Subway for Adelaide?

[Wedgie]

I wish they'd put a Subway near my place, Im getting sick of McDonalds.

[Psyber]

Subways are not for us devout and practising claustrophobes, but I guess they wouldn't leak in Adelaide as much as tunnels in Melbourne tend to. I could vote for a Transmat, but I think that might worry me too. So, I'll support the monorail so long as Homer isn't driving it.

[Coorong]

.but I guess they wouldn't leak in Adelaide as much as tunnels in Melbourne tend to...

Longest car wash in the world. But in all honesty we do have a pretty good road system, ring road, freeways, toll ways. Can get from Templestowe to the airport, city, Dandenong pretty quickly. The monash is a problem both ways, but the Mitcham to Frankston will be fantastic

[brent]

A subway network would cost billions. Literally. The state couldn't afford the debt.

Road civil works always seem to cost megabucks due to all the engineering design, planning, etc etc..... it always cracks me up when you see those signs on the side of the road where they have done a minor project like shoulder widening on a highway for about 1 km and it cost 16 million dollars or something astronomical. Imagine tunnelling under existing infrastructure for say, 5 lines to elizabeth, noarlunga, modbury, glenelg and norwood... i can't even begin to imagine the cost

[Punk Rooster]

Brent- we don't need to do anything for Elizabeth/Noarlunga/Glenelg- their system isalready in place. How many thousand pounds did that cost to set up though?
And we're still benefitting today from the foresight...

[brent]

punk, i think i might have misinterpreted your idea... so instead of the main arterials it would be more of an inner suburbs type thing? e.g. adelaide, norwood, north adelaide, maybe prospect, unley, etc.? would be pretty cool i gotta admit

personally i could see the possible benefit of an undeground bus terminal under grenfell/rundle a-la brisbane, with tunnels that resurface about 2km outside of town. it makes sense to get the hundreds of buses off grenfell/pirie/etc during peak hour. i used to catch the o-bahn every day during peak hour and more than 50% of the trip was getting from grenfell st to the o-bahn start only about 2 km away. if people knew they had a quick escape from the city centre then how attractive would that become? i guess this idea would be interchangeable with trains, just need to pay for track infrastructure aswell

i should note that i'm not saying that the 'o-bahn' model is the way to go, it has its positives and it has its negatives... its basically a glorified bus lane that costs 100 times as much...

but yeah i agree that SA's leaders need to have some sort of vision as to how the place will run in 50-100 years time, not just up until the end of their electoral term which seems to be the way it goes now. i don't know much about political history but i'm guessing you'd have to go back to dunstan to see a premier with an ounce of vision, someone else can argue that one for me

[Punk Rooster]

punk, i think i might have misinterpreted your idea... so instead of the main arterials it would be more of an inner suburbs type thing? e.g. adelaide, norwood, north adelaide, maybe prospect, unley, etc.? would be pretty cool i gotta admit

Yeah, more inner suburbs, but the planning of future extensions could be put in place also.
My opinion would be-
underground ring route to service the city- existing line from Railway Station through to East Tce (stopping at Frome Rd), next stop @ Hutt St/Wakefield St, with the line continuing down Wakefield St (stopping Eastern side of Vic Square- Gawler Pl?) & then next stop could be on Western side of Vic Square Grote St (servicing Central Markets/Bus Station), turning off at Morphett St (with a stop at Northern side of Light Sqaure) before connectring back into the rail system- the only casualty would probably be the Skate Park.

Now I say all this without the benefit of number crunching & any other other relative data- it's purely an option of servicing the city more efficiently (if indeed my suggesytion is).
At least they could one day extend the North Tce line through to Maren etc, the Hutt St could branch off to Glen Osmond Rd etc...

[mick]

A subway would be great, I lived in Berlin in the early 80s it has an extensive subway system, really no need to own a car, London is a similar situation. Other places I have been to like Prague and Athens have a relatively rudimentary system in comparison to London and Berlin. The thing is most cities that have subway systems were begun in the era of cheap labor 19th century and early 20th century, we have probably missed the bus so to speak. The greatest tragedy was that in the 1960s there was a plan for an extensive freeway system for Adelaide called the MATS plan, a lot land etc was aquired by the Playford government for this plan, unfortunately for us successive governments no longer had long term plans for the state that had bipartisan support, the land was sold off to balance the books, the country rail network was sold off and fell into decay. It is amazing to me how hard it is to get long term (3-4 electoral cycles) projects going here with the petty minded dickheads that inhabit the big grey marble building on North Terrace. In the 1980s we were so lucky that two brave parliamentarians had the guts to vote against idealogues in their own party that enabled the Roxby Downs mine to go ahead. Without this development this state would be on the bones of it's arse financially, ironically one of those who voted against Roxby, now leads the State. So unfortunately get used to the traffic getting worse and a mediocre public transport system

[Aerie]

A subway would be great if we were anything like London, Paris, Berlin, Rome or Sydney... but we're not. The eventual tram line looping around the city and hopefully extending up O'Connell Street and any other areas like The Parade will be great. I was in Bordeaux when they were installing their tram system only 4 years ago and they're a city with a population more like ours.

I've used the subways in London, Paris, Sydney and Rome and they're fantastic (well, except for when I got pickpocketed in Rome). However, they have a population that makes it viable to have a train going through every 5 minutes. I've also seen the mayhem when they have to close a line. The other good thing about trams is you get to see the city instead of being in a tunnel for most of your trip.

[Jimmy]

hahahah, a subway system in adelaide, oh geezuz!!!! this is gold!!!!!!!!

seriously, its not needed.

[Psyber]

:lol:

hahahah, a subway system in adelaide, oh geezuz!!!! this is gold!!!!!!!!

seriously, its not needed.

I tend to agree - I was back in Adelaide for a short time after Easter. Getting around by car was so easy, in the inner areas - I even picked up a park in the square near the RAA when I needed to walk into Rundle Mall, quite easily.

I expect rapid public transport from the deep south and far north suburbs may be issues though, but I would expect rail or light rail, or dedicated bus lanes, would do the job far more cheaply.

[MagicKiwi]

Thanks for your input those of you who don't live here anymore.

OK, now for the rest of us. Adelaide has the worst public transport system I've ever known. As someone who's commuted for many years, it's shit. I would love a subway but like most of us have said, it wouldn't happen.

I lived in London for two years and didn't need a car, have been on the Metro in Paris and the Subway in New York as well as whatever they call it in Barcelona. What a great way to get around, easy and quick. In a city the size of Adelaide, it should not take 45 minutes to travel the 7 kms I live away from the city to get in but my time is challenged by the bus route I have to travel. That's just me though, I'm sure there are worse stories.

[Psyber]

Thanks for your input those of you who don't live here anymore.

OK, now for the rest of us. Adelaide has the worst public transport system I've ever known. As someone who's commuted for many years, it's shit. I would love a subway but like most of us have said, it wouldn't happen.

I lived in London for two years and didn't need a car, have been on the Metro in Paris and the Subway in New York as well as whatever they call it in Barcelona. What a great way to get around, easy and quick. In a city the size of Adelaide, it should not take 45 minutes to travel the 7 kms I live away from the city to get in but my time is challenged by the bus route I have to travel. That's just me though, I'm sure there are worse stories.

Come off it - just because someone doesn't live there for now does not mean they can't know the place! I lived in Adelaide for 30 odd years and am still a frequent visitor as I have family and friends there. I was there for 2 weeks earlier this year, and expect to be again for part of September. I think I have a fairly current relationship with, and perception of, the place! I may even return there to live eventually, so I think I have a right to comment on my home city.

The huge cost of a subway system for the small population of users really does rule it out, and there are real limits on Adelaide's potential population growth dictated by its geography and prospective water supply. I hate to admit it as I was not one of his admirers, but Don Dunstan may have been right in wanting to curtail the sprawl by setting a limit on Adelaide's expansion for those reasons.

As for getting around the city, the last time I wanted to get from the corner of Pulteney St and South Tce to David Jones I just walked. It didn't take long.

I admit I haven't used anything but a car or taxi in Adelaide regularly since my Uni days when I lived at West Croydon and caught the train to the city daily, although I had 12 weeks without a driving licence in 1996 and bussed it between West Lakes and Gilberton regularly then. I think the trip involving two buses was about 35 minutes. I carried a book to read with me.

45 minutes to travel 8km! I am puzzled by that! That route must really zig zag! Perhaps the routes need re-assessing and there should be two direct routes through the area instead of one the tries to go everywhere. [ I worked "on the buses" at one time too.] Mind you it could take that long to drive 100metres down Toorak Rd here in peak traffic.

I admit north of Gepps Cross and south of Daws Road are areas I was never really familiar with, although I did own 10 acres at Craigmore once upon a time. I would think those areas would need some form of express service into the city as well as local services. I gather Mt Barker has become something of a dormitory suburb too and I don't know what the public transport from there is like now - it was hopeless when I lived near Hahndorf. But a subway won't help the people who live there, and their need may be greatest, unless it has improved a lot in the last 10 years.

[Booney]

Why do we need a subway?

We have a tram that goes from Glenelg to the Casino ,a city that closes on Sundays and weeknights at 5,and major shopping centre's North,South and West of the city.More so,other than work purposes,why would you go into town anyway?

[MagicKiwi]

Gee Pysber, I'm glad you're such a frequent visitor to your home city and an obvious authority on public transport having spent so much time on it in your uni days.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If we had a subway to service the inner city suburbs (leading to trains or whatever), I'm sure our small population would use it more than the ineffective bus transport system we have to rely on and what I've been catching for 30 years.

[Psyber]

Gee Pysber, I'm glad you're such a frequent visitor to your home city and an obvious authority on public transport having spent so much time on it in your uni days.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If we had a subway to service the inner city suburbs (leading to trains or whatever), I'm sure our small population would use it more than the ineffective bus transport system we have to rely on and what I've been catching for 30 years.

Fine! I never attempted to suggest you had no right to an opinion because you disagree with me...

I did use public transport exclusively for the first 20 years of my life, but accept my 20 years experience is dated.

You may be not so keen on the idea of a subway if the SA government decided to build one on the user pays principal, once you found out what your share would be. Most of the subway systems were bult when labour was cheap.

[Punk Rooster]

Psyber- labour 'aint getting cheaper!

My point is, it's about time we got "visionary"- imagine servicing Adelaide Oval/North Adelaide/Entertainment Centre/Footy Park via tram/subway... Melbourne moves 90,000 out of the MCG in minutes

[smac]

The more I have thought about this, the more I am beginning to agree with you punky (keep that in mind preparing my quote too mate ).

Surely the number of cars we currently have coming in and out of the city with only 1 or 2 people in them is a concern? I live only 6 kms from my office (which is in the city) yet I drive in with mrs smac each day. If there were an underground public transport system then my public transport travel time would not be 35 minutes (as it would be now, I currently drive in and out in 15). Surely the farther out people live, the more use an efficient transport system would get. Underground services to the inner suburbs - Norwood, Cowandilla, Goodwood and Medindie perhaps - would streamline operations considerably.

[Psyber]

Hmmm... my reservations are only on a cost versus population of users basis, and my suspicion that further population growth will be relatively slow in Adelaide. Otherwise I think it is a nice idea, and I agree if it does ever become really needed then the sooner the better because you are right punky - labour only gets more expensive with time, while materials have tended to get cheaper.

Melbourne has a much larger population, and the impact of many more people converging on the 'G for example means surface and underground facilities are both needed. Inner Melbourne is well supplied for transport, but the improvements are slow extending to outer regions, and my concern is that in the outer regions of both cities the deficits may be greater.

As I said in an earlier post I am a little claustrophobic myself, and I have only used the underground here once. I can use it, I just don't like it. And the leaking traffic tunnels don't encourage me to - it appears cost cutting may make it cost more to fix later.

My wife has used the London underground once and the Metro in Paris several times. She was happy in Paris, but felt unsafe in London and stuck to buses thereafter, not because of the infrastructure, but because of the scary nature of the denizens in London, and the lack of Police to ensure safety.

Getting assaulted and robbed at some railway stations in Melbourne seems to be a high risk too - again related to the lack of attendants.