by The Ash Man » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:35 pm
by Pag » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:31 pm
woodublieve12 wrote:locky801 wrote:Now they have moved the no scoring module up to and including U11's for the upcoming season so presume they are going with what was said a couple of seasons ago that they would eventually take it up to and include U13's
Personally i think it is crap, few people on the wireless this morning not happy about it either
Any kid at any age will always ask and want to know if they won or lost... Winning and losing and how you handle them are great life lessons to learn. Taking that away doesn't benefit them, i believe its vital learning tool which is getting taken away from them...
when you lose you learn...
by giffo » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:44 pm
woodublieve12 wrote:locky801 wrote:Now they have moved the no scoring module up to and including U11's for the upcoming season so presume they are going with what was said a couple of seasons ago that they would eventually take it up to and include U13's
Personally i think it is crap, few people on the wireless this morning not happy about it either
by Lightning McQueen » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 am
giffo wrote:Most of the time they can tell you what the score was even without a scoreboard!
by cracka » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:03 am
by Spangas » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:20 am
Pag wrote:This isn't just in footy or sport by the way, all aspects of society.
by Jetters » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:05 pm
by Bluedemon » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:04 pm
Jetters wrote:Do people really think these rules are about winning and losing?
These rules are surely more about the attitude of coaches. As soon as there is a scoreboard and premiership table too many adult coaches think it's their chance to be Malcolm Blight, play the biggest kid in the centre for 4 qtrs, the smallest on the bench or in the forward pocket and the focus goes away from kids' development and to winning flags.
Everyone knows everyone knows the score, the people who make these rules knows everyone knows the score. It's not about kids being protected from winning and losing, it's about ensuring coaches focus on the kids' development as footballers.
by locky801 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:42 pm
Jetters wrote:Do people really think these rules are about winning and losing?
These rules are surely more about the attitude of coaches. As soon as there is a scoreboard and premiership table too many adult coaches think it's their chance to be Malcolm Blight, play the biggest kid in the centre for 4 qtrs, the smallest on the bench or in the forward pocket and the focus goes away from kids' development and to winning flags.
Everyone knows everyone knows the score, the people who make these rules knows everyone knows the score. It's not about kids being protected from winning and losing, it's about ensuring coaches focus on the kids' development as footballers.
by The Informer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:31 am
Jetters wrote:Do people really think these rules are about winning and losing?
These rules are surely more about the attitude of coaches. As soon as there is a scoreboard and premiership table too many adult coaches think it's their chance to be Malcolm Blight, play the biggest kid in the centre for 4 qtrs, the smallest on the bench or in the forward pocket and the focus goes away from kids' development and to winning flags.
Everyone knows everyone knows the score, the people who make these rules knows everyone knows the score. It's not about kids being protected from winning and losing, it's about ensuring coaches focus on the kids' development as footballers.
by Pag » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:20 pm
If the players know the score, then obviously coach does too. If the players still want to win, so will the coaches. Can't imahgine it's going to change too much coaching behaviour.20 Zip wrote:Jetters wrote:Do people really think these rules are about winning and losing?
These rules are surely more about the attitude of coaches. As soon as there is a scoreboard and premiership table too many adult coaches think it's their chance to be Malcolm Blight, play the biggest kid in the centre for 4 qtrs, the smallest on the bench or in the forward pocket and the focus goes away from kids' development and to winning flags.
Everyone knows everyone knows the score, the people who make these rules knows everyone knows the score. It's not about kids being protected from winning and losing, it's about ensuring coaches focus on the kids' development as footballers.
And we have a winner, finally someone posts on exactly why these rules were brought into place.
Couldn't have said it any better.
by beef » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:01 pm
by Lightning McQueen » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:30 am
Jetters wrote:Do people really think these rules are about winning and losing?
These rules are surely more about the attitude of coaches. As soon as there is a scoreboard and premiership table too many adult coaches think it's their chance to be Malcolm Blight, play the biggest kid in the centre for 4 qtrs, the smallest on the bench or in the forward pocket and the focus goes away from kids' development and to winning flags.
Everyone knows everyone knows the score, the people who make these rules knows everyone knows the score. It's not about kids being protected from winning and losing, it's about ensuring coaches focus on the kids' development as footballers.
by gadj1976 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:55 pm
by beef » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:21 pm
gadj1976 wrote:I think to say that 'coaches are the reason for the changes' is limiting the issue at best.
It's coaches, the SANFL, parents and society that are the cause of the changes in my opinion.
There are some coaches at U6's, 7's , 8's and 9's that have played certain kids in certain positions to 'win'. There are many many more coaches in higher junior grades that play kids in all positions for experience.
The SANFL are blaming burn out for players not playing at 'older' junior grades. Whilst I don't understand the logic, the move has been more about participation and enjoyment rather than 'win at all costs'. Hence bringing in zones into the older sub junior grades. The focus tends to be about player retention.
Parents (some parents) and society - well they're generally opposites. Some parents also have the win at all costs and if the coaches aren't pushing their kids to have the killer mentality, then they'll "never get anywhere". Society in general is more aligned with the SANFL where winning doesn't matter.
The confusing part for me is that my son plays school basketball and indoor soccer where the scores are kept. Cricket, we keep score (given he's playing U12s as a 9yo) and he keeps score at footy 'because no one else does'. There is no consistency, so I'm more inclined to think this is driven by the SANFL. Which is fine, I wish they'd be open and honest along the way.
I don't think the kids should be penalised because of a few rogue coaches. Someone above said that "clubs shouldn't let them coach". Well mate, if you'd like to put your hand up at our club, come on board. We generally don't have enough people, so it's difficult for most clubs to be choosy about who coaches and who doesn't. Yes, we do monitor what goes on but generally speaking we're dealt the cards before we even know what's going on.
EDIT: Ahh, it's @beef....see you at pre-season! ;-)
My question would be; would it make a difference to my son, or someone else's son or daughter's enjoyment if they knew the score? Probably yes. and this is where the argument circles back on itself because if the coaches have ego's (and some do) they coach to win at all costs. Anyway, for me, it's not about winning U9 'premierships' its about developing the players to play A grade at your club. Tough one....thoughts?
by Iron Fist » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:22 pm
by gadj1976 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:25 pm
beef wrote:gadj1976 wrote:I think to say that 'coaches are the reason for the changes' is limiting the issue at best.
It's coaches, the SANFL, parents and society that are the cause of the changes in my opinion.
There are some coaches at U6's, 7's , 8's and 9's that have played certain kids in certain positions to 'win'. There are many many more coaches in higher junior grades that play kids in all positions for experience.
The SANFL are blaming burn out for players not playing at 'older' junior grades. Whilst I don't understand the logic, the move has been more about participation and enjoyment rather than 'win at all costs'. Hence bringing in zones into the older sub junior grades. The focus tends to be about player retention.
Parents (some parents) and society - well they're generally opposites. Some parents also have the win at all costs and if the coaches aren't pushing their kids to have the killer mentality, then they'll "never get anywhere". Society in general is more aligned with the SANFL where winning doesn't matter.
The confusing part for me is that my son plays school basketball and indoor soccer where the scores are kept. Cricket, we keep score (given he's playing U12s as a 9yo) and he keeps score at footy 'because no one else does'. There is no consistency, so I'm more inclined to think this is driven by the SANFL. Which is fine, I wish they'd be open and honest along the way.
I don't think the kids should be penalised because of a few rogue coaches. Someone above said that "clubs shouldn't let them coach". Well mate, if you'd like to put your hand up at our club, come on board. We generally don't have enough people, so it's difficult for most clubs to be choosy about who coaches and who doesn't. Yes, we do monitor what goes on but generally speaking we're dealt the cards before we even know what's going on.
EDIT: Ahh, it's @beef....see you at pre-season! ;-)
My question would be; would it make a difference to my son, or someone else's son or daughter's enjoyment if they knew the score? Probably yes. and this is where the argument circles back on itself because if the coaches have ego's (and some do) they coach to win at all costs. Anyway, for me, it's not about winning U9 'premierships' its about developing the players to play A grade at your club. Tough one....thoughts?
Everyone knows clubs struggle with junior coaches and volunteers but some clubs ignore the fact the coach they have appointed is wrong and let him/her continue being a knob because "no one else wants to do it". Personally i think they should keep score and i think they lose as many kids/parents as they get for not keeping score and everyone getting a participation trophy. Also my own coaching preseason starts tonight so maybe i will take you up on your offer next season.
by gadj1976 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:02 pm
Iron Fist wrote:What Pag wrote is pretty much spot on I reckon. There must be scores allowed so the kids can learn how to lose.
You also raised a very valid point Gadj that alot of clubs dont have the luxury of choosing a coach that isnt all about winning, problem for alot of clubs is that if that person doesnt coach then there isnt a team.
One issue I see that the SANFL is causing is that clubs can have multiple sides in each age group while other clubs in the same area are struggling to fill one side. In this happening, children that play at these clubs with to many players, the kids arent able to get a full game each week. Or the club may stack one side with the the better players and one side with the not as good (or less developed) players. Surely thats not good for a childs development.
I personally think that each club should only be able to have one side in each age group and limit the number of kids to say 30-32. In turn all clubs would then be able to have a healthy number of players and kids would have a better chance of developing.
It would also help local football as a whole as each club would have a good number of junior players filtering up into the senior sides.
Currently what is happening is the good get better and the average get weaker.
This was how alot of us would have grown up playing football and it worked then so I dont understand why they changed it.
by Dutchy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:06 pm
Iron Fist wrote:What Pag wrote is pretty much spot on I reckon. There must be scores allowed so the kids can learn how to lose.
You also raised a very valid point Gadj that alot of clubs dont have the luxury of choosing a coach that isnt all about winning, problem for alot of clubs is that if that person doesnt coach then there isnt a team.
One issue I see that the SANFL is causing is that clubs can have multiple sides in each age group while other clubs in the same area are struggling to fill one side. In this happening, children that play at these clubs with to many players, the kids arent able to get a full game each week. Or the club may stack one side with the the better players and one side with the not as good (or less developed) players. Surely thats not good for a childs development.
I personally think that each club should only be able to have one side in each age group and limit the number of kids to say 30-32. In turn all clubs would then be able to have a healthy number of players and kids would have a better chance of developing.
It would also help local football as a whole as each club would have a good number of junior players filtering up into the senior sides.
Currently what is happening is the good get better and the average get weaker.
This was how alot of us would have grown up playing football and it worked then so I dont understand why they changed it.
by scottroo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:26 pm
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