great & poor 'pie' bookies of the past

[bayman]

obviously there will be a lot more 'pie' bookies than great ones, here is just a start,

poor bookies
r.v dunford
leo duigan
mad max choate
jack cronin
robert cronin
john thornton
m.siney

great bookies
keith johnson (was a very nasty man to his workers)
ron bannear
a.r.gill
m.dowd
jim easom

there are heaps more of for both columns so feel free to add & give an opinion

[centreman]

Bayman only some of the above were good bookies who could survive when times got tougher.

Easy in the old days when it was a licence to make money!!!!!!
Not so these days.

Some of the blokes on this forum should be applying for a bookmakers licence and start fielding at the tracks.
Put your bond up, get your licence!!!!
Theres a few blokes on here who would become millionaries in NO TIME i reckon. NOT!!!!!!

[bayman]

centreman, read properly there are 2 lists up there

[mal]

BEST BOOKIES

John Holness
John Gray
Keith Johnson
Bob Dunford
Curly Seal
Peter Damerell
Micheal Webster
Jimmy Easom
Greg Stewart
John Mcbain
Robert Forster
John Pope
TCB [Ten cents Better]
Glen Hefford
Ed Betro
Frank Cole


BAD BOOKIES

John Thornton

[bayman]

BEST BOOKIES

John Holness
John Gray
Keith Johnson
Bob Dunford
Curly Seal
Peter Damerell
Micheal Webster
Jimmy Easom
Greg Stewart
John Mcbain
Robert Forster
John Pope
TCB [Ten cents Better]
Glen Hefford
Ed Betro
Frank Cole


BAD BOOKIES

John Thornton

some of those names are in the present, i've specifically asked for 'in the past', obviously the drive was too long for you today going to noarlunga

[SCD]

Easy in the old days when it was a licence to make money!!!!!!
Not so these days.

Spot on the mark Centreman... I couldn't even be one - because I risk too many horses that win - that I think are no value..
These days the bookies have a couple of things against them..
1) Technology - everyone has access to tv replays and can pick winners a lot easier now
2) Less Patronage - less idiots to hand over their $5 e/w on the $100 rank outsider.
3) Costs involved in training / owning horses - costs have gone thorugh the roof and prizemoney has stayed the same as 10 years ago - only way to make money is to back your horse the night it's expected to go good... a few smart stables do that and hurt the bookmakers these days also!!

[centreman]

can read bayman!!! well aware of two lists.
Agree SCD,
To survive as a bookmaker these days have to be a good form student

Point i was making alot of complaining and blowing up own tyres on this forum from some blokes who seem to be experts on everything, never back a loser and aways take negative look/snipe at things, rather than look at big picture.

Mal guess your not a big fan of John Thornton?????
Some good names on your list mal, Any bookie who has been able to make a living off bookmaking through good old times and in today's much tougher world of bookmaking has done a good job in my book.

[Dutchy]

Bad Bookie - anyone who is stupid enough to get screwed by some very very smart punters!!!! (read give PUNITAB odds!!)

[centreman]

Just question Dutchy,

Is a very very smart punter,
1# a person who wins for the year and survives off his gambling. (which there are a limited number of around australia, but this forum is lucky enough to have a few of)
Or
2# a person who may get a collect a long the way, but loses his money over the year. Get money from other avenues to cover there gambling and bookies/betting shops survive off. Cos even the worst punter backs a winner from time to time.

Which one is it?

[Dutchy]

1 easily....Ive learnt that by being 2 for a while but by being smart and disciplined you can turn things around and be in the No. 1 category (mind you not making an earning but a nice side income)

[mal]

Bookmakers are in it for $$$$
Its thier livelyhood and must respond accordingly
They have overheads and taxes to pay on top of earning a wage.

Punters generally punt for recreational purposes
They love the thrill, excitement, but if a punter
has to earn a living from the punt its extremely difficult
To be good + disciplined negates pleasure
To be enticing and carefree and content = lack of success.

I am as you would all know a winner at gambling.
But I am in a minority.
I am very disciplined and bet according to percentages + probability.
Those who know me know that when the odds are in my favour I will bet up to $200 a bet
But if they are not in my favour I bet nothing or about $1 to $5

Todays bookies have an unprecedented challenge
The punters with technology have bridged the gap
The mugs have all but disapeered off the courses.

Bookies like Peter Damerell are surviving with thier wits and know how.
He is doing a fine job and will go down in history as one of the best modern day bookies.

[Joey]

BAYMAN must take you to task over your placing of ROBERT CRONIN on your list of poor/pie Bookmakers of the past. In my experience he was one of the best to deal with and prepared bet to risk amounts that would be hard to get off all but the biggest bookies still fielding in SA today. He was also one of the few bookies i have dealt with both for myself and as an agent for other far bigger punters than me that would let you on Pre-Post to win significant amounts at the price he had in his book. His demise as a bookmaker bought about as i understand it in part by the success of SA based syndicate (who caused pain to bookies all over Australia by the way) And in particular by a MALAYSIAN group of punters who left him on for a very substantial sum was a sad day for his regular clients.

[Pumper]

How are you judging who was a good/bad bookie ?
As an expat SA boy now interstate, I worked on the racecourse
for many years for different bookies.
Without getting personal, some of the bookies mentioned
as "good" either went broke trying,had other business/job
interests to support bookmaking or were fronts for someone else's
money !
Some who you consider "pie" supported their families for years
from bookmaking
so your perception may not be accurate as no-one really knows
the facts about bookies or how they went over a period of time.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Some of the blokes on this forum should be applying for a bookmakers licence and start fielding at the tracks.
Put your bond up, get your licence!!!!
Theres a few blokes on here who would become millionaries in NO TIME i reckon. NOT!!!!!!

They'd shit themselves blind at the first bloke sprinting towards them with a fistfull of greenbacks.

[bayman]

joey, this isn't a personal attack on anybody & as someone else said we dont know what,when,where & who etc, i'm just asking for what people think from their experiences as you can only judge from what you see

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So why are they ''pie'' bookies bayman, in your opinion ?

[bayman]

So why are they ''pie'' bookies bayman, in your opinion ?

for 3 main reasons & not in any specific order, they would always just copy or be shorter than everyone else, they would always knock the bet down by half & always be last to open up & i'll add it was amazing that at some meetings some of them would bet win only & be shorter than those betting e/w, time to get lb to bed

[SCD]

So why are they ''pie'' bookies bayman, in your opinion ?

Any bookmaker who survives these days is a good bookmaker in my view - too hard a life...

There is however 1 only exception to that rule - a harness bookmaker.. Barry Baker..
I've been to Moonee Valley the last 3 - 4 weeks and just sat and watched and out of the 350 horses that have raced I would say at least 340 of them he had under the odds of the other 2 or 3 bookmakers and the other 10 or so were equal to the lowest being offered, not one over compared to the others..
He goes to the trots (with competition) and bets unders on every single runner compared to the others.. if he had the shorties short and a couple of roughies longer then the other guys - i'd say well at least he's saying he doesn't think these can win - but when the others are betting 130 - 140% and he's betting 180 - 190% that's a disgrace.... and worse then damarell who doesn't have competition!