throw around yet Port has to beg for it.
Is the stadium deal different? Please let me know.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby whufc » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:09 pm

beenreal wrote:
therisingblues wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:
beenreal wrote:Yep, I concur, how dare anyone write about $ANFL clubs standing on their own two feet. It's positively obscene.


and even worse using common sense and logic .... burn him at the stake !!!!! :shock:

Unbelievable, a "give us money we are broke" Power supporter on a vigil to make SANFL clubs stand on their own two feet, being supported by some other citing non present "sense and logic".


Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.

But when your club generates $57M into $ANFL coffers over 15 years, feel free to comment.

But that would make your club an AFL club, not just one that relies on AFL players to field a side.


Did Port not sign and agree to said financial arrangement.

As these the same people that go buy a house in Parafield Gardens and then complain about overhead noise.

Or the same people that take out a loan at Cash Converters with all the t&c's infront of them and then when they cant afford to pay the loan threaten to take the staff member to court for irresponsible lending.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Pseudo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:25 pm

Aerie wrote:I don't see why it is that difficult and what problem there would be with Port keeping their junior zone as is, provided they want to keep it and meet whatever KPI's are set to ensure standards are upheld.

The only benefit I can see from the Port model to the SANFL clubs is that it obviates the need for the clubs to supply top-up players.

In every other respect it stinks.

A kid in a SANFL club's zone gets brought up in that club's development scheme. He can aspire to play for a SANFL league club, or if he's really good then to be drafted by the Victorian league.

A kid in an AFL club zone gets brought up by an AFL club, with recourse to the time and monetary resources of that AFL club. His aspirations are:
1 - be drafted, with a 17/18 chance that he'll end up at one of his club's rivals. Hard to see how that benefits the mother AFL club.
2 - play as a second-string player to a team full of AFL players; limited in his options by the need to play AFL players in their preferred positions.
3 - if he's any good, trade to another SANFL club. So much for maintaining links with the community; The AFL team is bringing up local kids to play for other communities.

The key criterion for determining whether or not a kids plays in a SANFL development stream or an AFL development stream is a matter of simple geography. Live on the LeFevre peninsula (or whatever) and you get AFL-level development but with minimal chance of ever playing for your club. Live anywhere else and you get the stock-standard SANFL treatment but with a reasonable career path through that club. Should a kids footballing career path be determined solely by his parents' street address?

No AFL club has any business in running development zones. This is why the Port model sucks. The Crows model sucks too, but for different reasons.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby topsywaldron » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:31 pm

beenreal wrote:Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.


How much bullshit can one person post?

There's a museum in Hobart with a room just made for beenreal.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Aerie » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:57 pm

Pseudo wrote:
Aerie wrote:I don't see why it is that difficult and what problem there would be with Port keeping their junior zone as is, provided they want to keep it and meet whatever KPI's are set to ensure standards are upheld.

The only benefit I can see from the Port model to the SANFL clubs is that it obviates the need for the clubs to supply top-up players.

In every other respect it stinks.

A kid in a SANFL club's zone gets brought up in that club's development scheme. He can aspire to play for a SANFL league club, or if he's really good then to be drafted by the Victorian league.

A kid in an AFL club zone gets brought up by an AFL club, with recourse to the time and monetary resources of that AFL club. His aspirations are:
1 - be drafted, with a 17/18 chance that he'll end up at one of his club's rivals. Hard to see how that benefits the mother AFL club.
2 - play as a second-string player to a team full of AFL players; limited in his options by the need to play AFL players in their preferred positions.
3 - if he's any good, trade to another SANFL club. So much for maintaining links with the community; The AFL team is bringing up local kids to play for other communities.

The key criterion for determining whether or not a kids plays in a SANFL development stream or an AFL development stream is a matter of simple geography. Live on the LeFevre peninsula (or whatever) and you get AFL-level development but with minimal chance of ever playing for your club. Live anywhere else and you get the stock-standard SANFL treatment but with a reasonable career path through that club. Should a kids footballing career path be determined solely by his parents' street address?

No AFL club has any business in running development zones. This is why the Port model sucks. The Crows model sucks too, but for different reasons.


From a Port perspective, it is more to do with the marketing of the club IMO. They are a community club, point of difference to their main rival.

From an SANFL perspective, it gives less work to do for existing clubs. Keeps Port Magpies still a community club so shouldn't lose as much support.

From my clubs perspective, taking over a fair portion of Port's zone and having to give up a lesser portion of our existing zone would be a disaster IMO. Imagine having to give up Henley and taking over Semaphore, Alberton and Port Adelaide. Good luck converting those people/businesses to support the Eagles in the SANFL over the Power Reserves/Power AFL side already established in their area.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby UK Fan » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:25 pm

topsywaldron wrote:
beenreal wrote:Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.


How much bullshit can one person post?

There's a museum in Hobart with a room just made for beenreal.



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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby LPH » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:27 pm

topsywaldron wrote:
beenreal wrote:Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.


How much bullshit can one person post?

There's a museum in Hobart with a room just made for beenreal.


Fair Call there... =D>
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby LPH » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:28 pm

The deal for the SANFL with either AFL team continues to get worse :shock:
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby therisingblues » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:05 pm

topsywaldron wrote:
beenreal wrote:Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.


How much bullshit can one person post?

There's a museum in Hobart with a room just made for beenreal.

Is this the most spot on post in safooty history?
Well played sir! =D>
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby FlyingHigh » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:50 am

Pseudo wrote:
Aerie wrote:I don't see why it is that difficult and what problem there would be with Port keeping their junior zone as is, provided they want to keep it and meet whatever KPI's are set to ensure standards are upheld.

The only benefit I can see from the Port model to the SANFL clubs is that it obviates the need for the clubs to supply top-up players.

In every other respect it stinks.

A kid in a SANFL club's zone gets brought up in that club's development scheme. He can aspire to play for a SANFL league club, or if he's really good then to be drafted by the Victorian league.

A kid in an AFL club zone gets brought up by an AFL club, with recourse to the time and monetary resources of that AFL club. His aspirations are:
1 - be drafted, with a 17/18 chance that he'll end up at one of his club's rivals. Hard to see how that benefits the mother AFL club.
2 - play as a second-string player to a team full of AFL players; limited in his options by the need to play AFL players in their preferred positions.
3 - if he's any good, trade to another SANFL club. So much for maintaining links with the community; The AFL team is bringing up local kids to play for other communities.

The key criterion for determining whether or not a kids plays in a SANFL development stream or an AFL development stream is a matter of simple geography. Live on the LeFevre peninsula (or whatever) and you get AFL-level development but with minimal chance of ever playing for your club. Live anywhere else and you get the stock-standard SANFL treatment but with a reasonable career path through that club. Should a kids footballing career path be determined solely by his parents' street address?

No AFL club has any business in running development zones. This is why the Port model sucks. The Crows model sucks too, but for different reasons.


Agree they shouldn't be running development zones solely on their own, but I reckon the whole situation would be improved by going back to a semi-zone, semi-draft situation all over Australia, which would strengthen the structure of footy and provide an AFL reserves/development league.

Each AFL club is given a zone, pretty simple in the two-club states. IN SA, SANFL clubs would keep running like they are, but be divided perhaps on a northwest/southeast basis for recruiting. There seem to be enough good players coming out of Qld and NSW these days for those clubs to have recruiting zones there. Victorian clubs would be reallocated zones, with perhaps Hawthorn and North Melbourne allocated northern and southern Tassie respectively, and a restructured VFL/TAC to align with Victorian clubs for recruiting but be able to run autonomously.

AFL clubs would be able to choose 2 players from their zones before the draft. If there were population issues, clubs with smaller bases could choose 3 or perhaps have a special first-round of the draft (which in effect would be about 37-45th pick). All other players into draft and rookie draft which precede as normal. Clubs then choose top-up players from their zones, being undrafted players first year out of u/18s, for a maximum of two years with first right to upgrade at the end of the year (but not any time like rookies) as discussed elsewhere on this thread. Rules needed to clubs don't "hide" players from other teams.

Under this system, a Toumpas or Aish would remain with SANFL clubs until drafting age, and probably Port and the Crows, respectively would get first crack at them. The system wouldn't preclude a Matthew Wright from playing for the Crows, just that Port have first choice of him in their 2 picks.

Port Magpies, East Perth and Peel Thunder become legitimate clubs again, and there would be a strong, consistent structure for the SANFL, WAFL, QAFL, Sydney league to work in and towards.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby beenreal » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:05 am

topsywaldron wrote:
beenreal wrote:Last Saturday against Carlton summed up Port Adelaide's financial "arrangement" perfectly. 45,000 through the gate, yet the PAFC nets less than $200k of the takings.


How much bullshit can one person post?

There's a museum in Hobart with a room just made for beenreal.


So you're writing that the PAFC made more from the gate Topsy?

Cool, tell us how much?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Dogwatcher » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:10 am

I'm trying to figure out how SANFL clubs are 'relying' on AFL players.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby The Sleeping Giant » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:58 am

Dogwatcher wrote:I'm trying to figure out how SANFL clubs are 'relying' on AFL players.

Especially the ones who are still at their original club.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby beenreal » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:03 pm

The Sleeping Giant wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:I'm trying to figure out how SANFL clubs are 'relying' on AFL players.

Especially the ones who are still at their original club.


But are no longer being paid by their original club
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby The Sleeping Giant » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:16 pm

Not sure why thats a big deal either.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby UK Fan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:24 pm

beenreal wrote:
The Sleeping Giant wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:I'm trying to figure out how SANFL clubs are 'relying' on AFL players.

Especially the ones who are still at their original club.


But are no longer being paid by their original club


SANFL clubs pay for use of AFL players .
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