AP 14/06/07 + WHEELER+ MT79+ JOHNNIE+VICGIRL+ROO

[mighty_tiger_79]

Wheeler is a businessman, and took advantage of the generous appearance money on offer. Instead of keeping the best to win the good races, he just named anything with 4 legs and a pulse, and palmed them out to anyone that could capitalise on his plan.
You can't blame Wheeler for finding a way to make money in the greyhound game...after all Sangster did it with the thoroughbreds.

The problem in SA was, and this is why the unrest started, and that was the training (for want of a better word) tactics of those with the Bale dogs. These dogs would be nominated for every meeting available, running 3-4 times a week, being multiple nominated. So what was happening, these low class dogs, with a placing to their name, were getting starts, and in most cases, most of the fields were filled with Wheeler's dogs.

The punters did not want to bet on them. Small breeders stopped breeding, and basically, the industry in SA started to close down. People with grade 5 dogs couldn't get a start, and when you can't race, you can't win money. No money means the local suppliers aren't selling meat and products. Local breeders cant sell their pups, and generally, the whole system was crashing.

No, you can't blame Wheeler. He's a genius. But typical of smart business men...they don't give a f*** who they tread on. He only came up with the plan, it's the way it was implemented that hurt SA.
Do you really think Collins started training cos he's good at it? He got into the system cos there was money to be made. And how many times did you see his groupies running round laying big bets on the roughie..and it got up.
And you wonder why people spat at the Bale dogs.

Some of the country tracks are too old and far away to be worth injecting more money into. It's all very well to say the locals need them, but if you can't make money on the tracks, they have to close. Well maybe not completely, but relegated to limited meetings, and if the locals want to keep going on their own backs for trials etc, good on them, let them do that.
The only way money can go back into the races is by TAB turnover, and pokies.
Forget the restaurant bullshlt, and gate takings. It's what betting goes on, and no one wants to bet on a Wheeler race, or a bunch of non chasing cats on some country track.

Boost the prizemoney at Angle Park, and keep the good dogs there, and encourage more good dogs to race there. Betting will improve, turnover will increase, return will benefit the trainers.

Vicgirl, always nice to see you back home.

the best post on the topic

[Booney]

Wheeler is a businessman, and took advantage of the generous appearance money on offer. Instead of keeping the best to win the good races, he just named anything with 4 legs and a pulse, and palmed them out to anyone that could capitalise on his plan.
You can't blame Wheeler for finding a way to make money in the greyhound game...after all Sangster did it with the thoroughbreds.

The problem in SA was, and this is why the unrest started, and that was the training (for want of a better word) tactics of those with the Bale dogs. These dogs would be nominated for every meeting available, running 3-4 times a week, being multiple nominated. So what was happening, these low class dogs, with a placing to their name, were getting starts, and in most cases, most of the fields were filled with Wheeler's dogs.

The punters did not want to bet on them. Small breeders stopped breeding, and basically, the industry in SA started to close down. People with grade 5 dogs couldn't get a start, and when you can't race, you can't win money. No money means the local suppliers aren't selling meat and products. Local breeders cant sell their pups, and generally, the whole system was crashing.

No, you can't blame Wheeler. He's a genius. But typical of smart business men...they don't give a f*** who they tread on. He only came up with the plan, it's the way it was implemented that hurt SA.
Do you really think Collins started training cos he's good at it? He got into the system cos there was money to be made. And how many times did you see his groupies running round laying big bets on the roughie..and it got up.
And you wonder why people spat at the Bale dogs.

Some of the country tracks are too old and far away to be worth injecting more money into. It's all very well to say the locals need them, but if you can't make money on the tracks, they have to close. Well maybe not completely, but relegated to limited meetings, and if the locals want to keep going on their own backs for trials etc, good on them, let them do that.
The only way money can go back into the races is by TAB turnover, and pokies.
Forget the restaurant bullshlt, and gate takings. It's what betting goes on, and no one wants to bet on a Wheeler race, or a bunch of non chasing cats on some country track.

Boost the prizemoney at Angle Park, and keep the good dogs there, and encourage more good dogs to race there. Betting will improve, turnover will increase, return will benefit the trainers.

Vicgirl, always nice to see you back home.

Sounds like fev and the big V girl know whats going on.....?

[vicgirl]

Thank you i hope it will be good to be home.
I agree withyour post with the exception the you say its wheeler that devised the plan well he doesnt tell them how where or when to race them that was their choice they could have placed them with more discretion but they chose to race them all the time. I must admit sometimes i think my dogs are getting giddy they go round so much but i try to race them 3 times in 10 days then give them 7 off doesnt always work that was with beating the grader and if you have poor form you just nom everywhere and pray

Steve and heather did a great job and are really nice people and took advantage of the fact its so hard to win in vic and the castoffs were good adelaide class dogs but unfortunatly to make money in sa they had to have 20 racing and to have that many racing they had to back up week in week out but they did cut and run as well.

You will be happy to know i dont bet so there wont be any roughies getting up with my money on HAHA i could stop a train

[mal]

VICGIRL
you are involved with training of dogs
In your honest opinion please
Are dogs that race once a week fitter, sharper, or better off fitness wise
than dogs that race 3 times a week.

[vicgirl]

I think it depends on the individual dog some dogs thrive on racing as they are not worked in between but some only like once a week.
I think you will find the dogs that race less are trialed alot so invariably they are having the same amount of runs behind a lure its just not "disclosed form"
The good trainers over here D Mcdonald etc that only race their dogs say every week every 10 days but they are always trialed somewhere if they have more than 7 days off.
I work on the theory that every trial is 1 less race you get out of a dog so i tend to race more and trial less but in saying that i wouldnt deliberatly race them 2 days apart etc its always monday - fri or wed - sat.

[furrrvola]

Sensible reply Vicgirl.
Some dogs can't run more than once a week, and others need it. All depends on the distance too.
Apart from some greedy trainers, most of the top class dogs you only see go around once a week.
What I can't understand is why a some people have to trial their dog twice a week in between racing each week, can't hold a dog back for slow work like the horses, so every time you run a dog, it's going flat out.

Might head down to the trots tonight..say seeya to Soky.

[mighty_tiger_79]

There was a dog that in its career which spanded over two states, it is sadly no longer with us, on avg had a run every 4.6 days or something and it had close to 100 starts for a guess.

[mighty_tiger_79]

i think that the premiership trainer should be based on runners-winners with a minimum of winners required, that would show who the good trainers are.........

[vicgirl]

Alot does depend on distance too i have a short courser who can have up to 3 weeks off just free galloping at home and race well and a stayer who if he has a week off totally loses muscle tone and turns into a big slob (i shoudl also mention he is very lasy in the work run).
I have been involved in the trots as well and the trainer i knew who is very successful fast worked them every 4th day say they were racing monday they would be fast worked on the friday. Unfortunatly with a greyhound we cant really control their speed handslipping free galloping etc are all great but some are too hard workers and some too lazy. My opinion is a greyhound starts to lose fitness and muscle tone after 4 days off.
You really have to have a race plan eg my dog 'Harry' only races once a week (he has bad kidneys) he races sat night has sunday off then works in the straight everyday till thur has friday off races saturday. Where as another dog "Cheeky" who doesnt have any problems races saturday and wednesday then the following saturday but her routine at home is she only has 1 free gallop on the monday so whos doing the most work??

[mal]

The difference between a trial and a race start is that
most dogs trial solo and will pull up ok
Put in a race they get interference and may pull up sore.

Another observation of mine is:
OPEN grade dogs usually race once a week
LOWER grade dogs can race up to 3 days a week.
Is there a message in that ?

Agree SOME dogs can race 3 times a week but at some stage they
will get interference and MIGHT be below peak fitness the start after.
As a punter this is a problem when anaylising a dogs prospects
The trainers know how the dogs pull up the punters dont.

MT79 and I have to spend a lot of time on course ascertaining which dogs
are fit from a few trainers we know.

[mal]

i think that the premiership trainer should be based on runners-winners with a minimum of winners required, that would show who the good trainers are.........

Excellent point Mr Tigerboy
Perhaps 2 wins for open grade wins
Perhaps stakemoney per runners raced ratio
Perhaps best strike rate per winner per dogs raced
Perhaps a premiership for the trainer that trains the most losers[In SA
that would be the trainer with the most winners as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

And not perhaps the winners of the last few trainers winners premierships
are also not neccessarily the best trainers.

In all fairness to Shaun Matcott, he has the most winners in 2007
But he is still some distance away from the leading trainers in SA

[vicgirl]

i agree mal if a dog that needs to lead to win is racing once a week and not leading it is going to lose fitness as it is not trying as hard as if it leads.

My biggest problem with moving back to SA with my current team is i have is they are nearly all slow early which is not a good thing at apk and 6 are 600m dogs which there is also a lack of there.

I think i have 2 that if they stay sound should be top grade performers over there but the rest are grade 5s which to make enough money to cover costs will have to beat the grader go up and down the grades etc

[vicgirl]

leading sa trainers strike rates
Shaun Matcott 555 starters 81 winners 14.59%
Lisa Rasmussen 441 starters 50 winners 11.33%
Matt Payne 218 starters 50 winners 22.93%
Karen Wittholz 177 starters 48 winners 27.11%
Petar Jovanovic 244 starters 47 winners 19.26 %

[mighty_tiger_79]

so VICGIRL, you will be able to lead the room into a few winners????

[mal]

leading sa trainers strike rates
Shaun Matcott 555 starters 81 winners 14.59%
Lisa Rasmussen 441 starters 50 winners 11.33%
Matt Payne 218 starters 50 winners 22.93%
Karen Wittholz 177 starters 48 winners 27.11%
Petar Jovanovic 244 starters 47 winners 19.26 %

Shes one of the best ever my girl Karen WITTOLTZ
As MT said look at the strike rates

Not picking on Shaun Matcott but if you have 2-3-4- dogs in a race at times,
that does improve the strike rate
WITTOLTZ would rarely have more than 1 dog in a race.

[vicgirl]

I dont bet or tip for the simple reason i am hopeless

[magpie in the 80's]

I dont bet or tip for the simple reason i am hopeless

hhhhmmmm a hopeless female

[jonnie]

MAL HOW DO YOU FIGURE IF YOU HAVE 2,3,OR4 DOGS IN A RACE IT IMPROVES YOUR STRIKE RATE IT MIGHT FOR THAT RACE BUT NOT OVERALL IT MAKES IT WORSE AND FOR FURVOLA MAYBE HE SHOULD OF FOLLOWED THE MONEY ON COLLINS DOGS AND HE MAY OF MADE A QUID IT SOUNDS LIKE COLLINS KNEW HOW TO TRAIN IF THEY GOT ON THE RIGHT DOG AS HE SAYS THEY DID. SOUNDS A VERY INTELLIGENT PERSON HA. HA. GO VIC GIRL

[mighty_tiger_79]

lets follow the money on the Collins Dogs, you need an endless bank balance!!!!!!!!!